Carless driving ticket for acclerating to fast??
 

I got a carless driving citation in miami beach 316.1925 for accelrating too fast even though i didnt even chirp the tires or exceeed the speed limit. The officer thought i was racing another car. I havent had a ticket in almost 2 years , should i take this to court or is it a losing battle?? I really dont wanna lose points, my insurance is high enough as it is. Im considering traffic school but u only get 5 lifetime and im on my 3rd already and would like to save it for an actual speeding offense.

been there done that pay the ticket and go to traffic school to avoid the points . thats my:twocents: good luck

Why wait, go to school now. Isn't this ticket the same as a speeding ticket.

NO! Although it's been a while, I believe it carries the same point value, most insurance companies view it differently.

Personally, I'd fight it, but then again, thats me. Speed? If I'm speeding, I'm speeding. Suck it up and pay it.

Careless is and always has been a "catch all" violation unfortunately used to liberally by some to lazy or pissed off to cite the correct statute:(

316.1925 Careless driving” clearly states:

“316.1925 Careless driving.--

(1) Any person operating a vehicle upon the streets or highways within
the state shall drive the same in a careful and prudent manner, having
regard for the width, grade, curves, corners, traffic, and all other
attendant circumstances, so as not to endanger the life, limb, or
property of any person. Failure to drive in such manner shall
constitute careless driving and a violation of this section.”

FLORIDA STATUTES
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/ind...316/ch0316.htm

(taken from a google answer page)

Did your actions "endanger" anyone?

YOur case "should" be dismissed in court if not before.

Some jurisdictions will allow the state to amend the charge in court, others won't.

I'd give it a shot.

The biggest thing you have working against you is your previous driving history (based upon you statement).

That should only be viewed by the court during the "sentencing" phase if they get that far. Can't guarantee it always happens that way, but it should.

There are several good ticket mill firms in your area that specialize in traffic defense. Might want to contact one of them. The overall cost may end up the same (or higher) but the violations goes away, the points don't show and your resulting insurance premiums dont get jacked! Thats worth a lot more in the long run IMHO:thumbsup:

its the same points as speeding, but i was thinking of taking it to court and maybe i can get off just paying the tick with no points. That way i can save the traffic school for a real speeding ticket. The judge might show mercy on me since i wasnt speeding and the officer made a judgement call that i was racing when in fact the other car made a right turn and just happened to accelereate fast also.

Thanks, i might just do that. In fact theres a place called ticket busters that a few buddys of mine have used to much success. I ll let u guys know how i do.

Sounds like a law that has too much leeway based on OPINION, rather that provable facts. I'd fight it. Ask the officer to provide FACTS proving your guilt.

This sure is discouraging to hear :mad: Since I am still waiting on the outcome of my speeding ticket(first hearing was yesterday)I have been making due with brief bursts of acceleration only, always under the speed limit. Now I find out I can get a ticket for that also.:banghead:

Starting to wonder what is the point of having a Vette. Just kidding I love me car but it sure is discouraging.

I want to fight it sooo bad!! But knowing how the system works, I whole heartidly feel its going to just be a losing battle for one simple fact. At the time i had a tuner pluged in and was datalogging and he asked what it was. When i told him it was a tuner and i was logging diagnostics, he wrote on the ticket in the comments "tuner in car- improper (something, i cant make out its not legible and then) racing". He told me i was lucky getting off with just careless and that he could of cited me for drag racing and a couple of other offenses. Lucky for me i kept my seltbelt on or that probably would have been another ticket also. The judge is just going to read tuner and racing and nothing i say after that is going to sway him, especially since racers, mostly sport bikes have been getting a really bad rep around here recently. The officer even told me to tack it to the track if i want to race and said his streets (even though ive been a resident of miami beach for almost 8 years now, but supposidly its his not ours) were not a drag strip. Then he gave me a lecture about deadly crashes, mostly bikes, occouring on an almost nightly basis, which i am more than aware of.

This incident combined with the ridiculous price of gas has just convinved me of what i need to do to avoid going thru this again and ruining my driving record. I am going to buy the best car cover money can buy and retiring my babay from daily use. Instead im going to look for a used or new econimical car or hybrid for my daily driver and only take the v8 to the track. This is my only choice since selling it is not an option. Now i just need to start looking into road courses open to the public in Florida, since ive never been to the track in my whole life. I know Morrosso has a road course, how difficult is it to get on and how expensive?? Also where else can i go?

Oh by the way, as most of you guys know this was my first post on this forum. I just realized what a horrible first impression I must have made lol. I also have a confession to make, and Im sure Im going to recieve alot of flak for it, but honesty is the best policy and from the post Ive read so far, theres alot of open minded and tolerant people on this forum. ok here goes...

I dont own a Corvette and never have, I currently drive an 07 Dodge Charger srt8. So your probably thinking what the hell am i doing on a Vette forum, well soon as i got home after receiving the ticket, I googled it to see if i can get some sort of advice to determine if i stand any kind of fighting chance. For some reason this forum came up and I was really impressed by some of the responses and advice some of u have given to previous posts. Im a big fan of all muscle cars regardless of manufacturer and have always loved to own a vette, especially the sting ray and z06, but unfortuntaley my financial status has never allowed me to do so. Instead i decided to buy a used srt8 in black which i found at a reasonably cheap price last year and since it has four doors it is the perfect balance of muscle car and grocery getter, i also sold my hood scoop and rear spoiler a week after purchase to maintain a low profile thinking it would avoid negative attention from the cops. Since then the mod bug bit me and i have done everything from long tube headers, cams, heads, tuner and street drag radials. I have too much money invested to sell and the market for v8s is in shamble right now. I want to drive it, but the temptation to speed is too great and the consequences are starting to become too dangerous, especially knowing that you can be arrested at the discreption of the police officer and not only that, I dont want to put innocent people at risk for my adrenaline rush.

I really hope theres alternatives out there where i can get on the track at least twice a month for a reasonable cost, cars are my passion and i would probably become clinically depressed if i didnt hear that sweet purr from my Hemi every once in a while. If worst comes to worst i am even considered applying for citizenship in Germany as a worst case scenario. Its hard to concieve that in the land of the free, we have no open highways like the Autobahn. I love My country with all my heart, but we are sadly headed in the wrong direction and after visting Europe 3 years ago, I realized how far backwards our country is becoming. I met a girl from Estonia that used to live in Russia and she said that she was shocked at how little freedom we have after she vistied here for a whole month. She said that all her friends in Estonia think we are a bunch of braindead idiots that never question anything and go along with every stupid law our government comes up with. She even had a picture book of pictures she took of warnings on stuff like the Mcdonalds coffee "dangerous contents are hot" and vending machines "rocking machine can cause serious injury or death". I had to explain how these were put on these to avoid lawsuits and how The U.S. has more lawyers than the rest of the world combined.

50% of the Autobahn in germany is strictly enforced for speed limits(even more ruthlessly than some parts of Florida beleive it or not) but the system rocks, they base your ticket amount on your current base salary, so it affects everyone the same. Here a rich guy can get a ticket for speeding and its just chump change for him so essentially the rich has a free pass to speed, but in germany i saw a reallly really rich guy in a Porsche get a $20,000 ticket for tailgating lol. Whoever came up with that law is a genius, too bad we dont have that lawmaking common sense here! Instead of raising the penalties even more and making speeding violations a jailable offense that takes up even more space and cost the courts a ridicuous amount of taxpayer money when that moeny could be put to better use to deal with the current crisis, the state could subsidize more local tracks and sponsor driving clinics that teach people how to really drive instead of requiring people to memorize a test. I die a little bit inside everytime i hear a story of how police departments and private corporations are robbing its citizens of its hard earned money by decreasing timing on yellow lights on red light cameras to earn a profit, even when its been proven that this increases rear end accidents and a better solution is to actually increase yellows to prevent fatal crashes. This country is losing its middle class and the thing that made us so great,because politicians only look out for the interest of themselves and their rich buddies. Sorry if this has turned into a rant, but i needed to vent a little lol ok im ready to return to my modding state of mind lol

No man..... Data logging software is also used (often PRIMARILY used) for diagnostic purposes in order to gather data to FIX problems. Dealerships use the equivalent ALL of the time, and is considered to be invaluable for troubleshooting. If you have an issue that only shows up during acceleration, then data logging DURING acceleration is the only way to detect, then fix that problem. You were doing nothing more nor less than any competent dealership technician would do under the same circumstances.

Don't let some modern day Wyatt Earp wannabe take away your enjoyment of driving your car. Make him PROVE his claims in court. Not just toss out some half baked suppositions and assumptions that he can't back up with hard data. MAKE him show data indicating how rapidly you got from point A to point B and how fast you were going at the time. If he doesn't have PROOF, then he doesn't have a case. Matter of fact, since you were apparently data logging with your tuning software, YOU do, in fact have PROOF to show to the judge. That data should show everything you need in order to prove your case. It SHOULD show engine RPM, throttle positioning, and vehicle speed related to time. ALL of those factors will indicate your acceleration at the time the officer claims you were violating HIS (possibly flawed) interpretation of the law.

You are probably right and I appreciate your advice, but I just dont have the heart to stomach this and i really cant afford court cost and fees if i end up losing. Plus if i dont win, im going to become so bitter at the system that theres no telling what i might do. Im just going to work with the system and do the whole driving school crap again and snooze thru those 4 hours and just be content with the peace of mind that my insurance wont go up. If all goes toplan. this will be the last time I get a ticket, since im going to be going green and slow, I refuse funding police departments that put revenue first over human compassion. I know its going to suck driving a lil v4 everyday and im probably going to have an estrogen imbalance as a result of it, but driving my v8 everyday is just going to be too much of a temptation to accelerate fast and nothisn sadder than a muscle car in the slow lane.

Can anyone please suggest some clubs or track nights, anything or anywhere i can speed worry free and legally. I'll sell my apartment and buy a vette if i have too!!! please, anyone????

What makes him a Wyatt Earp wannabe? Thats the kind of cop bashing that the other boards do... I am pretty disappointed to hear it from you Rich. His interpretation of the action was that it was serious enough to warrant a citation. Whay does he have to be some sort of gung ho cop to write it? The laws the law, no matter who you are, or what you drive. I am waiting to hear more about "He cited me because I was driving a Vette and he was jealous"... Oh wait, the poster headed that one off by clearing up the air and telling us he had a Hemi instead of a Vette... I think the original poster kept it very civil, yet you took it to a new level....... :thumbsdown:

His observations are his proof. There is no requirement or law or even a recomendation by the courts to say that the violation, no matter what the violation is, has to be on video. Thats the only HARD PROOF I can think of you demanding he show the original poster. he officer took an oath to uphold the law. I know there are bad apples in every job in the world, but just because the officer wrote a citation doesn't mean he's corrupt, or out to get the average joe, or trying to make a quota.... for cripes sake... It gets friggin old.. REAL old!!!

OBEY THE LAW
 

THE LAWS WERE MADE TO PROTEC US . IN YOUR CASE GET A LAWYER AND GET HIS ADVISED AND WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE PUSHING THE CAR AGAIN , BE READY FOR ANY CONSEQUENCES. THERE ARE TRACK IN FLORIDA WHERE YOU CAN PUSH 150 OR BETTER AND THERE WILL BE NO TICKETS . AND REMENBER PEOPLE WRECKLESS DRIVING CAN BE CROSSING YOUR LANE AND GETTING BACK INTO YOUR LANE.CHECK OUT MOROSSO TRACK NOT FAR FROM YOU

I accelerated from 0-30 at 2:30am with not a single pedestrian anywhere near me in the middle lane of a 3 lane road. Soon as i reached 30 i let off or else he would of gotten me for speeding. Is this considered pushing my car and would i have recieved a verbal warning if he hadnt seen the tuner connected to my car i was using for data logging. Was it neccessary to write "tuner in car-racing" and for those non believers i will scan the ticket and post it, i am not trying to make cops look bad. I admit to doing a lot of things i should have gotten tickets for but this was definatley not one of them. also if i did something so bad why did the officer follow me for 5 blocks before pulling me over, did he expect i was going to speed and when i didnt pulled me over anyways, because thats the impressions i got.

Your right many laws are made to protect us, but many are also written under the disguise of saftey but in reality are created to generate revenue. Im a firm beleiver that if the gov passed a law where all ticket revenue was invested back into the community to build safer roads and create safe driving programs like in germany, non of this would happen and cops would instead focus on the truly dangerous drivers posing a legitimate risk to drivers and themselves.

YOU WHEN 5 BLOCK B-4 HE PULLED YOU OVER BECAUSE HE WAS LOOKING FOR ANY SIGN OF DUI ALSO HE PROBABLY WAS LOOKING FOR A SAFE PLACE FOR BOTH YOU AND HIM ,MIAMI HAS BAD PLACES . AT 2.30 AM THE ARE LOOKINF FOR ANY MINOR INFRACTION TO PULL ANY THERE ARE TO MANY DRUNK DRIVERS OUT THERE AT THAT TIME OF THE NITE. IT IS ALL FOR ARE OWN GOOD. MY KID WAS GIVING 5 TICKETS B-4 HE LEARN HIS LESSON . MY ADVISED GET A TRAFFIC LAWYER ADVISED. ALSO CHECK THE TRACK IN HOMESTEAD . OR THERE IS SOUTH BEACH AND CORAL GABLES WHERE YOU JUST PARADE AT 10 MILES AN HOURS TO CHECK OUT THE SITES AND SHOW OFF YOUR CAR. DONT FORGET THE MIRACLE MILE. :lmao::lmao:

Lot of good info here and I thank the OP for "clearing the air:thumbsup:"

I too am a fan of any well built muscle car, regardless of age, make or model. Hell, I even appreciate some of the ricers when they're done right:thumbsup:

I don't want to see "cop bashing" either. I don't think that's where Rich was coming from, regardless of how it sounded. I've known him for some time now and spent a decent bit of time talking with him in person. There's not a cop hater bone in his body.

If you read some of my responses to police related matters you'd think I was adamantly opposed to the police and authority. Instead it's 180 degrees from it. But I do believe in doing the job correctly and professionally and I'll be the first one to nail a renegade offier. No use for them at all:thumbsdown:

I'll also be the 1st one out of the car to assist you in an arrest when you're on a lonly stretch of highway, to slow down and check on you when you by yourself on a stop or FIR, and to come to your defense when some citizen starts running thier yap about things they know nothing about:thumbsup:

Speaking from many years of experience, as several have mentioned, there are bad apples everywhere. We have them as do doctors, lawyers and well, you name it?

And again as mentioned, the "proof" is in fact the officers observations. I'd almost like to see mandatory video cams in all partol cars and have the tapes made part of the ticket package.

1) The first thing it would do is rid us of the BS tickets and the "trumped up" charges (yes, they do exist albeit rarely).
2) Next it would reduce the back log in the courts. When people know they are on tape, it's higly unlikely they're going to continue to desire a court date just to have thier asses handed to them:lmao:

3) On the occasion that a driver is innocent of the charge, which "IF" the "facts" are as the OP states, then that too would be immediately evident.

Easy cases to dispose of from either side and less wasted time and officer OT. That goes more toward keeping the budgets in line:thumbsup:

The "tuner" is as Rich said and you can bring that "fact" up in court if the tuner is brought into question. Here's the rub...if I were the judge or magistrate, the next question would be....why are you "testing" your car on a public street. I'd have to go back and review the chapter, but that may be a part of the "racing" statute. If so, you're screwed again.

In this matter, I'd either do as you plan (not a bad plan either:thumbsup:) or hire one of the ticket lawyers to handle it for you and move on.

BTW...I love the Hemi's:thumbsup:If I could justify one as a DD I'd have one. Lots of room, good looks and reasonable performance...and you can actually get **** in and out of them without being a contortionist:rofl1:

Lets keep things on point please, stay focused on the facts and keep the opinions to those that can either be supported or at least keep them civil:thumbsup:

And please, no cop bashing:NoNo:LEts leave that to some of the other websites...they're better at it:lmao::lmao:

Calling into question the actions of a cop is not cop bashing. It is expressing my opinions of the details that were provided here. Which, if I'm not mistaken, I am fully entitled to do. Please correct me if I am mistaken.... Granted, I am only hearing one side of the story, but in any court (official or otherwise) a judge in a similar circumstance would preface the judgement rendered in a similar case with "lacking any contrary evidence...".

So are you SERIOUSLY trying to feed me the line that cops don't get attitudes that are unwarranted and/or misplaced? That they don't make MISTAKES in interpretting a situation? That they are not human and have bad days which cause them to make bad calls or even MALICIOUS calls when enforcing laws? Well if that is the case, then I fear you are severely limited in your perspective and interpretation of the REAL world.

The "evidence" presented here was that someone merely accelerated up to the speed limit. He states he did not burn rubber or exceed the speed limit. He stated that he had a tuner attached to his car and the officer made a judgement largely based on that particular circumstantial evidence. Quite frankly, how can anyone accelerate up to ANY legal speed limit in a dangerous or careless fashion without burning rubber? For that matter, what the hell does "careless" even mean in this instance? The driver could care less how quickly he got to the speed limit? Well hell, that covers nearly ALL of us every time we drive.

I call BS on that one. No law gives the power to the enforcer of such law that of a "can do no wrong" level of competence. Any cop who causes someone to have to appear in court because of their "observation" should be able to PROVE their case. Saying "it appeared to me" or "my observation indicated" is NOT proof, and more or less then the defendant making the same claim in their defense.

I believe that ANY defendant in court has the right to require PROOF from the prosecution. Proof is what makes a court of law work the way it is supposed to. Hearsay or ad hoc observations and assumptions have no place in a court where someone is on trial for an offense of any sort, whether it is civil or criminal in nature.

And as for the "oath to uphold the law", certainly you are not suggesting that this is some sort of commandment from GOD that absolutely prevents an officer from stretching the truth or making a mistake in judgement? Are you seriously suggesting that each and every officer of the law who takes such an oath absolutely and 100 percent without fail upholds that oath?

Hell, I would highly suspect that each and everyone here at one time or another has been subjected to the actions of an officer of the law that were not exactly in line with their "oath" and quite likely the results of some personal issue that was clouding their professional judgement.

This is NOT cop bashing. This is DISCUSSING the issue of anyone in the capacity to hold that trust of the people to enforce the laws evenly, fairly, and LEGALLY to do so as a professional and fails to do so based on some likely personal issue, misinterpretation of the law, or otherwise over extend their authority to the detriment of those people they are entrusted to serve and protect.

Sorry, but I do not give cops (or anyone, for that matter) a carte blanche merely because of the job they have taken. I do recognize the trials and tribulations the job entails for them, but that does NOT excuse any that flaunt the power of their job and lose focus of the responsibility that authority places on them.

If YOU consider that as cop bashing, then that is YOUR observation and opinion, not necessarily having anything at all to do with FACT. I'm simply exercising MY right to call a spade a spade, based on the evidence I have viewed. You may interpret it differently, and more power to you if that is the case. But don't come here on THIS site bashing on ME because of YOUR own contrary opinion.

Actually when the dealerships put on the Tech2 on the diagnostic port on your car in order to diagnose problems, that is EXACTLY what they do. They take the car out on public roads for a test drive. This is not anything unusual or abnormal at all. I mean, how else would you do it? If you come in to a dealership claiming you have a miss or stumble during acceleration, how else would they diagnose the problem?

Every time I have had something fixed on any of my vehicles or modifications done, I fully believe that my car was afterwards taken out on public roads for a "test drive". Which was to do what? And whether the tech used the Tech 2, HPtuners, EFIlive or their own experience base to try to diagnose a problem, the methodology and the public roads used during the exercise were the same. Hell, I've used HPtuners to track down an intermittent problem with my MAF and IAT sensors. And yes it was done on public roads and NO I was not violating any laws at the time I was doing the troubleshooting. Actually there really is no other way in order to do that sort of troubleshooting.

So why would someone using any sort of tuner be considered as de facto evidence of wrong doing?

All I can say is take it to court. I'd like to see how this one turns out. But, as others have said, get a lawyer or be prepared to pay up to $500.00 in court cost, plus the original fine. I imagine the cost will be about the same either way.

:thumbsup::iagree:

A dynomometer is an interesting tool;)


Maybe you were, maybe you wern't, but it would be a matter of interpretation.

I fully understand what you're saying and I know full well that this is exactly what takes place most of the time. What I'm saying is there is no provision in Florida Statute for the "testing" of a vehicle on a public road...period.

If...and I say "IF" the OP was merely moving forward at a "normal" rate of speed, say with other traffic, then it wouldn't draw attention. "If" the intermittant miss or stumble was during accelleration, then take it to an on ramp to an interstate and test it there:thumbsup:

I'm not saying the OP was wrong just that what he describes leaves too much room for "interpretation" on the part of the LEO on scene. Without video documentation, it's your word against his/hers.


It's not and I'm sure the magistrate would see that. If not, then it needs to be brought out. But the fact still remains that a lot of street racers keep laptops and other "diagnostic equipment" in thier cars when preparing for or during a race. Thats a given that even a first year LEO knows:thumbsup:

So tell me, how many new car dealerships do you know of that have dynos in their shop? :hehehe:

So take your car to a dealership and tell them you have a hesitation upon acceleration and then tell me how they try to diagnose the problem.

Granted. Just as I also believe there is nothing in the Florida Statutes that plainly states that as long as someone does not break the law, someone cannot use diagnostic equipment on public highways in order to troubleshoot an issue with their vehicle. ;)

So is it against the law, for instance, for someone to go from 0 to 30 mph in first gear, thereby winding up the engine and perhaps SOUNDING like the car is "racing"? Specifically, how quickly can someone accelerate from 0 to 30 mph "legally"? Heck, for that matter, I'm not really certain of the source of such information, but the specs on muscle cars generally released from the manufacturers will quote such statistics as the acceleration from 0 to 60 to be used as a comparison with competing brands. So let's say that the Z06 can accelerate from 0 to 60 in 4 seconds. Is this a statistic for comparison that is actually ILLEGAL to do on a public road where the speed limit is 60 mph? Or is there some law that states specifically that someone can ONLY accelerate to a given speed NO LESS than a certain stated time limit?

Stuff like this just cannot be TOTALLY at the discretion of the officer observing the incident. If a law is on the books that can cause someone to be fined or otherwise penalized LEGALLY, then it cannot be so overly broad and so vague in definition that someone doesn't have any way to know that what they are doing is actually illegal. What such laws do, in reality, is to give a LEO the capability of being able to enforce a law AT A WHIM without the person engaged in such activity having any POSSIBILITY of knowing beforehand that the activity they were intent to engage in could possibly be considered illegal. Which fosters and promotes ABUSE by a LEO so inclined, plain and simple. It gives an officer, who perhaps is just having a bad day and wanting to target SOMEONE (anyone!) as the focus of blowing off steam, a "law" that basically allows them to "get" someone on "something", because it is so vague and ludicrously defined that it actually has no real meaning. And as such, it provides no manner at all for any FACTS or EVIDENCE to be entered in either the prosecution or the defense in court other than the officer simply "observed" the defendant engaged in something that the officer is "interpreting" as being in violation of some vaguely worded and defined "law".

A law that states going OVER 30 mph is against the law is clearly defined and easily provable as being a violation based on evidence the officer can provide. The driver is fully aware of the law, and has the ability to avoid violating that law via their own purposeful actions. The violation is for WILLFULLY violating a plainly stated law. On the other hand, a citation based on the claim that someone accelerated too rapidly in the officer's "opinion", with no factual data to be used as a yardstick of willful violation, is pure BS, in my opinion.

This is completely irrelevant. The foundation of law is the premise that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. It would be much like claiming that anyone who buys a ski mask must therefore be immediately arrested because they have obvious intentions (to the LEO) of being a mugger, based on such an item being in common usage for such an activity.

Hold up, you're from Miami and asking this question? Come on man, Ticket Clinic is $60 in Miami-Dade. Pay them the $60 and kiss the ticket good-bye.

What were you thinking anyway? Cops on Miami Beach give tickets for "cruisin'". Just knowing that, you should always be cognesant of them everywhere and not do anything to get their attention.

That is such a brilliant concept!!!!! How would someone go about campaigning that to become a legitimate bill to be voted on? So many people i know are disgusted with the current system we have, not only this topic but many things i could go on for days ranting about. I have heard several genius ideas that would help alieviate many problems our socitey deals with on a daily basis, but no one actually goes out and does anything about it. I guess in a way its pretty musch useless to even waste time trying to achieve the impossible, when I know that the immense pull the lawyers in this country have on our lawmakers would prevent this from ever happeneing. Theres way too much money on the line for them to lose if this was to ever become a law. Just imagine how many ticket busting law firms would go under the day after this thing gets passed. But then again, if countys can ticket us using cameras, then why shouldnt police officers require the infraction caught on tape as well. If we cant be tried by a jury of ours peers for an infraction, at least have proof beyond a doubt in the form of a video, before you can coerce someone to pay you their hard earned cash, at least thats the way i see it.

Also in response to someones suggestion to pay for a lawyer or use a ticket busting agencies that charges $60. I know about these places and have even used them in the past and had much success with them. They provide a great service to busy people that have no time to go in person to court and play the game of deal or no deal. i dont like paying anyone to do anything i can do, its the reason i change my own oil, cut my own lawn, paint my own apartment etc...I knowhow the system works, im going to waste half a day going to precourt, the judge in training is going to offer me a plea deal based on my past record and i can either take it or take my chances in court, before being reminded that losing might result in court costs not to exceed a $1000 or whatever (in my opinion a coercive tactic to scare people into just taking the deal and getting money out of you, since why should we pay court cost, doesnt our taxes already pay for this?). The system is such a joke and soo inneficient that im just wasting my time even ranting about it because its never going to change, if it hasnt by now. Damn i sound bitter lol I think i need to go lift some weights or something to get all this pent up anger out of my system.

On a brighter note, whos going to Sebring on may24-25 for the open track event?? Someone on the Charger forums notified me about the event earlier today and i was seriously considering going since its open to first timers like myself. I have to reread the email again because i read it in a hurry, but i beleive it cost $200 and requires a specific helmet thats "something" approved ( i cant remeber right now). Does anyone know a good place to pick one of the up in south florida and a good safe,but affordable, brand/model they can recommend. Any recomendations would be greatly appreaciated. If u want more info about thsi event please let me know and i"ll send u the email i was sent regarding all of the details. At first i thought $200 seemed likea lot of money, but putting it in perspective, I'll rather pay a track providing a service to the community over a beaurcracy that squanders its citizens money with an inadequate system. Hope to see some of u guys there if im still in time to register.

Are u telling me!!! lol I never do anything over 35 on the beach ever, under any circumstance. This happened on 5th street in front of the Burger King at the last light before the causeway. This is basically an on ramp to those familair with the area. The speed limit even changes from 35 to 40 i beleive and i still was going under 35 at the time of the stop. If anything i should have gotten a ticket for driving 5 under the speed limit, if theres such a law. which i wouldnt be surprised if there was after getting ticketed for this BS. The Police here doesnt even patrol the neighborhood streets anymore they are soo concerned with traffic tickets. Just last week I saw a couple of lil hoodlums no older than 15 breaking into a parked car about 3 blocks from my house, i scared them away and immediatly drove to a patrol car i passed that was stopped making a traffic stop not too far away and parked behind him to tell him what i saw. When i pulled up behind him, i turned my emergency lights on and was about to get out and he yelled at me to move and that i couldnt park there lol i then got out anyways and told him what i saw and he asked if my property was affected, i said no and he said he would look into it. It almost seemed like he didnt even care he was soo busy writting his ticket, i went home parked my car and decided to take a walk around the block incase i saw them again so that i could point them out to the police i was sure was on there way in numbers. Guess what?? about 15-20 minutes later i saw a marked patrol car make about 2 quick laps around the block and then he pulled onto Harding ave and next thing i know he was pulling someone over because i heard his siren and saw him follwing a car with his lights on as he passed the intersection i was walking on. I felt like going up to him and saying "thats it!! your giving up that fast??", but i didnt even bother, id probably get arrested for harrassing a law officer or vigilante or some other trumped up charge just to get me off his back. i bet u that officer doesnt even live in my neighborhood, youd figure they would be contributing to society, instead of being a drain on it.

Also Rich, you make alot of excellant points and I applaud you for running such a truly free forum where people can speak their minds and engage in an intellectual discussion without any of the negativity found in other forums. i agree that everyone should have a say, wether i agree with them or not, as long as its free of immature name calling and people stick to the facts. You should consider starting another thread consisting of all V8 modern American muscle cars. Im sure more than a few of the openminded charger forums members would become a member in a heartbeat after meeting some of the great members i have been fortunate to cyber meet on here. After reading several posts on here, i have to admit, you guys have a really tight knit family type atmosphere going on here, kind of reminds me of LXforums, too bad we are both seperated by our choice of cars. Im sure some of those guys would find alot in common with a few people that have commented on this post, including you Rich. Your site rocks, thanks guys for all of the advise. I still havent decided what im going to do, most probably just take take whatever they offer me in precourt as long as it doesnt involve any points being deducted. if i change my mind and decide to fight it till the bitter end, ill make sure to come back on here and update u on the outcome, once again thanks everybody, c'yall around.

Thats what makes this place what it is:thumbsup: How many other sites would you find the mods "debating" with the administrator?:lmao: Really funny part is, we do the same in real life:thumbsup:
It really is more of a family here:dancer01: We can debate and disagree all day long, yet ask for or need help and see who comes to your aid. I called one of the guys here a few weeks ago when my 87 tossed the serpentine belt:thumbsdown: Needed a tool I didn't have in my bag:( In 15 minutes he was on scene and in a half and hour we were done...including the run to Autozone for a new belt:thumbsup:Doesn't get any better than that!

As far as the "Brilliant idea":lmao:I wouldn't hold my breath. No one wants big brother looking over thier shoulder all day, even the police. Although I see the positive side of the proposal, the safety and validation issues, the PBA, as you said, the Lawyers lobbyist and probably some other groups would be all over such a proposal like a fly on doo doo;).

It would however, I firmly believe, reduce the back log in the courts, the unnecessary court cases (on both sides) and I think to a degree, improve the publics perception of the police by helping to validate thier (LEO's) observations.:thumbsup:

I know what you're saying, but there's somethings better left to the professionals:rofl1: I go out and work my arse off doing what I do best, so I can pay those that do what they do best to do thier best for me:thumbsup:

SNELL/ANSI ratings. It's the safety and impact rating given to safety equipment and helmets. Get the latest and the highest rating you can find. The more recent the better. As far as cost/brand, of course the standards, Bell, Shoei and such are always a good bet. There are several helmet manufacturers out there that produce a quality product. Go to your local motorcycle dealership/equipment store (crotch rocket dealer preferably) and ask them. They'll have what you need. I would generally suggest NOT buying used unless you know the previous owner and thier habits. FOrget the health issues, you can clean the liners on most. The safety issue is a bigger concern. Was the helmet ever dropped (hard)? Was the helmet and inside taken care of? And how old is the helmet.

But ask the crotch rocket riders. They're a good resource for such information and suppliers.

As far as cost, you only have one brain. I'd suggest spending what you think your brain is worth. This truly is an area where you don't want to skimp on quality.:NoNo:

And $200 for a track day is very resonable:thumbsup:

COme on back (or stick around) as much as you like. You're always welcome here...

Gordon

Probably not that many; however, with the $$$ these dealerships make and the support some get from the factoy, I always wondered why they didn't? With streets becoming more congested, it's getting more and more difficult to find a "test track."

As I said before, I'm not arguing the point. I know it's done as a matter of procedure on a daily basis. And if we're talking about "normal accelleration" then no, there's no violation:thumbsup:

There's not.

:rofl1::lmao::lmao:GOd I hope not!! If so, then throw the book at me right now:lmao:

There is no "specific" determination in statute. That's what makes the current statutes so ambiguous and subject ot "officer interpretation."

Last part first, no, there's not a "specific" time frame. To address the next part, again it depends on the officers perception. Read the racing on highways section of the Florida statutes. It addresses this pretty well.:thumbsup:


.

:lmao:You'd be surprised;) That's why we have courts bro:thumbsup:

I'm going to once again suggest you read the traffic statutes specifically related to "carelss", "Racing on the Highway" and "Special Hazards". All are found under F.S.S. 316. You might be surprised how much interpreting we get to do out there:eek:

...and....???:rofl1:

Sure it does; however, most won't abuse the opportunity. The courts exist (in most cases anyway) as a check and balance.

Besides, in most cases, and there are exceptions, when someone commits one of the violations we're discussing, they usually knew ahead of time what they were doing "might" be illegal or maybe dangerous, and make a conscious decision to do it anyway. Most of the laws are pretty much common sense. Not that they all make sense, but the violations are pretty obvious. I don't agree with ambiguous way many are written, but if they get too specific then they're difficult if not impossible to enforce. IT's a ver gray line:(

Yes. And?

Not arguing with you Rich, simply stating factual data that can be easily retrieved. The statutes exist for one reason or another. That's why I so vehemently endorse PAYING ATTENTION to your elected officials and the bills and laws they propose. Once they're on the books, it's almost impossible to get them amended or removed:(

Bro....this is TRAFFIC COURT not a 1st degree mrder trial. You don't even have the "RIGHT" to an attorney in traffic court (provided by the state that is).

Traffic v. criminal....two totally different worlds:NoNo:

But using that same analogy, buying a Zo6 doesn't automatically make you a traffic violator any more than owning a ski mask makes you a bank robber:D:rofl1:

Traffic laws need to be better written (IMO) but they never ask me:lmao::lmao:

Some linkage:

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_police/...SS_316-191.pdf

This was posted by Ghostrider on MMS:
As you can see from his information, where there's a will to mess with you, there's always a way:rofl1::lmao:

And finally, Florida Statutes, Chapter 316. Gives you pretty much all you need or want to know about traffic statutes regarding moving violations....happy reading....

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...6/titl0316.htm

:wavey:

I should have had a 100 tickets the way i take off in my C6!

It's ok Shadow, I can see I was wrong about the original poster here. He started off real cool like, but has turned into the young "Up against the terrible governement machine" victim of police harrassment since they would rather give him a TRAFFIC INFRACTION instead of arresting FELONY BURGLARS. I won't bother the direct quotes since I quoted the entire slanderous paragraph above.

Calling him a Wyatt Earp wannabe is in fact cop bashing / name calling which you so vehemiantly deny doing and have up to this point in legal discussions avoided. You want to say the officer was wrong based on one severly biased opinion of the original poster then so be it, but don't get all up in arms over me "calling a spade a spade".

I didn't bash anyone, I called a spade a spade. I am exercising my right to say so as well. You are in fact the owner of the site and you say it's open to all points of view, but we'll see.. I seemed to have hit a nerve by the "how dare he say his opinion about me on my board" (Sounds like the bigger site doesn't it). You called the officer (who is not available for his side of the story) a Wyatt Earp Wannabe. If I called a docter a Quack, or a Lawyer a Shark, then we can all agree that those phrases are derrogatory in nature. When you have several members on this board who are police you have to understand that we are not going to appreciate the use of derrogatory phrases. We hear it in our professional lives from all the a$$holes we have to deal with on a daily basis. The people we deal with are usually the lower end of society, not the 90 plus percent of decent people in the world. Traffic is the one thing that causes us to interact with the decent end of society since tickets are available to anyone (including police officers who get them too. I've had some...). DUI is another traffic situation that good people get caught up in. When you appear and act as a friend to someone then turn around and start ranting and raving about the police and how we are soooo terrible by stealing all of your hard earned money for vague and out dated laws because we are a full and willing participant in the terrible government machine then I can see where the opinions are really going. You need to re-direct the sarcasm and anger toward the people making the laws, and not the troops who are given the job to enforce the laws. I'm sure you are not too happy about the Iraq war, but I don't hear you slamming the poor soldiers who are dying for the BS oil companies that started the war, now do you?

HATE THE WAR, NOT THE SOLDIERS!!

What on earth do you ... as the absolute voice of reason in this giant world... think we should do? Should we abolish all traffic laws? How about just the "stupid" ones that YOU don't agree with? Maybe we can do like Europe (since Germany was brought up in an earlier post) and fine people based on their income? Maybe this year you have a sucessful year breeding snakes and that happens to be the same year you get caught on photo radar on the side of the road. Hell you were only caught for 9 over but because it was a good year for you your fine is now.... say maybe $4,000 dollars... for 9 over,,, because you want cameras everywhere like in UK. Then the schmuck who lives on welfare because he is to friggin lazy to get a job runs through the same radar at 20 or 25 over and he gets a $50 fine... Oh ggeezzzz... I can hear the bitchin now!!! But hey it's all on film, and there is no way to fight it because you took away the officers discretion to write or not write based on the cameras doing all the work now.... Wow that certianly is a good idea....

As Shadow said earlier the officers believe in the job they are doing. There is no lightning that will strike them if they write a grudge ticket, but I do not know or work with any officers that will write an unlawful ticket "Just because". I know that officers exist that will do that, but just like any profession they are few and far between. Eventually they get found out and are eliminated from the picture. The common perception by thye public is that they are ALL OVER THE PLACE. This is because the media doesn't print a story about the officer that pulled the suicidal person off the bridge when they were jumping (as I have done, and an FHP friend has done in a different incident) or tell the story of the officers that ran into the shooting situation where an exboyfriend was trying to kill the new boyfriend. The same situation that all too often gets an officer hurt or killed, yet on this date no officers died thankfully and only the bad guy died from a self inflicted gunshot wound (again a true story I was involved in but never saw one word of in the news). But they sure as heck will print the story over and over about the one bad officer of that department who was caught on video taking one extra poke at a suspect who fled and was tackled on the ground. Or better yet the idiot in the Hillsborough County jail who dumped the guy out of the wheel chair on video that she KNEW was there. That officer has tarnished ALOT of other badges by her juvenile and illegal behavior, and then the public believes we all do BS like that.

This is a case of one persons point of view and several others that have jumped onto the bandwagon to give the 'ol "yea I knew the officers are just big ol bad meanies",,,, and I'll tell you what It gets very old. I was a member of this board in the first few memberships and I have always thought that things stayed pretty balanced here,, but as of late I'm not so sure anymore.

I will have to sit back and see what happens here before I make any rash decisions, but it seems as though this board has gotten a bit one sided in recent conversations. I hate to limit myself to just LEO boards, but I don't want to see this garbage in my off time because I see enough of it in my on duty time. People wonder why LEO can be so click-ish but this can be a good example of why. I know this thread has not reached the level of the bigger forum's attacks, but I only surf the for sale section anymore on that site b/c of the bashing. I figure the FS section doesn't have the BS banter and I can pick up some cool stuff for my ride, so why not? Maybe I should do like most of my club and just leave the boards alone and just hang with the true friends that realize there are two sides to every story. I hear less from a fellow club member who works for the public defender's office than I do on this board as of late.

Peace out
Rant off.

It's ok Shadow, I can see I was wrong about the original poster here. He started off real cool like, but has turned into the young "Up against the terrible governement machine" victim of police harrassment since they would rather give him a TRAFFIC INFRACTION instead of arresting FELONY BURGLARS. I won't bother the direct quotes since I quoted the entire slanderous paragraph above.

Calling him a Wyatt Earp wannabe is in fact cop bashing / name calling which you so vehemiantly deny doing and have up to this point in legal discussions avoided. You want to say the officer was wrong based on one severly biased opinion of the original poster then so be it, but don't get all up in arms over me "calling a spade a spade".

I didn't bash anyone, I called a spade a spade. I am exercising my right to say so as well. You are in fact the owner of the site and you say it's open to all points of view, but we'll see.. I seemed to have hit a nerve by the "how dare he say his opinion about me on my board" (Sounds like the bigger site doesn't it). You called the officer (who is not available for his side of the story) a Wyatt Earp Wannabe. If I called a docter a Quack, or a Lawyer a Shark, then we can all agree that those phrases are derrogatory in nature. When you have several members on this board who are police you have to understand that we are not going to appreciate the use of derrogatory phrases. We hear it in our professional lives from all the a$$holes we have to deal with on a daily basis. The people we deal with are usually the lower end of society, not the 90 plus percent of decent people in the world. Traffic is the one thing that causes us to interact with the decent end of society since tickets are available to anyone (including police officers who get them too. I've had some...). DUI is another traffic situation that good people get caught up in. When you appear and act as a friend to someone then turn around and start ranting and raving about the police and how we are soooo terrible by stealing all of your hard earned money for vague and out dated laws because we are a full and willing participant in the terrible government machine then I can see where the opinions are really going. You need to re-direct the sarcasm and anger toward the people making the laws, and not the troops who are given the job to enforce the laws. I'm sure you are not too happy about the Iraq war, but I don't hear you slamming the poor soldiers who are dying for the BS oil companies that started the war, now do you?

HATE THE WAR, NOT THE SOLDIERS!!

What on earth do you ... as the absolute voice of reason in this giant world... think we should do? Should we abolish all traffic laws? How about just the "stupid" ones that YOU don't agree with? Maybe we can do like Eourope (since Germany was brought up in an earlier post) and fine people based on their income? Maybe this year you have a sucessful year breeding snakes and that happens to be the same year you get caught on photo radar on the side of the road. Hell you were only caught for 9 over but because it was a good year for you your fine is now.... say maybe $4,000 dollars... for 9 over,,, because you want cameras everywhere like in UK. Then the schmuck who lives on welfare because he is to friggin lazy to get a job runs through the same radar at 20 or 25 over and he gets a $50 fine... Oh ggeezzzz... I can hear the bitchin now!!! But hey it's all on film, and there is no way to fight it because you took away the officers discretion to write or not write based on the cameras doing all the work now.... Wow that certianly is a good idea....

As Shadow said earlier the officers believe in the job they are doing. There is no lightning that will strike them if they write a grudge ticket, but I do not know or work with any officers that will write an unlawful ticket "Just because". I know that officers exist that will do that, but just like any profession they are few and far between. Eventually they get found out and are eliminated from the picture. The common perception by thye public is that they are ALL OVER THE PLACE. This is because the media doesn't print a story about the officer that pulled the suicidal person off the bridge when they were jumping (as I have done, and an FHP friend has done in a different incident) or tell the story of the officers that ran into the shooting situation where an exboyfriend was trying to kill the new boyfriend. The same situation that all too often gets an officer hurt or killed, yet on this date no officers died thankfully and only the bad guy died from a self inflicted gunshot wound (again a true story I was involved in but never saw one word of in the news). But they sure as heck will print the story over and over about the one bad officer of that department who was caught on video taking one extra poke at a suspect who fled and was tackled on the ground. Or better yet the idiot in the Hillsborough County jail who dumped the guy out of the wheel chair on video that she KNEW was there. That officer has tarnished ALOT of other badges by her juvenile and illegal behavior, and then the public believes we all do BS like that.

This is a case of one persons point of view and several others that have jumped onto the bandwagon to give the 'ol "yea I knew the officers are just big ol bad meanies",,,, and I'll tell you what It gets very old. I was a member of this borad in the first few memberships and I have always thought that thigs stayed pretty balanced here,, but as of late I'm not so sure anymore.

I will have to sit back and see what happens here before I make any rash decisions, but it seems as though this board has gotten a bit one sided in recent conversations. I hate to limit myself to just LEO boards, but I don't want to see this garbage in my off time because I see enough of it in my on duty time. People wonder why LEO can be so click-ish but this can be a good example of why. I know this thread has not reached the level of the bigger forum's attacks, but I only surf the for sale section anymore on that site b/c of the bashing. I figure the FS section doesn't have the BS banter and I can pick up some cool stuff for my ride, so why not? Maybe I should do like most of my club and just leave the boards alone and just hang with the true friends that realize there are two sides to every story. I hear less from a fellow club member who works for the public defender's office than I do on this board as of late.

Peace out
Rant off.

Z06 Rocket and Shadow, God bless you gentlemen and thank you for all you do to keep us safe. My son is a Fed 1811 and I am very proud of him.
Lou

Be that as it may, I expressed my opinion of the issue as stated by a member here in relation to the facts as expressed by his point of view. If those facts are accurate, then I DO stand by my assessment of that particular officer's actions. If YOU choose to interpret this as a general bashing of ALL cops, then perhaps you are jumping to conclusions that are just not warranted. I am not bashing YOU for your opinions, and I would appreciate YOU not bashing me for mine. If you would prefer limiting yourself to sites that put blinders on everyone and only allows a strictly enforced point of view about certain topics, then by all means, enjoy yourself there. That will not be the case here. Just about all topics are openly invited, within reasonably broad limitations concerning good taste and socially acceptable topics. With the stated limitation that openly bashing other members will actively be discouraged in the process of discussing controversial topics. That is an atmosphere I would prefer to not have on this site.

Sorry, but I am just not going to create some rule stating that complaints about law enforcement will NOT be welcome on this site. Quite frankly if the incident shows that the shoe fits, then the person(s) involved certainly should wear that shoe, not hope that the administration of a site will just sweep it under the carpet for them. If there are some rogue cops out there, and a member chooses to mention it here, then quite frankly, I can see no logical reason at all why I should inhibit such a discussion. To be perfectly frank, if it is the goal of law enforcement to weed out such problem LEOs, then how better to help that process then by bringing it to light?

And while I am thinking about it, if there are a LOT of sites that engage in LEO bashing, as you say, then isn't that perhaps telling you something? Is there even the smallest possibility that perhaps the problems are more widespread than you would care to admit? Am I reading you wrong or are you blatantly stating that you believe that ALL LEOs, no matter what the circumstances, should be exempt completely from any public criticism? If that is the case, sorry, but I am not going to try to muzzle members here about such topics. Seriously, how much of the world going around him do you think an ostrich sees when he sticks his head in the sand? And if you wish to surround yourself solely with people who act, think, and talk just like you do, then isn't that exactly what you are doing?

Alright guys, come on! I think everyones getting a bit thin skinned here. Some places would have had this locked and/or deleted by now. One thing I like here is the freedom to be open.

That said, I have to take exception with the first sentence.

I don't think the problems are widespread.:NoNo:Statistically I'm certain the numbers are quite small compared to the number of LEO's doing the job on a daily basis.

What I see more frequently are problems with public perception. The public believes what it percieves. As Rocket said, good deeds generally don't make huge press:(

The idiot in the jail will be news for years. Let one cop save a life, it'll be evening news...maybe...then it's never heard from again:(

I understand where you're coming from Rich, mainly because we've hung out together a bit. Rocket, Rich really doesn't have a cop hater bone in his body:thumbsup:

But painting all LEO's with a such a wide brush is what a lot of guys get tired of. I can't disagree with that either.

I come here to enjoy the cars, the friendships and the interaction. I come here because these are people, unlike the larger national forums, that I'm more likely to see on a regular or semi regular basis.

I'm a member of a club but don't involve myself with it. Why? Don't have the time:(

So this is my main interaction with the vette community.

I not sure how the OP had a "victim" attitude? I see how he would get the perception that the police in his jurisdiction are only there to write tickets and create an income for the agency. It's the same with WALDO and some other small towns. The police tend to bring these things on themselves.
IF I had been in his shoes, I'd probably think the same thing!
Some times we just bring this crap on ourselves.

I do not frequent cop sites anymore. I did for a short while and was very disapointed with what I read:( Childish, us against the world attitudes and even bashing among the agencies. When full grown men started referring to themselves as "star man" and "star men" like they were comic book charachters, I'd had enough!! Instead of using that one site in particular to share information that may keep a brother alive or bring a criminal to justice, instead of using the site to vent to keep the BP down and instead of supporting one another regardless of the uniform or jurisdiction, they would demean and belittle other agencies, especially the smaller ones and talk of "takeovers" abounded:NoNo:

Got pretty sickening and I just never went back.

As one who has worked for both MAJOR (4th largest in the country) and minor (freaking Mayberry,-even had Barney...I swear it!:lmao:), I can tell you first hand that the risks are the same and the level of dedication is there regardless of what you wear on your chest:thumbsup:The difference? When things went to hell in a handbaket in a small town, you'd better be well equipped mentally and physically to handle them....BY YOURSELF!!

In the larger agencies, I still see 3-4-5 + officers on scene of a DUI or other arrest. I'm happy to see that, but again, don't put down the little guys either.

Anyway, after witnessing all the COP BASHING on the LEO sites, I just never went back...

I don't want to see that happen here. It's pretty prevelent on the nationwide Corvette Sites and I'd like to think, maybe because we can actually get together and see each other on occason, that we are better than that.

I don't want to see us like other sites. Over moderated and "edited" for correctness. It's pretty sickening when a person, regardless of thier perspective, can't voice thier opinion:(

But I don't want to see friends and associates going at each other either:NoNo:

My final comment....PLEASE-state your opinions, try to support them with facts when possible, and try to keep the name calling to a minimum. Maybe the Wyatt Erp Wannabe statement could have been prefaced with "the officer in question" At least that doesn't throw all of them in the same pool.

Thanks guys/
Gordon

Thank you Lou, but the honors for this one go to Rocket:thumbsup::thumbsup:
:notworthy:
I'm no longer active in the field. I've retired and then, after 15 years as a fully certified part timer, I'm gone again.

Might go back somewhere near the end of the year. Had a few offers and really enjoy the work, but some of the political BS, well, not sure I want to keep putting up with it. I'm pretty "old school" and feel getting the job done means more than keeping some "suit" happy:thumbsup:

But thanks for the kudos anyway, it's truly appreciated and tell you son to stay safe out there:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Gordon

Actually, my "Wyatt Earp wannabe" statement, taken in the context of the post it was made in was SPECIFICALLY concerning the officer in question and related to the stated evidence presented by the original poster:

How someone could interpret that statement to mean a broad brushed general cop bashing tirade is beyond me. Sorry about that perception, but it certainly was not my intent. My comment stands, as is, concerning that particular officer in THIS incident. If the original poster posted the truth and unembellished details of the situation then it is my OPINION that the cop was being overly ambitious, abusive, or simply mistaken in how he chose to enforce the law in this particular case. Perhaps there were extenuating circumstances not divulged here, but pending any other evidence to the contrary, that is MY opinion formulated from those details at my disposal.

Ok I admit that I might have gone a little bit overboard in making those 2 or 3 assumptions, but honestly its how I truly feel based on what I witness on a daily basis. Some police officers on the charger forums have suggested that its probably the result of being in proximty to South Beach and that they are just helping get drunk drivers off the street. This might be one of the reason, but from my personal experience drunk drivers tend to drive eratic, swerve and usually drive more than 8 miles over the speed limit. The main majority of cars I've seen pulled over have been for very minor offenses (not all, a few deserve it) and rarley do they let you off with a warning, even if they dont find any open containers or DUI (from personal experiences, friends, family and neighbors). This is not a "young vs. the man" mentality, in fact everyone I have previously mentioned feels the same exact way I do and beleive me some are in their 60's. Some of these people are all very educacted individuals from doctors, professors to blue collar workers like tow truck drivers. I hate to say this but I have very little respect for the Police in this area and let me clarify this...I do not share this negative sentiment to the rest of the hard working police officers in dade caounty and elsewhere who I am aware are mostly underpaid and overworked. I know this might sound likea very harsh statement and might come off as being bitter because of my recent ticket but let me explain something that really rubs me the wrong way. During the daytime, especially on the weekends, there is a lot of foot traffic, with pedestrians crossing the street on Collins and Harding heading to the beach. During this time you rarley see a police officer enforcing traffic anywhere in sight and have seen some very close calls that have made my blood boil. Then soon as the sun comes down and everyone has gone home and theres not a soul in sight, u start seeing police cars everywhere parked in side streets or setting up radar guns on tripods (surfside) or parked at the bottom of the steep bridge (bal harbour) trying to catch speeders going 10 over (40mph) when theres not a pedestrian in sight. I have even seen cops speed at least 45-50mph speeding to set up postion at that bridge, its like a big game of cat and mouse.

I think Shadow hit the nail on the head when he said " I think they brought this upon themselves", if not then why dont i feel the same about the police in unincorporate dade or other parts of south florida? and beleive me ive had my fair share of tickets over there in my high school days, but at least i feel i deserved everysingle one of them for driving like a jackass.

I have a serious question for all of the law enforecment officers on this forum:

How are traffic citation revenue allocated? where does all this money go? to the individual departments or the state or both? and what would happen if no one sped and ticket revenue was $0 for a whole year, would this affect department funding and would dpet. be forced to reduce wages, hours and equipment? I want a truly honest answer with no dancing around the question please. Im not trying to play lawayer here, its just that ive never truly known the answer to this and i suspect it funds the dept directly and that this is a huge conflict of interest, but rather than make an assumption, I'd prefer to know facts from the source itself.

Go to the stiuicky at the top of the page in the legal section (where we are now). Click on the link to the statutes, go to the top left and click on the blue highlighted area.

From there scroll down to f.s.s. 318.14.

You should find everything you need there.

From experience, most DUI's actually drive BELOW the posted speed limit. That's one of the indicators I used to look for. Trying like hell to remain "inconspicuous:lmao:"

If those on the Charger forums are as you mention, they chould have the "clout" (read that $$$) to effect change:thumbsup:

Contributions to thier elected officials campaigns aside, strong, well worded and factual letter and e-mail writing campaings (make sure you use certified mail with snail mail and a "read reciept" with e-mail) can also work wonders.

Voice your concerns calmly and professionally. States facts and save the venting for the corner pub:lmao:

Show up at city council meetings. Who do you think funds the PD and who do you think can start the ball rolling to make it go away? I've seen at least five (5) small police agencies in the last several years go away due to budget or internal problems. Might make it better, might make it worse. Never know, it's a coin toss.

Anyway, just don't think we're all alike please. Again, most of the guys and ladies I know in the field are truly dedicated individuals that just want to do thier job with a minimum of interference by the suits and go home in one piece at the end of the shift:thumbsup:

Later,

Gordon

Just curious, you appear to have a vast knowledge of law enforcment operations in your area. How is it that you know that "The main majority of cars I've seen pulled over have been for very minor offenses"? And "and rarley do they let you off with a warning, even if they dont find any open containers or DUI". Why should they be let off with a warning if they were stopped for a legitimate (traffic infraction) reason? I can understand you being able to recognize that "some are in their 60's", but how do you determine the extent of their education and their occupations? Do you interview these people on the street while the traffic stop is being conducted to gain all of this insight, or is this just mere presumption on your part? How do you know what the purpose of the traffic stop is on a random individual without your being present?

From my experience, people from all walks of life are guilty of traffic infractions from time to time. Yes, even cops speed! I'm not standing up for the rogue officers that you may or may not have encountered because I don't know them. But I do know that perception is very often flawed. And for you to have made these various statements leaves little doubt in my mind that much (if not all) of your observations have been perceived. Could this have been influenced by traffic citations you have received?

As for not having traffic enforcement during the day, I can't speak for that, other than the old addage "where's a cop when you need one". As for "Then soon as the sun comes down and everyone has gone home and theres not a soul in sight, u start seeing police cars everywhere", more crime occurs at night, thus the reason for more cops at night. Also, a major deterent to crime is the use of red and blue lights.

As for the revenue generated by traffic citations, it all goes into a pool, and at the end of the year we all have a big party and get our Christmas bonuses!:rofl1: Actually, very little revenue is allocated to the originating agency. I believe, out of a $118.50 citation, our agency receives $12.00.

In summary, there are bad cops out there. And you may or may not have had dealings with one. But, as Shadow said, the number is very few. My agency is small and we could spot one in a heartbeat. But even in the bigger agencies, they don't last long. Trust me when I say that I stay busy enough that I don't need to generate more work by making bogus traffic stops.

And as for having to prove that you violated a law in court, the fact that you received a citation is my proof. I have been to court many times before the traffic judge and I have not ever committed perjury. The judges know me and know that I am not there to tell a lie. So basically when you challenge me in court over a speeding ticket, the judge will check to see if my radar certification is valid. Finding that to be in order, the violation stands. In the last six years I have never lost a traffic case, and only one DUI.