Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z
Yeah, the real problem with the justice system, the political system, and the Constitution itself is that it presumes that it will be managed and enforced by honest, fair, and altruistic individuals. When it comes right down to it, it's really not a failure of the systems themselves, it's just the simple fact of the matter that PEOPLE are flawed, and no system can really fix that kind of a problem. Power over others just tends to corrupt those wielding that power, because that's just the way people are. Heck if people were perfect, I guess there really wouldn't be a need for much of the justice system then, now would it?
Nope!
But something tells me that if such systems were completely run by computers running strictly off of rules and logic, and everything was flatly black or white, with no gray areas allowing personal discretion, no one would be happy about that type of a system neither.
Nope!
Anyway, glad the guy got caught, and glad no one else got hurt during that event.
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Yep!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 85vette
Most likely a lack of communication. I don't know the details of the stop, but it obviously wasn't a felony stop or this would not have happened. Most likely it was a "routine" traffic stop, probably for a traffic violation. In which case the officer would make contact with the person(s) and run them for local checks. If there was a warrant from another agency it would not show up on a local check. NCIC would show it, but unless they felt they had a reason to run him NCIC they don't. Maybe more details will be released and we can get a better idea of what really happened. Generally I observe the subject's demeanor on a traffic stop to see if they are agitated, nervous, etc. That sets the tone for my level of response, as it should. But, not having been there I can only speculate on what went wrong. But I wouldn't be too quick to condemn the agency until more is known. It's a tragedy that should not have happened, but there are many variables that likely contributed to this disaster. Pray that we all can learn from it and not fall to complacency.
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This is key!
We hae to learn, make changes and try not to allow such things to occur again.
FWIW-Mickey's right....and so is 85
You seldom know the whole story when you make a traffic stop.
I can't tell you how many of my generic, BS, tail light out, tag a month expired, traffic stops, turned into felonies very quickly!!
That's how patrol ends up clearing so many felony warrants and cases. It's a numbers game.
If it were a known felony, the stop from beginning to end, would have been handled differently.
Having attended the funeral on Saturday, I learned a lot about these 2 officers. It seems they really had thier **** together. That said, what went wrong?
There's dash cam footage. It will be reviewed, reviewed and reviewd again, until we figure out what went wrong?
The radio comms will be pulled as will computer traffic.
Everyone's response will be checked and double checked to determine what the officers did and did not know, and what they "should" have known.
As for the "intel", that's always been a problem between patrol and detectives
Over the years it's gotten a little better, and more information flows "down" the pipe, but still, if he's only a "person of interest" they may not have had enough to put the word out. Who knows? Maybe TPD policy needs to be reviewed as it regards mediocre intelligence info?
I'm sure these questions will be discussed.
NCIC/FCIC used to be simultaneous. In fact, you had to request only FCIC to get just that. Not sure how the systems are set up today, but I'll know within a few hours.
And no one wants to say it, but there may have been some tactical errors made on the part of the officers. It's hard as hell to get 2 officers killed the way they were killed and never get off a shot
I learned that bothg officers had less than 7 years on the job. Both were very serious about thier jobs and training. That they both trained hard and that one was near the top of his academy class in defensive tactics. Both like to go shooting. One was an accomplished martial artist and enjoyed MMA style fighting. One was a football player.....so what went wrong?
Time and review will tell.
I've never been a big supporter of the new Chief for my own personal reasons; however, after this, I've gained a whole new respect for her. I don't "think" she'll sweep this under the rug. I "think" she'll dig to find the answers without head hunting and trying to point fingers of "blame."
...and that my friends, is how you get things done
Let's give the families and the officers time to grieve. Time to get past this (as much as possible) and time to review the scenarios, and we shoudl see some changes.
It's over. Nothing we can do will change what has already happened. No amount of finger pointing or quarterbacking, will bring the officers back.
The best we can do now, is try to learn from this terrible tragedy, like we did with Ricky & Randy's murder at the hands of that maggot Carr, and try to keep it from happening to another officer.
I think from what I learned about these 2 guys on Saturday, their position would be:
...Time to learn from the situation and move forward
R.I.P. young brothers