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Miami to arm police with assault weapons

This in today's St Pete times..
MIAMI - A rise in assault rifle use by criminals has spurred Miami's police chief to authorize patrol officers to carry similar weapons, he said Sunday.

Police Chief John Timoney approved the new policy last week. That was even before a Miami-Dade police officer was killed in a shootout with an assault rifle-wielding suspect on Thursday. The new policy has been under review for about a year due to officers seeing an increase in the weapons, Timoney said.

"This is something we do not do with any relish. We do this reluctantly," Timoney said.

The chief blamed the 2004 expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons for the escalation of heavily armed violence on Miami's streets. He said AK-47s have become a "gun of choice" for criminals.

Years ago, law enforcement specialists like SWAT teams were the only officers to carry the assault-style weapons, but now even small-town police agencies are expanding access to the AR-15, a civilian version of the military M-16 rifle.

Patrol officers in Danbury, Conn., have been allowed to carry the weapons since 2003. Police departments in Merced, Calif., and Waterloo, Iowa, have deployed them in all patrol vehicles for several years. In Stillwater, Okla., about 70 miles west of Tulsa, every police patrol officer is issued an AR-15.

Officers in Los Angeles have been equipped with the weapons even longer, since soon after a 1997 gunfight outside a bank where police faced a man armed with an AK-47. Officers in that situation had to go to a nearby gun store to get high-velocity weapons.

Timoney said it has become apparent over the last year that Miami officers need the option of more powerful weapons. For example, he said an officer responding to a domestic dispute recently found the man sleeping with an AK-47.

The Miami Police Department said 15 of its 79 homicides last year involved assault weapons. This year, 12 of the 60 homicides have involved the high-power guns.

As a precaution, officers using the weapons in Miami will shoot "frangible" bullets, which shatter after they've hit something to avoid striking bystanders or other unintended targets.

In addition, officers interested in the guns will also have to undergo two days of training and be certified to use the weapons, which the police force doesn't yet have money to purchase. If officers want the guns now, they will have to pay for them, Timoney said.

Not all officers may choose to carry the new weapon. But, said Timoney: "If I was a police officer out there in a tough neighborhood, I would want to have that in the car."

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzzona

This in today's St Pete times..
MIAMI - A rise in assault rifle use by criminals has spurred Miami's police chief to authorize patrol officers to carry similar weapons, he said Sunday.

Police Chief John Timoney approved the new policy last week. That was even before a Miami-Dade police officer was killed in a shootout with an assault rifle-wielding suspect on Thursday. The new policy has been under review for about a year due to officers seeing an increase in the weapons, Timoney said.

"This is something we do not do with any relish. We do this reluctantly," Timoney said.

Why relcutantly? Thats just the type of administrative thinking that gets officers killed:mad:
This should have been done decades ago. It was up here;):thumbsup:

The chief blamed the 2004 expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons for the escalation of heavily armed violence on Miami's streets. He said AK-47s have become a "gun of choice" for criminals.

Bullchit!!! Stop laying the blame on assault weapons:nonod: It's not the "weapon" that kills...it's the scumbag behind it. You want to lay blame knucklehead?
try blaming the courts that keep turing out criminals! Try blaming youself and the FEDS for not aggressively pursuing the illegal gun trade. Stop whining and do something proactive!

Years ago, law enforcement specialists like SWAT teams were the only officers to carry the assault-style weapons, but now even small-town police agencies are expanding access to the AR-15, a civilian version of the military M-16 rifle.

No chit Sherlock? What rock did you crawl from under? (no offense to snakes Rich:rofl1: )

Patrol officers in Danbury, Conn., have been allowed to carry the weapons since 2003. Police departments in Merced, Calif., and Waterloo, Iowa, have deployed them in all patrol vehicles for several years. In Stillwater, Okla., about 70 miles west of Tulsa, every police patrol officer is issued an AR-15.

Officers in Los Angeles have been equipped with the weapons even longer, since soon after a 1997 gunfight outside a bank where police faced a man armed with an AK-47. Officers in that situation had to go to a nearby gun store to get high-velocity weapons.

Timoney said it has become apparent over the last year that Miami officers need the option of more powerful weapons. For example, he said an officer responding to a domestic dispute recently found the man sleeping with an AK-47.

The Miami Police Department said 15 of its 79 homicides last year involved assault weapons. This year, 12 of the 60 homicides have involved the high-power guns.

As a precaution, officers using the weapons in Miami will shoot "frangible" bullets, which shatter after they've hit something to avoid striking bystanders or other unintended targets.

This is great except when you need to penetrate a car door:thumbsdown:

In addition, officers interested in the guns will also have to undergo two days of training and be certified to use the weapons, which the police force doesn't yet have money to purchase. If officers want the guns now, they will have to pay for them, Timoney said.

Hell no! We have to pay for pay raises and useless promotions first:( Besides, we need a new fleet of cars every year:nonod:

Not all officers may choose to carry the new weapon. But, said Timoney: "If I was a police officer out there in a tough neighborhood, I would want to have that in the car."

See bolded responses above

The idea in premise is great:thumbsup: Here's the problem. In many of the recent and evenh less recent shootings, the perps shot the officer as the officer approached a car, or a door on a "routine" call (God! I hate that word!)

Unless you're going to approach like a soldier, weapon in hand and at the ready, it's pretty useless to you in the car.

If you have it in your hand, you now have your hands tied. When you need to wrestle or tazer a suspect, even hand cuff them, you have to do something with the weapon. Big problem:(

Training and more tactical style training at that is key. Administrations for the most part, just don't think that way:(

I don't think every officer will only have specific ammo..
And I agree it is not a solution..it sort of evens the odds in some cases and if it only saves one life it is worth it. I am not speaking with any experience in law enforcement, but I do know what overwhelming firepower can do...

The whole idea of a Law Enforcement Officer being able to meet a threat with an equal or greater defense is probably just a moot point. The ACLU will find a way to show that it violates the citizen's constitutional right. During my career, every time the Sheriff proposed a new and superior weapon there was always some bleeding heart liberal individual or group right there trying to quash the idea. Am I glad I am retired ? YOU BET !!!

I live about 5 minutes from miami, i go there everyweekend for races, and i know in this area, since im in highschool i know A LOT of kids with AK-47s and AR-15s and Beretta assault rifles and all kinds of high powered guns like that, many of them keep them in their cars, i know a lot of kids who have pistols on them daily, but since ive gotten into highschool ive seen a big increase of kids with much more powerful and faster guns... all of these kids i know with these guns have extended clips with "armor piercing bullets"... so i can just imagine if kids in highschool have guns like this, what older people in liberty city and carol city and places like that have... so that would b good if police had guns that could be equal or better to the guns that the criminals have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracket Monster

I believe that any handgun holding armor piercing ammo in it is a violation of both state and federal law. I haven't seen ammo piercing handgun ammo offered for sale for at least 30 years. Not to mention the fact that handgun ammo generally does not generate enough velocity for even a penetrating core projectile to be able to defeat TRUE armor.

As for ballistic vests, several types of legal handgun projectiles can penetrate all but the most durable vests. But the military definition of "armor" does not include personal vests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzzona

Man, what a crock of political posturing BS this is! For one thing the "assault weapon" ban basically did nothing at all, which is why it sunsetted. All the same guns were still available legally as long as they didn't have some arbitrary combination of grip, muzzle brake (flash suppressor), collapsible or folding stock, and magazine well.

And "assault weapons" are NOT more powerful at all. Matter of fact, the definition of "assault weapon" is on that uses an intermediary power cartridge such as the 5.56 and 7.62x39 rounds. In most knowledgeable circles, the 5.56 (or .223) rounds (which is the round the AR-15 utilizes) are considered fairly useful for small to mid-sized animal varmints, but are not even considered suitable for deer hunting.

Truth be known, a 30-06 hunting rifle is a much more potent weapon to run up against. Even the .308 will far outclass the assault weapon calibers on an even playing field.

It's all smoke and mirrors. The Democrats would love nothing better than to get the "feel good" assault weapon ban instituted again to try to ease that stinging rebuke they got when it was overwhelmingly rejected at the time it sunsetted..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracket Monster

I live about 5 minutes from miami, i go there everyweekend for races, and i know in this area, since im in highschool i know A LOT of kids with AK-47s and AR-15s and Beretta assault rifles and all kinds of high powered guns like that, many of them keep them in their cars, i know a lot of kids who have pistols on them daily, but since ive gotten into highschool ive seen a big increase of kids with much more powerful and faster guns... all of these kids i know with these guns have extended clips with "armor piercing bullets"... so i can just imagine if kids in highschool have guns like this, what older people in liberty city and carol city and places like that have... so that would b good if police had guns that could be equal or better to the guns that the criminals have.

Dude,

If you "know" this stuff is happening, report it! You can do so annonymously for God's sake.

Weapons on any school property is illegal in Florida.

The weapons you mention are no illegal unless they meet certain requirement; however, it'd be damned nice to know whose packin' what where?

Besides, if they have felony records, or the weapons are concealed (within certain guidelines) within the car or on the person, that too is illegal.

I'm not picking on you brother, but this is EXACTLY why we have these problems. People who know won't tell:( Then when somebody gets offed, we wring our phucking hands and go (my best Eeore here) oh, me oh my:(

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzzona

You're right, but it only evens the odds when they have the chance:(
In a sniper situation, or taking fire from an unk. assailant, the presence and availability of an "assault weapon" is a good thing. Situations like the NORCO shooting and some others would be a great time to have them...when you have the time to deploy them.

The problem, is in most police shootings and the related calls/activities, there's little if any warning and absolutely no time to ready them. On you're regular traffic stop, their totally worthless. Most domestics, I wouldn't approach the house with one in hand either. No where to place it when the chit hits the fan.

The problem still boils back down to manpower and TACTICS:thumbsup:

Hell, there are still administrators resisting the active shooter programs????

We need to spend MORE TIME TRAINING in deployment tactics and high risk responses, and less time in the class room learning how to be politically correct!:mad:

Weapons be damned! If you don't have it ready, in most case, you'd just as well leave it at home. One more thing for the little puke bastitches to break into the car to steal:(