Well OK, I guess I am gullible. When someone says something, I tend to take them at face value and believe what they say. One of my major failings, for certain.
In any event, last year when I was looking for a Z06 Corvette, I first saw an ad for one that looked promising on Z06vette.com at this thread (which apparently has since been edited into obscurity):
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showt...294#post976294
I further tracked down this car to being offered on Ebay. Anyway, yes, I was a complete noob at C5 Corvettes and the Z06 variant, so when I saw this picture among others, it really meant nothing much to me concerning the wheels as I just didn't know enough about the models to realize there was an issue with this car.
http://www.corvetteflorida.com/pics/...riginal_02.jpg
After all, I had actually been looking at mostly regular C5s and nothing looked out of the ordinary to my untrained eye. And as you will see in some screen shots of the Ebay auction, this seller was presenting himself as a dealer (kellychevroletflorida), and claiming the car was in MINT condition. Now "MINT" to me simply meant
adj : as if new; "in mint condition". So quite frankly, with the ad taken at face value, I fully expected that car to be "as new".
So let's look at the pages I took as screen shots from the Ebay auction. First off, I apologize as when I took the screen shots, evidently there was some slight truncating of the right edge of the page. Nothing serious, but it does cut off a few letters of each line.
This page merely shows the ID name of Mike Rini that was being used for this auction, indicating that he was, in my opinion, representing an established dealership running this auction.
=============================
Now in this next page, notice that the ad claims that the vehicle was
INSPECTED
Well I find that just a bit difficult to believe. Neither of the front turn signals were working when I picked up the vehicle. Matter of fact, the lamps were clearly shattered as the amber glass was loose inside the housing and visible through the clear cover. I doubt this would have passed inspection. How those lamps became shattered, of course, is matter for some conjecture as well. Secondly, the front tires were bald down to the threads on the inside edges and certainly an inspection would have clearly shown that to be an issue as well.
============================
On page 3, this is the beginning of the actual textual description of the Z06 being offered in this Ebay auction.
Notice that it CLEARLY says
CHROME WHEELS. As best I can recall, the 2002 did not come stock (mint) with chrome wheels at all. Even considering that chrome wheels MAY have been on the vehicle at the time of the sale, they certainly were not when the photos were taken.
Also notice the mention of "EZ HIGHWAY MILES", which is quite puzzling because in further correspondence with Mr. Rini, he claimed the car had been taken in as a tradein, and he had no real knowledge of any history at all on this car. I guess "EZ HIGHWAY MILES" has the disconcerting habit of making the Z06 standard wheels change into regular C5 wheels, and cause some sort of impact to shatter the front turn signal bulbs. This apparently also caused very odd wear on the front tires to take the rubber off down to the threads on the inside edges. A curious situation that when I had an alignment done on the car after buying new tires AND wheels, was commented on by the people at Champion Chevrolet in Tallahassee that the current alignment of the vehicle could not have possible caused that sort of wear on those tires. The wear on those tires was done while they were on another vehicle and at sometime put on this Z06 before I purchased it.
Oh yeah, the "SMELLS, RUNS AS NEW!" quote needs mention as well. I never knew a new car to smell like some overpowering strawberry scenting that Mr. Rini had put right at the center A/C vent.
You will also note that Mr. Rini claimed in that ad that this vehicle came with
Sport Seats, which is completely untrue. The car has the standard seats within it, but certainly I did not know the difference at the time to be able to tell.
Also please note the comment about the car coming with a "BLACKWING AIR FILTER". This is absolutely untrue. It had something akin to the "wire tie" mod done to the original air cleaner, but was done in such a botched up way that outside completely unfiltered air was allowed to come in UNDER the filter element into the air intake system. I did not discover this one until I replaced the air cleaner system myself. But in any event, any knowledgeable Corvette person would have clearly seen and known that the air cleaner was NOT a Blackwing at all.
=======================
On to page 4 of the auction descriptive text.
In this generic text that was apparently cut and pasted within the ad, there is clear mention (somewhat truncated however) about the Z06 having larger tires with a bigger bite. Obviously this car did NOT have those larger tires, as the wheels and tires were off of a standard C5 and NOT what came standard on the Z06 at all.
And notice that the vehicle condition is CLEARLY noted as being "MINT". Well to me, "MINT" would not have the following issues that I discovered later on when the vette tech looked it over at Champion Chevrolet, as well as my own discoveries:
- Wheels and tires were not standard for a 2002 Z06
- Both front tires were worn down on the inside edges to the threads
- Both front turn signals were nonfunctional and the shattered glass from the bulbs still within the housing.
- A noticeable scrape mark on the undercarriage of the vehicle.
- The plastic mouldings above both the driver and the passenger doors were apparently cut for some reason.
- One of the floor mat holddowns on the driver side floor was partially ripped out of the carpet.
- The air cleaner was modified in such a way to allow unfiltered air into the engine. The upper portion of the air cleaner is completely missing
- The horn is barely functional, with apparently the low frequenty horn being dead
- The vehicle did not come with the standard Z06 tire inflator in the trunk.
As for it being "garaged" and "pampered", the number of rock chips on the front of the vehicle belie those statements. And considering the professed lack of knowledge of the past history of this car by Mr. Rini, I would have to wonder how he could even know such a thing to make these sorts of claims.
Well I guess to round this out, I will simply append the various emails that took place between Mr. Mike Rini and myself concerning this transaction.
Quote:
From: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
To: <rich@serpenco.com>
Subject: RE: 2002 Z06 Corvette
Date: Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:35 AM
hi. im a dealer out of my home. you would have to pay me the sales tax and
tag transfer. i bought the car from vista bmw. it was a new car
tradein....clean carfax, no
problems....http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MESE%3AIT&rd=1
>From: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>Reply-To: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>To: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
>Subject: 2002 Z06 Corvette
>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 03:58:03 -0400
>
>I am interested in the Corvette you are offering. Can you provide more
>information for me? More pics would be nice as well as VIN and some
>history about ownership that you know of. I am located near Tallahassee,
>FL and would want to drive down to do a face to face purchase.
|
Quote:
From: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
To: <rich@serpenco.com>
Subject: Re: 2002 Z06 Corvette
Date: Saturday, September 24, 2005 6:03 PM
rich....if car aint in excellent condition with at most a few minor hairline
normal scratches from being a used car i would not leave you bad feedback if
you passed on the deal....im a family man enjoying buying and selling sport
cars as a hobby from home!!im not out to hurt anyone.a test drive is
welcomed!!!im driving it and loveing it!!!i just put in a new air filter
today..performance is incredible...
thanks,
mike...954-336-2238
>From: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>Reply-To: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>To: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: 2002 Z06 Corvette
>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:26:54 -0400
>
>Ah. The auction complicates things. I wanted to drive down to see the car
>with the intention of handing over the money if it looked in excellent
>condition. But now this puts me in a real bind. If I win the auction, I
>am then obligated even if I find it less then I had hoped for. I am
>definitely interested, but the auction removed the safety net from the
>deal. Can we come to some sort of gentleman's agreement? If I win the
>auction and a test drive uncovers one or more significant concerns, can I
>back away from it? Yeah, I know it puts you on the spot as well, but I hope
>we both can be reasonable about it enough to work this out.
>
>At the very least I would want a statement that the car is in mint
>condition with no known problems.
>
>It would be Monday at the earliest anyway before I could go to the bank and
>get money in hand. But I am very interested in the car.
>
>Thanks.
|
Quote:
From: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
To: <rich@serpenco.com>
Subject: Re: michael rini jr has sent you an eBay Money Request with PayPal (Routing Code: C840-L001-Q999-T5350)
Date: Sunday, September 25, 2005 8:22 AM
hi.ill need a copy of your:
drivers license:
insurance card:
registration for the tag/plate:
rich.....if you want to consider having the car shipped i can get it to you
for 300.00...trust me, the car is as close to mint as can be
expected.....you got a 1000 mile/1 month warranty thru ebay.i think you have
to activate it?
if you still want to make the drive im looking forward to meeting you and we
can enjoy the z06 together  ..
thanks,
michael rini.
19203 sw 60th ct
pembroke pines, fl
33332
>From: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>Reply-To: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>To: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: michael rini jr has sent you an eBay Money Request with PayPal
> (Routing Code: C840-L001-Q999-T5350)
>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 03:33:58 -0400
>
>PayPalMike,
>
>As you probably already know by now, I paid the deposit you requested on
>that blue Corvette. Thanks for sending the payment request. It's easier
>that way. I got tied up with some work around here and lost track of time.
>
>I've been checking out the map and it appears that Pembroke Pines will be
>close to a 9 hour drive for us. It would be a pretty grueling haul to do
>that trip down and back home again all in one day, so if it is OK with you
>what I would like to do is to plan on getting down there on Friday. We
>would leave here on Thursday afternoon or so, spend the night on the road,
>and get to your place early on Friday so you could call my bank to verify
>the certified check I will be bringing. Does that sound OK to you? I
>would like to get down there earlier, but there are a few things going on
>around here that will prevent me from being able to do that.
>
>I may be able to bring a tag transferred from one of my vehicles. We're
>got two Chevy vans here and are going to try to get rid of the older one
>before we head down there. But I'll have all those details ironed out
>early in the week.
>
>Please let me know what I need to bring down with me to make the
>transaction as smooth as possible. I believe you mentioned a few documents
>I will need copies of, so please itemize those for me so I don't forget
>something.
>
>Thanks.
|
Quote:
From: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
To: <rich@serpenco.com>
Subject: Re: michael rini jr has sent you an eBay Money Request with PayPal (Routing Code: C840-L001-Q999-T5350)
Date: Sunday, September 25, 2005 11:40 AM
ebay warranty specifically dont cover zr1 models...i know the car is awesome
so i look forward to driving with you....the vista motor company that sold
it to me took it on trade. they dont have records or history.you might want
to try your local chevy dealer and see if they have any records..ill look
through the books i have and see if there are any records.
friday will be ok....i go to dealer auction in a.m. and am back by 11:00
a.m.////then im home all day waiting for my 4 rugrats to get home
thanks,
mike
>From: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>Reply-To: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>To: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: michael rini jr has sent you an eBay Money Request with PayPal
>(Routing Code: C840-L001-Q999-T5350)
>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:23:14 -0400
>
>Mike,
>
>Honestly, I would feel like a fool just sending off $28K+ to someone and
>buying something sight unseen. That is a lot of money to me. Maybe not to
>everyone, but it is to me. It would just make me feel better knowing that
>I did everything reasonably possible to make sure I was getting what I
>wanted. So I think that long drive is worth it just for that attempt at
>peace of mind. Hope you understand my position. Hate to put you out by
>having to allocate some of your day for a personal visit. But on the
>bright side (to me anyway) I will get to spend some quality time with my
>new vette on the drive back home on Friday. Besides, all things
>considered, this is actually the fastest way to get myself behind the wheel
>of that car......
>
>I do hope this plan I outlined is OK with you.
>
>BTW, do you have a contact person's name at Vista BMW who you dealt with to
>get this car from? I would like to ask him/her about any history they know
>about this car. I believe you told me it was a tradein, but maybe whoever
>did the deal knows something more about it. Just curious.
>
>As for the Ebay warranty, it specifically does not cover Corvette Z06
>models.  Thanks for the third party warranty info you sent me in
>another email. I'll call them on Monday.
>
>Anyway, please let me know about coming down there on Friday.
>
>Oh, did you get the PayPal deposit OK?
>
>Thanks.
|
Quote:
From: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
To: <rich@serpenco.com>
Subject: Re: michael rini jr has sent you an eBay Money Request with PayPal (Routing Code: C840-L001-Q999-T5350)
Date: Sunday, September 25, 2005 10:07 PM
my neighbor RAY HOKE is a bigwig with kelley chevrolet and i just found out
he is affiliated with u.s. warranty.....ill have to update all my future
ebay auctions ..ill get you a quote tommorrow....
thanks,
mike
>From: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>Reply-To: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>To: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: michael rini jr has sent you an eBay Money Request with PayPal
>(Routing Code: C840-L001-Q999-T5350)
>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:48:58 -0400
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>Is there any way to get a GM extended warranty for this Z06 through Kelley
>Chevrolet? I've been checking on some websites and it appears that many of
>the companies offering extended warranties specifically exclude the Z06
>Corvette. I figure since you are a dealer representing Kelley, maybe you
>could swing this.
>
>Are you going to have the gas tank filled up for me?
>
> 2002 Corvette Z06
>
>
> Sale Price
> $28,000.00
>
> Dealer Fees
> $189.00
>
> 6% sales tax
> $1,680.00
>
> Tag Transfer
> $145.00
>
> Subtotal=
> $30,014.00
>
> PayPal deposit
> -$1,000.00
>
>
>
>
> Total due upon delivery=
> $29,014.00
>
>
>
>I worked up the figures for what $$ I need to bring with me, so would you
>mind double checking them and make sure I have this correct?
>
>Thanks.
|
Quote:
From: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
To: <rich@serpenco.com>
Subject: RE: Wheels and tires problem.
Date: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:01 PM
RICH...your kidding right. those were pictured in many pics. the magnesium
is a upgrade from chrome. i offered you chrome and you stuck with these.
sorry, but if you want different wheels thats on you.
mike
>From: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>Reply-To: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>To: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Wheels and tires problem.
>Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:56:07 -0400
>
>Mike,
>
>I'm really bummed out. Just got back from the Chevy dealer today. Went in
>for an oil change, had to have the front turn signal sockets replaced, and
>got a new set of keys made up. Cost me $600 when all was said and done.
>The corvette tech guy came into the waiting room to show me something. The
>front tires on that car are shot. Showing threads on the inside edges and
>need to be replaced NOW. The wear pattern also means a 4 wheel alignment
>will be necessary when I get new treads put on. The rear ones are worn in
>the center and will need to be replaced SOON as well. I was expecting to
>have to replace those tires, and that isn't that big of a deal, although I
>wish I didn't have to do it right now and fear for them causing me a
>problem if I had wanted to take a trip with that car beforehand. The tech
>recommended that I drive on them as little as possible until I get
>replacements.
>
>The tech and I were looking things over underneath, as I told him I just
>picked the car up on Friday, and he asked me why I had put stock Corvette
>C5 wheels on a Z06. ??? He said those wheels are what comes standard on
>the regular C5 and NOT an upgrade as you had mentioned in a phone
>conversation with me concerning them. Matter of fact, I looked up the
>original ad you had on Z06Vette.com, and it specifically states "2002 z06
>electron blue,hud,chrome wheels ". Further I checked things out on the
>driver's side door where it lists the tire sizes that are SUPPOSED to be on
>this vehicle. It states:
>
>Front P265/40/ZR17
>Rear P295/35/ZR18
>
>What is on this vehicle is the following:
>
>Front P245/45/ZR17
>Rear P275/40/ZR18
>
>The wheels are correspondingly smaller to accomodate those smaller tires.
>The standard front wheels are 17 x 8.5 whereas the Z06 wheels are 17 x 9.5.
>The standard rear wheels are 18 x 9.5 whereas the Z06 wheels are 18 x 10.5.
>
>Now I was resigned to the fact that I would have to get new tires for that
>vehicle, and you indicated that the $500 you knocked off of the price would
>compensate for that situation, but I was not prepared to have to buy all
>new wheels as well.
>
>Apparently the real Z06 wheels and tires were switched out for standard
>Covette C5 wheels and tires, and I got the short end of the stick on that
>deal. Quite frankly I was (and still am) too inexperienced with Corvette
>style wheels and options to be able to tell one from the other by simply
>eyeballing them. But now that the details were pointed out to me by the
>Corvette tech I talked to at Champion Chevrolet, I can positively see that
>I did not get a 100 percent Z06 Corvette. And those wheels are DEFINITELY
>not a higher value trade up for a Z06 either, as you had told me.
>
>Can you help me turn this around and not have this "kicked in the head"
>feeling I now have? What I want is to have the TRUE Z06 wheels on my car
>that I bought from you and as I was told I was getting. What I want is
>what I had paid for. I am willing to buy the new tires, but I believe the
>wheels should be your baby. You probably have enough connections to make
>this so without a substantial financial loss, so I am asking you to help me
>out here with this problem.
>
>Please get back to me ASAP so we can iron this out.
>
>Thanks.
|
Quote:
From: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
To: <rich@serpenco.com>
Subject: RE: Wheels and tires problem.
Date: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:06 PM
i said magnesium wheels are more expensive then chrome.in my books all
magnesium wheels add a premium.i offered you the chrome rich.i took off 500
for tires.
im sorry, but our deal was done...i sold you the car with them wheels and
tires and you were happy...
mike
|
Quote:
From: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
To: <rich@serpenco.com>
Subject: Re: Wheels and tires problem.
Date: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:01 PM
and believe me rich, im a lil shocked you think im supposed to go buy you
new wheels when its clear as day the wheels on car in pics are what you got
and you picked up the car and bought it as it was.im sorry rich but you have
to be fair with me also.
mike
>From: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>Reply-To: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>To: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Wheels and tires problem.
>Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 14:52:53 -0400
>
>Mike,
>
>How was I supposed to know those wheels were NOT OEM for the Z06? I only
>had your ad and description to go by. You told me those wheels were an
>upgrade from the stock Z06 wheels, which certainly implied they were the
>correct size for that car. The plate on the driver's side door itself
>shows the size of the tires that the Z06 is designed for and those tires
>and wheels are definitely not for that car. The wheels for the Z06 are a
>full 1 inch wider then those wheels on the vehicle you sold me.
>
>You did not tell me that the chrome wheels were a different size, now did
>you? You simply said that the wheels were chrome and the ones on the Z06
>were magnesium, implying that everything else about them was the same.
>Plus your ad on Ebay states this: "The large tires with a bigger bite give
>Z06 extremely crisp turn-in from its Magnasteer rack-and-pinion steering
>system" What exactly does that mean? Those tires you have on that vehicle
>are NOT larger then what comes standard on the regular C5 vette, but your
>text ad certainly indicates that they are.
>
>I must say I am disappointed you are just washing your hands of this. I
>thought you seemed more ethical then this implies.
|
Quote:
From: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
To: <rich@serpenco.com>
Subject: Re: Wheels and tires problem.
Date: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:06 PM
no rich, you werent shafted. i aint throwing any money your way because i
did nothing wrong.
there was no intention to mislead you in any way. the pics were of the car
you bought, you picked up the car in person!!!!!!!! you were completely
satisfied then,
mike.....BTW RICH REMEMBER WHEN YOU SHOWED ME THE KBB PRICE WAS 30500.00 AND
I SAID YOU OWE ME 2500.00 BUX...DID YOU SHAFT ME??
come on rich,,,be a man about this,
mike
>From: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>Reply-To: "serpenco" <rich@serpenco.com>
>To: <tensecondmonster@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Wheels and tires problem.
>Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:53:32 -0400
>
>Mike,
>
>Honestly, Mike, in a sense I do see your point in this. But I do hope you
>see mine as well. I trusted you that your word was good and accurate about
>what you were selling. I assumed "Mint" meant with all original OEM parts.
>Are you telling me you did NOT know those wheels and tires were not stock
>for the Z06? Were the chrome ones on that other vette stock Z06 models?
>
>Can we come to some sort of compromise here? Can you at least help me with
>the cost of those original wheels for this vehicle? Is that asking too
>much of you? I have been looking around and can get a complete set of
>either OEM or repros for $750 to $850. Can you at least throw me a bone so
>I don't feel I was shafted in this?
|