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Unread 05-04-2010, 11:16 AM   #1
Rich Z
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Default Oil spill - the end of fresh Florida seafood?

Man, this looks SERIOUS.

http://cnmnewsnetwork.com/111283/oil...s-action-suit/

Connie works part time for a fresh seafood market in Panacea, and the owner (Debbie Logan) is really worried that her business will be dead without product to sell. And quite rightly so. This could dramatically affect all of Florida. Tourism will be dead because who the heck wants to walk on oil soaked sandy beaches or swim in oil covered water? Both commercial and sport fishing will also be affected. So with those all being socked on the chin, how much impact will that have on the money that tourism brings to this state? The economy already sucks as it is, so things go get very serious financially with the state of Florida.

Not to mention that I'm PERSONALLY going to wither away and die if I can't get freshly caught Gulf shrimp to eat..........

Oh yeah, last I heard they don't know how to stop the flow of oil and there is a possibility that the pipe could blow out completely, increasing the flow 10 fold...... Lovely.... We could be talking about a completely sterilized Gulf of Mexico and surrounding wetlands.

This sounds like a disaster unfolding before our very eyes.
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Unread 05-04-2010, 12:01 PM   #2
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It could be the end of seafood in eastern US as we know it...if leak persists and is picked up by gulf loop current it would snake its way down west coast of Fl and meet up with gufstream on east coast and be in New England within a month...Suggest we all enjoy what seafood is available while it is still around...
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Unread 05-04-2010, 01:00 PM   #3
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Not ready to throw in the towel just yet

There are too many people that actually have a clue (not necessarily gov't officials (other than the Coast Guard) how to deal with the issue that are hard at work on it.

A bigg factor is going to be the weather.

Clean up crews can't do thier job in foul weather. You can't skim oil or effectively boom and contain an area, in rough seas. (ask me how I know).

Dispersants and cooagulating agents aren't so effective when the wind whips them into a frenzy

And in some cases, the aircraft can't fly to disperse them

Let's hope the weather in the effected areas clears and stays that way.
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Unread 05-04-2010, 01:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Dispersants and cooagulating agents aren't so effective when the wind whips them into a frenzy
I'm curious about this. What exactly to dispersants DO to the oil? I know the general definition of the term, but when specifically applied to oil on water, what is the oil changed to and where does it go?

As for coagulating agents, that implies to me that the oil congeals in some manner and then likely becomes heavier than water and therefor sinks. Is the floorbed of the Gulf of Mexico being covered by this congealed mass really an effective solution to the potential environmental damage the oil being on TOP of the water can cause?

Can either of the above "fixes" fatally contaminate the entire Gulf of Mexico?

Yeah, this does have me worried.......
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Unread 05-04-2010, 01:29 PM   #5
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Someone on one of my other sites posted an email they received concerning this accident.

Quote:
You may have heard the news in the last two days about the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig which caught fire, burned for two days, then
sank in 5,000 ft of water in the Gulf of Mexico. There are still 11 men missing, and they are not expected to be found.
The rig belongs to Transocean, the world’s biggest offshore drilling contractor. The rig was originally contracted through the year 2013 to
BP and was working on BP’s Macondo exploration well when the fire broke out. The rig costs about $500,000 per day to contract. The full
drilling spread, with helicopters and support vessels and other services, will cost closer to $1,000,000 per day to operate in the course of
drilling for oil and gas. The rig cost about $350,000,000 to build in 2001 and would cost at least double that to replace today.
The rig represents the cutting edge of drilling technology. It is a floating rig, capable of working in up to 10,000 ft water depth. The rig is
not moored; It does not use anchors because it would be too costly and too heavy to suspend this mooring load from the floating
structure. Rather, a triply-redundant computer system uses satellite positioning to control powerful thrusters that keep the rig on station
within a few feet of its intended location, at all times. This is called Dynamic Positioning.
The rig had apparently just finished cementing steel casing in place at depths exceeding 18,000 ft. The next operation was to suspend the
well so that the rig could move to its next drilling location, the idea being that a rig would return to this well later in order to complete the
work necessary to bring the well into production.
It is thought that somehow formation fluids – oil /gas – got into the wellbore and were undetected until it was too late to take action. With a
floating drilling rig setup, because it moves with the waves, currents, and winds, all of the main pressure control equipment sits on the
seabed – the uppermost unmoving point in the well. This pressure control equipment – the Blowout Preventers, or ‘BOP’s” as they’re
called, are controlled with redundant systems from the rig. In the event of a serious emergency, there are multiple Panic Buttons to hit,
and even fail-safe Deadman systems that should be automatically engaged when something of this proportion breaks out. None of them
were aparently activated, suggesting that the blowout was especially swift to escalate at the surface. The flames were visible up to about
35 miles away. Not the glow – the flames. They were 200 – 300 ft high.
All of this will be investigated and it will be some months before all of the particulars are known. For now, it is enough to say that this
marvel of modern technology, which had been operating with an excellent safety record, has burned up and sunk taking souls with it.
The well still is apparently flowing oil, which is appearing at the surface as a slick. They have been working with remotely operated
vehicles, or ROV’s which are essentially tethered miniature submarines with manipulator arms and other equipment that can perform work
underwater while the operator sits on a vessel. These are what were used to explore the Titanic, among other things. Every floating rig
has one on board and they are in constant use. In this case, they are deploying ROV’s from dedicated service vessels. They have been
trying to close the well in using a specialized port on the BOP’s and a pumping arrangement on their ROV’s. They have been unsuccessful
so far. Specialized pollution control vessels have been scrambled to start working the spill, skimming the oil up.
In the coming weeks they will move in at least one other rig to drill a fresh well that will intersect the blowing one at its pay zone. They will
use technology that is capable of drilling from a floating rig, over 3 miles deep to an exact specific point in the earth – with a target radius
of just a few feet plus or minus. Once they intersect their target, a heavy fluid will be pumped that exceeds the formation’s pressure, thus
causing the flow to cease and rendering the well safe at last. It will take at least a couple of months to get this done, bringing all available
technology to bear. It will be an ecological disaster if the well flows all of the while; Optimistically, it could bridge off downhole.
It’s a sad day when something like this happens to any rig, but even more so when it happens to something on the cutting edge of our
capabilities.
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Unread 05-04-2010, 07:56 PM   #6
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The dispersants work much dishwashing liquid...they break up oil and settle to bottom which is very detrimental to sealife and plants...Like Shadow says, our only hope is the weather...Lets pray for no TS's or hurrican until this mess is over with...Marine biologist cannot say at this time what is worse, the oil itself or the dispersants proposed...Lets all keep our fingers crossed...what else could possibly happen now?
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Unread 05-04-2010, 08:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by als2052 View Post
The dispersants work much dishwashing liquid...they break up oil and settle to bottom which is very detrimental to sealife and plants...Like Shadow says, our only hope is the weather...Lets pray for no TS's or hurrican until this mess is over with...Marine biologist cannot say at this time what is worse, the oil itself or the dispersants proposed...Lets all keep our fingers crossed...what else could possibly happen now?
How about a Gulf of Mexico completely engulfed in flames?

Suppose they CAN'T shut off the flow of crude coming out of the ground? How much is really down there? Seriously they are proposing a fix that will take three months to implement. How many gallons will be in the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic ocean by that time?

As for BP paying the bill, yeah right. Just how much do you think a REALISTIC bill for that will wind up being? You can bet that right now they have their attorneys scrambling like crazy to try to hide and shield their assets.
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Unread 05-04-2010, 08:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by als2052 View Post
The dispersants work much dishwashing liquid...they break up oil and settle to bottom which is very detrimental to sealife and plants...Like Shadow says, our only hope is the weather...Lets pray for no TS's or hurrican until this mess is over with...Marine biologist cannot say at this time what is worse, the oil itself or the dispersants proposed...Lets all keep our fingers crossed...what else could possibly happen now?
als-Thanks for handling that
I've been out most of the day and just got back.

He's absolutely correct:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bp-...ill-2010-05-04

Quote:
The technique is intended to efficiently mix the oil and dispersant, breaking up and dispersing accumulations of oil and allowing it to degrade naturally and reduce surface impact," BP added.

In coming days, the oil major plans to lower a 40-foot containment canopy over the leak site and channel the flow of oil to a specialized vessel.

Dispersants, which act like soap breaking up grease, are made by Nalco Holding Co. /quotes/comstock/13*!nlc/quotes/nls/nlc (NLC 25.54, +0.08, +0.31%) , a chemical firm that ranks as one of the many publicly traded companies affected by the oil spill.

"We have provided [to BP] everything in our inventory," Nalco Chief Executive Erik Fyrwald said in an interview Monday. "We are ramping up production."

Separately, the company said the sale of dispersants has not yet had a material financial impact, but Nalco added: "It's impossible to predict at this time how long this incident will last or the magnitude of the response needed."

(*Hint-Now would be good time to invest in Nalco and other suppliers*)

Response crews used a remotely operated underwater vehicle to dispense subsurface dispersant at a rate of 9 gallons per minute -- "with encouraging results so far," according to BP.

Nearly 3,000 gallons of subsea dispersants were applied. Meanwhile, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is evaluating the tests to determine the feasibility of continued use of subsea dispersants.

In total, more than 156,000 gallons of dispersant have been deployed; an additional 230,000 gallons are available.

A Nalco spokesman declined to say how much the dispersants cost.

Environmental lawyer Alfred Kuffler of Montgomery, McCracken, Walker & Rhoads in Philadelphia said the legal implications of using the dispersants are difficult to determine.

(sure-lets let the frealing lawyers in on it!)

Some of the solvents and other chemicals in the dispersants are toxic, but the materials are widely seen as a lesser evil than allowing oil to reach the shore. "BP is a target, or anybody who may have a liability in the case, including the government," Kuffler commented.

A fisherman may be able to attempt to recover damages if dispersants are proven to hurt his catch, but oil companies in the spill may be able to blame the government for using the chemicals, since the U.S. Coast Guard holds a lead position in the operation, he elaborated.

(This will play a HUGE part in coming lawsuits!)

Kuffler said he's not aware of any major lawsuits over exposure to oil-spill dispersants, but cleanup crews at the Exxon Valdez spill in 1989 sued for injuries related to handling crude.
My additions are in red above.

Although no matter what we do at this point, somebody and something is going to get hurt Marinelife, vegitation, coral, all are going to suffer as will fishing and certain forms of recreation.

However, coagulating the oil, dropping it to the bottom to "eventually" bio degrade naturally, will likely be much less financially devastating to less people than having it come ashore in huge amounts. It may also make clean up a bit easier. The environmental impact can be limited (we in damage control now, not prevention), and the impact to land based operations can be controlled.

As to the attorneys', any time they get involved, it's usually for the $$$$ (cHA-cHING) > They tend to have thier own best interest at heart while appearing to "care" for the "victims"(sorry-a bit too jaundiced. Guess I've spent too much time around some real slime balls!)

Anyway, the company can only be held financially liable for a certain amount (I forget now but the #'s out there). It's a fairly low number....UNLESS....they can be shown NEGLIGENT~

At that time, all bets are off.

That's the angle the Feds are working and you can bet your arse that's what the attorney's will be looking at

The fact is, things like this, regarless of the sophisitcation of the rig, are going to happen! It'll happen again.
If we want to depend on fossil fuel sources, then we MUST have better contingency plans in place to deal with them!!!

The fact is, BP waited too long trying to damage control the damned media!

Quicker work and quicker response would have necessarily had a different impact at least short term.

Now, if the weather cooperates, they may be able to get a grip on this mess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
How about a Gulf of Mexico completely engulfed in flames?

Suppose they CAN'T shut off the flow of crude coming out of the ground? How much is really down there? Seriously they are proposing a fix that will take three months to implement. How many gallons will be in the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic ocean by that time?

As for BP paying the bill, yeah right. Just how much do you think a REALISTIC bill for that will wind up being? You can bet that right now they have their attorneys scrambling like crazy to try to hide and shield their assets.
Rich-The fiscal liability will hinge on "negligence." What I can guarantee you the attorney's for BP ( and the contract company) are doing at present, is turning this nightmare every which way they can, looking for a liability loophole....a scape goat if you will.
Frankly, if they weren't, and they were my counsel, I'd fire them on the spot!

As for the time it takes to close it off, it is what it is. NOt much you can do about it

The plan to drill and "block" the flow is probably the quickest and best option if the ROV's can't cut/cap it. Not a lot of choices here.

How many gallons? A hell of a lot!!!

As for setting it afire... give me a lighter and stand back

I'd rather see the oil burned off the water than hit the shore. Again, we're talking damage control, not prevention....we're way past all that chit!
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Unread 05-04-2010, 09:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Response crews used a remotely operated underwater vehicle to dispense subsurface dispersant at a rate of 9 gallons per minute -- "with encouraging results so far," according to BP.

Nearly 3,000 gallons of subsea dispersants were applied. Meanwhile, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is evaluating the tests to determine the feasibility of continued use of subsea dispersants.

In total, more than 156,000 gallons of dispersant have been deployed; an additional 230,000 gallons are available.
Hmm, 5,000 gallons of crude per day coming up out of the hole equals 210,000 gallons PER DAY. That's about 146 gallons per minute being treated with only 9 gallons per minute of dispersant. Which one is going to win that battle?

Oh, and 210,000 gallons per day are coming out, and they only have an additional 230,000 gallons of dispersant available. Again, which one is going to win that battle.

How much dispersant is needed to effectively treat one gallon of crude oil?

I heard that the implementation of a second hole being drilled to block the flow could take three months (with good weather - we are going to be into hurricane season next month) to complete. By that time, there will have been nearly 20 MILLION gallons of crude out of that hole. And there are really no guarantees that even that will work. It could very well be that this whole in the earth below the Gulf of Mexico just might be spewing out crude oil until there just is not more to come out of there. Then everyone is going to be waiting tensely to see if there is another shoe dropped.

I think Connie and I will change our plans of going to the beach this summer and go to the mountains or out west. Now I've got to find out if that travelers insurance we got when we made reservations at Sanibel for the fall covers this sort of thing.

You know, just when we finally retire and can fully appreciate the beaches of Florida, I should have expected something like this would have happened. Now that we are talking about going out west instead, I expect that giant volcanic caldera surrounding Yellowstone will blow........

Damn Murphy...........
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Unread 05-04-2010, 09:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
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As for setting it afire... give me a lighter and stand back

I don't think the lighter will be necessary. We have enough storms over the Gulf where lightning strikes will certainly take care of providing that "spark"...
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