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Shadow · 03-28-2009, 06:28 AM

This is going to be a little long, but since you asked you deserve a thourough answer.

Yes, there are already several "red light cameras" in operation throughout the state.

I happen to know the mother of one of the Deputies here who, for his college project, took this matter on. He then presented it to the department and it looks like the "powers that be" have bit into it hook, line and sinker.

He showed the "feasability" and the "effectiveness" of the camera systems in reducing crashes.

This garnered him a promotion and transfer (IIRC?) to the operations division as an aid to the colonel.

Of course I'm sure he left out the revenue gathering part in anything that might become public information.

This battle can be waged with "facts" on both sides. Do a little Google searching and you'll see what I mean.

Some municipalities have ordered the cameras removed and they have been successfully fought in some jurisdictions.

I would love to see long term stats on rear end crashes and other violations (fleeing and attempting to elude, etc) at these intersections where cameras are installed.

But the bottom line is, the cameras are cheaper to operate, work harder, longer and without complaining, take zero risk (no traffic stops) and are more unforgiving, than any deputy or police officer on the street!

This alone could garner the city/county more revenue at a lower cost than a LEO while saving money and "theroetically" freeing them up for other more serious matters.

The flip side it it also takes away the interaction between law enforcement and the citizen. We made a lot of arrests for everything from NVDL and DUI to Homicide, from simple traffic stops. I haven't read the stats in many years, but at one time, a major number of arrests for violent and other crimes came right out off the street in traffic enforcement

If you ask me personally, I don't like the idea of cameras simply because I'm a dinosaur

However, if they truly save lives and reduce crashes, then go for it, but I would like to see a couple of concessions.

1) Reduced insurance premiums!

A portion of your insurance premium is based on your location. Some counties, hell, some ZIP CODES, are rated higher than others. If we manage to reduces the incident of crashes and related claims, why not provide the residents of that county/ZIP code, etc, a reduction in auto premuims as they would for having air bags, anti-lock brakes, and anti-theft devices?

2) NO KICK BACKS!!

Purchase the camera systems, maintenance agreements or training to maintain them, from whatever company gets the "nod", and DO NOT allow (as is current policy) the manufacturer/retailer to keep ANY of the $$$ from the violations!!

As far as the tag covers, there's a specific statute in the State of Florida. that addresses any cover or film that "obscures" " any portion of the tag."

For a while around here, the LEO's were getting absolutely stupid!

They were interpreting this literally and writing citations for having a frame that covered any part of the tag, including the border

Yes, "technically" they were correct in doing so, but again, use some common sense people!! There's NOTHING on the border of our tags that amounts to CHIT!

They don't even have the county any more, and if anything, usually some silly assed logo or slogan. I realize the expiration decals can be obscured, so simply move them inboard a bit and you're good to go

I've seen articles, discussions and even "experiments" where the spray on film worked better than the covers and of course you can't readilly identify that it's on there. If the cameras can't catch the numbers then how they gonna find out who you are?
IDK, mayber we'll set up a surveillance on the toll booth and wait for the semi-identified scofflaw to do it again

Seriously though, do they work? No personal knowledge here, just the BS hype everyone else has read.
Do I want to chance my livelyhood or my finances on a spray or cover? Probably not.

First, as Rich said, I don't advocate illegal acts

If you can't afford the toll, don't use the expressway. I fon't alway carry change so I finally broke down and got a SUNPASS

I love it. Cheaper in the long run and I have detailed information if I need it for taxes.

Does it smack of the possibility of "big brother" knowing what roads I use and when? Sure, but who cares? If they're that interested in what I'm doing, open the door and get in, shut up and hang on

Even if you don't want the SUNPASS and don't happen to carry coins for fear of falling in a puddle and drowning from the excess weight in your pockets, one can alway call the toll road authority and send the $$ in or pay it at one of the other booths (when you have the coins/$$) and get a reciept for the extra toll

Simple as that.

No reason to be regularly running toll booths.

Red light violations? Again, I don't advocate it.

As a matter of fact, it pretty much pisses me off!

Too many people get injured and killed as a result of this. As well, I've watched as many as 6 cars go through an intersection after the red light, simply because they were too lazy, in too much of a hurry or too important, to wait for the next cycle

But I still don't care for the "big brother" routine

Damaging state owned property will get you jail time, simple as that.

But it is true, we're allowing our government, from the bottom to the top, to eat away at our freedoms and liberties for various reasons. That said, on the road you are in the public domain and being photographed is not protected. As well, driving is a priviledge not a right, and as such, we are pretty much forced into going along with whatever BS regs the state wishes to impose on us.

All I can suggest is:

1) Watch your State officials! Keep an eye on pending bills and legislation. If you see something you're not comfortable with, start immediatly to do something about it! Once a bill becomes law, it's almost impossible to have it removed.

2VOTE!!

Use what little power you have effectively. See what your elected officials have been doing and make an informed decision.

As far as I'm concerned we pretty much need a house cleaning or an oil change, every few years regardless. I know there are some that do a good job and it might benefit certain groups to keep them in place, but they still need to go.

Our government, again from the bottom to the top, has forgotten who they work for

When they get stupid, they need to get out!

03-28-2009, 06:28 AM	#5
Shadow Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: port of indecision Posts: 5,604 Name :	This is going to be a little long, but since you asked you deserve a thourough answer. Yes, there are already several "red light cameras" in operation throughout the state. I happen to know the mother of one of the Deputies here who, for his college project, took this matter on. He then presented it to the department and it looks like the "powers that be" have bit into it hook, line and sinker. He showed the "feasability" and the "effectiveness" of the camera systems in reducing crashes. This garnered him a promotion and transfer (IIRC?) to the operations division as an aid to the colonel. Of course I'm sure he left out the revenue gathering part in anything that might become public information. This battle can be waged with "facts" on both sides. Do a little Google searching and you'll see what I mean. Some municipalities have ordered the cameras removed and they have been successfully fought in some jurisdictions. I would love to see long term stats on rear end crashes and other violations (fleeing and attempting to elude, etc) at these intersections where cameras are installed. But the bottom line is, the cameras are cheaper to operate, work harder, longer and without complaining, take zero risk (no traffic stops) and are more unforgiving, than any deputy or police officer on the street! This alone could garner the city/county more revenue at a lower cost than a LEO while saving money and "theroetically" freeing them up for other more serious matters. The flip side it it also takes away the interaction between law enforcement and the citizen. We made a lot of arrests for everything from NVDL and DUI to Homicide, from simple traffic stops. I haven't read the stats in many years, but at one time, a major number of arrests for violent and other crimes came right out off the street in traffic enforcement If you ask me personally, I don't like the idea of cameras simply because I'm a dinosaur However, if they truly save lives and reduce crashes, then go for it, but I would like to see a couple of concessions. 1) Reduced insurance premiums! A portion of your insurance premium is based on your location. Some counties, hell, some ZIP CODES, are rated higher than others. If we manage to reduces the incident of crashes and related claims, why not provide the residents of that county/ZIP code, etc, a reduction in auto premuims as they would for having air bags, anti-lock brakes, and anti-theft devices? 2) NO KICK BACKS!! Purchase the camera systems, maintenance agreements or training to maintain them, from whatever company gets the "nod", and *DO NOT* allow (as is current policy) the manufacturer/retailer to keep ANY of the $$$ from the violations!! As far as the tag covers, there's a specific statute in the State of Florida. that addresses any cover or film that "obscures" " any portion of the tag." For a while around here, the LEO's were getting absolutely stupid! They were interpreting this literally and writing citations for having a frame that covered any part of the tag, including the border Yes, "technically" they were correct in doing so, but again, use some common sense people!! There's NOTHING on the border of our tags that amounts to CHIT! They don't even have the county any more, and if anything, usually some silly assed logo or slogan. I realize the expiration decals can be obscured, so simply move them inboard a bit and you're good to go I've seen articles, discussions and even "experiments" where the spray on film worked better than the covers and of course you can't readilly identify that it's on there. If the cameras can't catch the numbers then how they gonna find out who you are? IDK, mayber we'll set up a surveillance on the toll booth and wait for the semi-identified scofflaw to do it again Seriously though, do they work? No personal knowledge here, just the BS hype everyone else has read. Do I want to chance my livelyhood or my finances on a spray or cover? Probably not. First, as Rich said, I don't advocate illegal acts If you can't afford the toll, don't use the expressway. I fon't alway carry change so I finally broke down and got a SUNPASS I love it. Cheaper in the long run and I have detailed information if I need it for taxes. Does it smack of the possibility of "big brother" knowing what roads I use and when? Sure, but who cares? If they're that interested in what I'm doing, open the door and get in, shut up and hang on Even if you don't want the SUNPASS and don't happen to carry coins for fear of falling in a puddle and drowning from the excess weight in your pockets, one can alway call the toll road authority and send the $$ in or pay it at one of the other booths (when you have the coins/$$) and get a reciept for the extra toll Simple as that. No reason to be regularly running toll booths. Red light violations? Again, I don't advocate it. As a matter of fact, it pretty much pisses me off! Too many people get injured and killed as a result of this. As well, I've watched as many as 6 cars go through an intersection after the red light, simply because they were too lazy, in too much of a hurry or too important, to wait for the next cycle But I still don't care for the "big brother" routine Damaging state owned property will get you jail time, simple as that. But it is true, we're allowing our government, from the bottom to the top, to eat away at our freedoms and liberties for various reasons. That said, on the road you are in the public domain and being photographed is not protected. As well, driving is a priviledge not a right, and as such, we are pretty much forced into going along with whatever BS regs the state wishes to impose on us. All I can suggest is: 1) Watch your State officials! Keep an eye on pending bills and legislation. If you see something you're not comfortable with, start immediatly to do something about it! Once a bill becomes law, it's almost impossible to have it removed. 2VOTE!! Use what little power you have effectively. See what your elected officials have been doing and make an informed decision. As far as I'm concerned we pretty much need a house cleaning or an oil change, every few years regardless. I know there are some that do a good job and it might benefit certain groups to keep them in place, but they still need to go. Our government, again from the bottom to the top, has forgotten who they work for When they get stupid, they need to get out! __________________ Remember: Artificial Intelligence is no replacement for Natural Stupidity! Be Polite, Be Professional...and have a plan to kill everyone you meet.