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Unread 10-14-2012, 08:57 AM   #1881
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Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
While I had the compressor housing off of the turbo, I figured I would see what sort of play I had in that turbo shaft. I have NO idea what is acceptable play, so I took a video in the hopes someone here knows. I was actually surprised that oil didn't come gushing out when I pulled that housing off. There is some oil still in the compressor housing, but not really very much at all. So any leak in the seals on the shaft are likely very minute.....

Yeah,It's entirely too much!~!!!

I don't know exactly the spec's,But I do know thats Way,Way,excessive!~!!
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Unread 10-14-2012, 12:55 PM   #1882
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Yeah,It's entirely too much!~!!!

I don't know exactly the spec's,But I do know thats Way,Way,excessive!~!!
So, does the "" indicate you think this is a GOOD thing?
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Unread 10-14-2012, 06:49 PM   #1883
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So, does the "" indicate you think this is a GOOD thing?
It's a GOOD thing! A good thing that you found it ! Looks more like a "wobbulator" than a turbo. I think it's a VERY good idea on your part to have taken them apart and checked them out yourself. I see a rebuild of both turbos here shortly. Good thing one or both of them didn't let go while you were winding up thru the gears.........! THAT would have been a scary sound...... Probably a lot more expensive as well!
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Unread 10-14-2012, 07:16 PM   #1884
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Yeah, I guess you are right, but I was hoping to get a break sometime with this stuff. I'm waiting to hear back from Turbos Direct about this, but I doubt anything will come of that conversation. Luckily rebuild kits aren't very expensive, which surprised me since most places charge around $350 each to do a rebuild. And that's getting it to them in a box and their not having to pull it out of a car. Maybe there's more to it than I could gather from the videos I watched.... Heck, I've watched the videos enough times lately that I could probably do one right now without even referring back to them for guidance.

Guess I need to order a couple of rebuilt kits anyway. I'm assuming this is what people refer to as a T3/T4 hybrid turbo. T3 turbine combined with a T4 compressor. Oh well, I'll be learning how to do something new, I suppose.

I'm actually toying with the idea of redoing ALL the threaded holes in the compressor housings just in case the others got overtightened, but not to the point where the threads let loose. Yet...
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Unread 10-15-2012, 07:20 AM   #1885
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So, does the "" indicate you think this is a GOOD thing?
No!~!! It means that it has Way,Way too much clearance,And the thumb means "That is Gospel"!
I've seen Power Stroke Diesel Ford trucks with 300,000 miles and not have the clearance that one has!
My guess is that either someone didn't know what they were doing,Or it's never been rebuilt!!
With no more miles than that one is supposed to have on it you should need a dial indicator to detect any excessive movement!

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Originally Posted by navy2kcoupe View Post
It's a GOOD thing! A good thing that you found it ! Looks more like a "wobbulator" than a turbo. I think it's a VERY good idea on your part to have taken them apart and checked them out yourself. I see a rebuild of both turbos here shortly.
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Unread 10-15-2012, 11:14 AM   #1886
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No!~!! It means that it has Way,Way too much clearance,And the thumb means "That is Gospel"!
I've seen Power Stroke Diesel Ford trucks with 300,000 miles and not have the clearance that one has!
My guess is that either someone didn't know what they were doing,Or it's never been rebuilt!!
With no more miles than that one is supposed to have on it you should need a dial indicator to detect any excessive movement!

Well, I know there are different turbine housings on the turbos now than when I had the car towed to Aaron Scott's shop. But I guess you are right, that doesn't mean they were actually rebuilt with new bearings and seals. Just different housings could have been put on them. I would have to check back in this thread to see when Aaron Scott actually put those "rebuilt" turbos on my car, but I believe it was later on in the 14 months he had the car at his shop. He put a total of 400 miles on the car while he had it, and based on the tune, I seriously doubt he was able to push the engine much without getting REP failures. That wrong throttle body alone would likely have done that.

When I brought the car home the only times the engine was put into boost was a few times when Mike Carnahan was tuning it, and that one time I goosed it a little bit when I was trying to get used to the clutch and then heard that awful racket when I got off the gas and was engine braking to slow down. So those turbos really shouldn't have been stressed at all. I'm trying to think back how many miles I may have put on my car since November and I'm thinking it may be 800 or 900 miles. I think I just recently got the 500 break in miles on the new clutch, and I doubt I put more than 400 miles on it after getting the car back on the road before the drivetrain failure caused by the missing bellhousing bolts and the incorrect Pfadt driveshaft.

But that compressor housing seal being missing is a bad sign, I think, about SOMEONE's "quality" workmanship. The compressor housing mounting holes being stripped out is a bad sign concerning SOMEONE's just leaving their mistake and hoping I wouldn't have noticed it. Since that housing would have had to have been loosened to hook the turbo up to the STS plumbing, I think it's a pretty safe bet to assume that Aaron Scott stripped those bolt holes. As for the seal being missing, well, he shouldn't have had to have completely removed that housing, as far as I know, so that issue might have been from Turbos Direct. Quite honestly, based on what I later learned about Aaron Scott's attitude about me and my car, he may very well have directed Turbos Direct to just send me any old scrap, but passable, turbos they had laying around, and then charged me that $1,200 for them.

I'll be quite honest about it, from my own personal perspective based on my experiences with them and how they treated ME, I really can't see a hell of whole lot of difference between Chris Harwood and Aaron Scott.

So, do I rebuild these turbos hoping the housings themselves are OK, or start scraping up the dough to buy new ones?
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Unread 10-15-2012, 01:00 PM   #1887
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Damn.... I've been asking around about that shaft play and it's about an even split as to people saying it is OK or being too much.

Apparently journal bearing turbo shafts will have more play than bearing shafts. That's because when the engine is running, 30 to 50 psi of oil is being forced between the journal bearings and the shaft which takes up the play. That sounds logical to me.

But if that opinion is wrong, then what? Well, apparently the problem with shaft play is that the turbine vanes could strike the housings and therefore pretty much destroy the turbo. I would imagine something like that would make one hell of a racket, likely even before the total destruction of the turbo took place.

Turbos Direct did get back to me and offered to have me send the turbos back to them so they could take a look. I don't know what turnaround time would be, but I'm guessing close to three weeks all total from the day I send them out till the day I get them back. And they might very well just say that there is nothing wrong with them.

As for the compressor housing seal, someone told me that unless there is a groove in the housing for a seal, then it isn't needed. Honestly, I would think that any time you have two machined metal surfaces mating together that are supposed to hold water or air pressure, you would quite likely need some sort of seal in place. Not unless the tolerances are held VERY tightly during the machining. In this case, an air leak at the compressor housing means boost is being wasted which could increase spool up time.

So far I haven't found any place just selling the compressor housing seal alone. Only found kits that will provide it with all the other parts for a rebuild.

I may just very well buy a kit just for the seal, get the Helicoil thread repair kit, and just fix the threads, put the seal in that turbo housing, and call it a day. If there is excessive play in the shaft, and damage results eventually, then it's time to buy new turbos.

These thoughts are subject to change without notice, btw............
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Unread 10-15-2012, 03:35 PM   #1888
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Well, Turbos Direct is telling me that some turbos have seals in the compressor housing and some don't. Apparently mine don't. Another guy told me that the compressor housings that use seals will have a groove in them for the seal, which I don't see in that housing. He said he looked at the video and the wobble is not that bad. The important thing is that the shaft vanes don't hit the housings, which I don't see any evidence of.

Sooo, I think the best thing for me to do is to just get the Helicoil kit and fix those bolt holes that are stripped out. Slap it back together and hope for the best.

So we'll see.....
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Unread 10-15-2012, 07:42 PM   #1889
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Hi Rich, I agree with your assessment. After viewing the wobble present on your turbos, and doing some research on turbos, it's apparent some wobble is present in all...As long as the impellas do not touch the inner housing... If it was my car, I would fix the stripped out bolt holes with heli coyles and go from there...My humble opinion...
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Unread 10-15-2012, 07:48 PM   #1890
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Hi Rich, after viewing the wobble present on your turbos, and doing some viewing research on turbos, it's apparent some wobble is present...As long as the impellas do not touch the inner housing... If it was my car, I would fix the stripped out bolt holes with heli coyles and go from there...My humble opinion...
Yeah, that's my game plan. I'm hoping for the best. Thanks for taking the time to look into this for me.

BTW, Turbos Direct found the info on my turbos, and here's the specs on them:

Quote:
Looks like they are T3/T4. 57 trim on the comp side, and stage 3 on the turbine side. Each one is good for about 425-450hp at the crank.
Just putting this here in case I lose this info sometime down the road.
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