The ALL Florida Online Corvette Club








Corvette Top Sites

Go Back   The ALL Florida Online Corvette Club > The Lobby > General BS forum

      Photo Gallery Screen Saver!      

General BS forum I guess this will be for anything that would seem to be off topic in any other forum here. Just general shootin' the breeze kind of topics.

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 03-23-2008, 01:41 PM   #1
Z06 Rocket
Senior Member
 
Z06 Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,640
Name :
Z06 Rocket is on a distinguished road
Default Police in Rising Arms Race With Crooks

I will preface this story with my own opinion. I believe that there is a general lack of concern in the worst parts of society towards law enforcement. The crimes have been increasingly more violent, and the reaction to being caught and arrested has become more violent as well. There was a day in time that only the worst 1% of the bad guys chose to intentionally shoot it out with the police or ambush a police officer. Now we have situations where bad guys are looking for police to attack. One example is the shooting ambush and death of Sgt Ron Harrison in Hillsborough County recently. The article wants to blame the gun ban expiring, however I don't see "assault rifles" being the issue. Handguns are still the primary problem around FL. The Ban did not address them. The thugs are just getting more and more violent all the way around.

If you look at countries like Australia and the UK you will see that banishing all but the few "hunting rifles" that have to be disassembled and locked in a safe you will see crime flourishing. Home invasions went up something like 400%, and knife attacks 500% (no exact references-just my memory of previous articles). Deaths still occur regardless of the weapon, but now the criminals are not afraid of the citizen protecting himself.

One final thought:

If we out law guns, only outlaws will have guns.

By KEITH RIDLER
BOISE, Idaho (AP) -- The 30-year-old mother of three jumped from her disabled SUV following a chase, holding a gun to her head to keep police back. Officers fired a stun gun but the nonlethal weapon was foiled by her heavy coat.

When she pointed her handgun at the two nearest deputies, officers switched to assault rifles, hitting Sarah Marie Stanfield of Boise eight times with bullets designed to break apart on impact to increase internal damage. She died last fall of multiple gunshot wounds.

Some jurisdictions across the U.S. have been arming rank-and-file officers with high-powered assault rifles for a decade or more. But law enforcement officials say that trend has accelerated in the last year because of greater numbers of shootouts, standoffs in which police were outgunned, rising officer deaths and mass shootings of civilians by heavily armed gunmen.

"If you get into a fire fight, you want to be the winner," said Scott Knight, police chief of Chaska, Minn., and chairman of the firearms committee for the International Association of Chiefs of Police. "Our departments are moving to those weapons out of necessity across the country."

Chaska, 25 miles southwest of Minneapolis, is a town of only about 24,000, but earlier this month Knight ordered the department's first 10 assault rifles, each with two 30-round magazines.

Only patchwork information is available on how many other law enforcement agencies are outfitting deputies and patrol officers with assault rifles, the kind of firepower once reserved for specialized SWAT teams. But from Chaska to Miami to college campuses, agencies are acquiring AR-15s or M-4s, both close relatives of the military's M-16. The rifles fire bullets with enough velocity to penetrate some types of body armor and have greater accuracy at longer range than handguns.

Last year, Miami Police Chief John Timoney authorized his patrol officers to carry AR-15s because of a rise in assault rifle use by criminals.

"This is a national problem. Police agencies all over the U.S. are going to bigger weapons," said Timoney, whose agency now has about 50 AR-15s and expects to get 150 more. He blames the 2004 expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons for the escalation of heavily armed violence.

In 2007, according to preliminary numbers compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 69 officers were shot to death, up from 52 in 2006 and the most in five years. Last year included six shootings where two or more officers were killed in the same event, fund spokesman Kevin Morison said.

"There just seems to be a more brazen, cold-blooded killers out there," he said.

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence said it understands the moves to assault weapons. "Police officers need to be able to defend themselves and the rest of us, and they need the weapons to do so," said spokesman Peter Hamm.

Law enforcement officials say the trend toward issuing assault rifles to regular patrol officers started in Los Angeles after a 1997 shootout following a botched bank robbery. Two heavily armed men wore body armor that stopped 9 mm bullets fired by the handguns carried by police, 11 of whom were injured along with six civilians. The two robbers were eventually killed. The Los Angeles Police Department now issues AR-15s.

Two years later, police began rethinking a strategy of securing areas and waiting for negotiators and SWAT teams after two teens killing 13 people and wounded two dozen others at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.

Campus police at Arizona's three large public universities are being armed with assault rifles. Officials say the weapons will enable officers to shoot at targets at the ends of long hallways or atop tall buildings.

In the Idaho case, an investigation cleared the deputies earlier this month, noting they initially risked their lives by attempting to use nonlethal means before firing their assault rifles.

"Any time that we perceive great bodily harm or death may result, we may take action," said Ada County Sheriff's Lt. Scott Johnson.

___

On the Net:
http://www.nleomf.org/
http://www.theiacp.org/
http://www.bradycenter.org/
Z06 Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2008, 08:25 AM   #2
larrybroga
Vett'n since 1961
 
larrybroga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seminole in Pinellas County
Posts: 180
Name : Larry Broga
larrybroga is on a distinguished road
Default

This problem will continue to exist as long as there is an ACLU, ruthless criminal defense attorneys and bleeding heart liberals in Washington (two of which are running for Commander in Chief). Just a retired LEO's opinion !!!
__________________

Growing old is inevitable !
Growing up is optional !!!!
larrybroga is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2008, 09:37 AM   #3
Shadow
Senior Member
 
Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: port of indecision
Posts: 5,604
Name :
Shadow will become famous soon enough
Default

Another retired LEO's opinion.

I don't blame the ACLU or the attorneys. I've worked on both sides of the fence and see the need for the balance inthe criminal justice system.

I've seen, no proven, that LEO's have purjured themselves in deposition, in written report form and in court And the courts and in most cases, the agencies, have done nothing about it

We need the above to help maintain the balance within the system.

That said, I blame the proliferation and increase in violent attacks on lw enforcement on two (2) groups:

1) the COURTS
2) The AGENCIES.

The courts simply because they continue to hand out candy arsed, pat 'em on the arse sentences to those convicted of criminal acts and keep reducing the charges to gain a conviction ratio.

While I'm at it, I'll heap a little of that same blame on the States Attorneys Offices that ALLOW those plea bargains! There's a time and place to accept a plea. Violent crime time "AIN'T IT!"

The agencies for adopting pansy azzed politically correct training regimines and policies.

I remember in the 70's when I started, if you raised your hand to a LEO, you likely needed dental work once you were released from booking

I recall way too many days sitting in in service training, listening to "Human Diversity" insutructors who had never been in the field. ADministration types encouraging a kinder gentler deputy, and civil attorneys from the agency drilling us on the "don't get us sued" policies coming into effect.

Weapons training was cut to a bare minimum, tactical driving, and unarmed defense as well.

The PT program, designed to get the officers in shape to handle a violent criminal, was done away with due to input from the ADA????

All this within the 4th largest Sheriff's Office in the country

I've worked for them as well as one of the smallest Mayberry types you can imagine. Of the 2, Mayberry had the most aggressive officer defense program....

Arming officers with high powered "assault" rifles is great if they have time to withdrw them and bring the to bear. The problem is just that. YOu generally can't keep them with you at all times and having them "flopping around" in the middle of a tussle with a bad guy, is generally not a good idea.

They're great for standoff's and scenarios such as stated above, although, a few well placed high powered handgun rounds would have been just as effective. One of our female officers proved that with a knife weilding mexican in southern Hillsborough Courty. He approached, disregarded her warnings and 1 shot, 1 kill! center mass

Training, a change in policy and politics and better weapons (sidearms) will be a more effective cure for the day to day violence.

Mall and school rampages? Yep, bring out the AR's

Just another opinion.
Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2008, 12:54 PM   #4
Rich Z
Internet Sanitation Engineer
 
Rich Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Crawfordville, FL
Posts: 15,127
Name : Rich Zuchowski
Rich Z will become famous soon enoughRich Z will become famous soon enough
Default

Pretty typical of planned legislation getting the way greased with op-ed "discussions" in the newspapers. The fluff about the assault weapons ban expiration being the cause for increased violence would make good fertilizer in anyone's garden.

Got a news flash: The assault weapon ban didn't stop the sale of assault style weapons at all. The only difference between a "pre-ban" gun and a "post-ban" gun (besides the price tag) was that the post ban didn't have a flash suppressor, folding stock and bayonet lug. Whoopdie doo... I'm sure those minor deletions in the manufacturing process REALLY made a big difference in the functionality of the gun. What the anti-gunners did was to take something like an AR-15, set it on a table and figure out what it was about them that made them so scary looking to them. So they used that description to pass a law against them based on DESCRIPTION and nothing else. Assault weapons available to the public are semi-automatic, NOT machine guns like the press tried to foist on everyone. They are generally less accurate than your Uncle Bill's hunting rifle, and truth be known, the ammunition used in an assault weapon is considered of only moderate power. A 30-06 in a hunting rifle will do a HELL of a lot more damage than a 5.56 round in an AR-15 will do.

So if criminal aggression increased since the expiration of the assault weapons ban, it's not the guns, stupid. It's the people. As has been pointed out, if you make law enforcement ineffective, prosecution unlikely, and the penalties less harsh than their living conditions already are, what do you THINK will be the result? When the economic situation gets desperate for some people, getting caught committing a crime and going to jail will be a step UP in their living conditions. So what's the incentive to NOT engage in crime?

And I'll tell you something else. With the policies in place from Washington D.C. with NAFTA, outsourcing our jobs, no restrictions on illegal immigration, no protections to our own industrial base from dumping of cheap foreign made products, and an apparent complete lack of concern from our elected officials to put America first, things are going to get MUCH worse. If you have illegal immigrants taking all the low paying jobs, and all the higher paying jobs being outsourced, with the blue collar manufacturing jobs moving offshore with the companies moving their operations, what is going to be left in America for US? I'll tell you what. A bunch of unemployed desperate people with no possibility of them being able to pull themselves out of the problem. No jobs means no income means no food on the table. NO one will just let their family starve.

It's no damned wonder that the government would like to disarm us. They KNOW that what they are doing is going to have a bunch of desperate pissed off people in the streets.

You think things are bad now? You ain't seen NOTHING yet......
__________________
Rich Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2008, 06:30 PM   #5
coolassbrad
Member
 
coolassbrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: thonotosassa fl
Posts: 140
Name :
coolassbrad is on a distinguished road
Default

the world is going to hell fast buy your guns now.
coolassbrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2008, 09:53 PM   #6
Shadow
Senior Member
 
Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: port of indecision
Posts: 5,604
Name :
Shadow will become famous soon enough
Default

If they take away my guns, then I'll kill you with an ink pen....now what they gonna do?

"Stupid is as stupid does"....Forrest Gump
Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2008, 09:59 PM   #7
Rich Z
Internet Sanitation Engineer
 
Rich Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Crawfordville, FL
Posts: 15,127
Name : Rich Zuchowski
Rich Z will become famous soon enoughRich Z will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
If they take away my guns, then I'll kill you with an ink pen....now what they gonna do?

"Stupid is as stupid does"....Forrest Gump
Hell, I guess I'd much rather die that way.........

Hell, me and all my assault rifles haven't killed as many people as Ted Kennedy did with his car......
__________________
Rich Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2008, 10:02 PM   #8
LS2POWA
Team Afterhours Member
 
LS2POWA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bradenton, Fl.
Posts: 765
Name : Corey Metz
LS2POWA is on a distinguished road
Default

Id love for them to ban guns, take guns way...given ill make sure mine stay at home where they belong. but let some of these new found tree huggers get car jacked or shot at by a criminal. the same people who wanna enforce these laws more then likely dont even live on this planet let alone not think everyone can drive around in 100k+ $ cars and wipe our arses with 100$ bills.
__________________
Beware the snake bite.....
LS2POWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tampa Police Say Race Leads To Crash, Injuries, Charges RSS Feed Florida News Feeds 0 11-01-2007 04:41 PM
Ex-Officer Accused of Firing at Florida Police RSS Feed The Police Blotter 1 09-22-2007 02:09 PM
Miami to arm police with assault weapons zzzona The Police Blotter 14 09-17-2007 11:14 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.07293200 seconds with 11 queries
All material copyrighted by CorvetteFlorida.com and
the respective owners of the material posted.