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Unread 06-29-2006, 03:39 PM   #1
Rich Z
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Default Diablo Predator tuning?

Greg and Tom, are you guys familiar with using the handheld Predator for tuning? Yeah, I know it's not nearly as comprehensive as HPtuners or EFIlive, but I'm using this to get my feet wet and maybe step up sometime later on. So I'm looking for some pointers.

Last weekend the wife and I took a drive and Connie was monitoring live data on the box. LTFTs were jumping around quite a bit, but seemed most often to be sitting at +4.67. So when we got back home, I changed the injector slope to -4. Now the average seems to be real close to 0.00 on the LTFTs, maybe dipping down to -2.00 every once in a while. From what I have read, this is supposed to be where I want it.

So what's next? I'm not logging any knock retart counts anywhere, but I haven't really done any WOT runs at all.

Can you give me some pointers?

Thanks.
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Unread 07-03-2006, 03:46 AM   #2
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Not familiar with any of the hand helds.
But sounds like you got the trims in the right place.

What else can you change with the unit?
COT, spark, torque management, etc.
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Unread 07-03-2006, 03:07 PM   #3
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Well, here's a list of the options that I can change the parameters on in the Predator:
  • Spark
  • Power Enrichment
  • Injector Slope
  • COT
  • OBD-II EGR
  • OBD-II AIR
  • OBD-II O2 Sensor
  • CAGS
  • Torque Management
  • Idle RPM
  • Actual Wheel Size
  • Rev Limit
  • Cooling Fans
  • Axle Ratio

What does "COT" stand for?

Since I have a manual transmission, does the Torque Management really do anything? I thought that was strictly for automatic transmissions.

I had a custom tune done by Diablo based on my mods and then afterwards modified the injector slope some to get where I am now. Not getting any knock retard hits, but I did get a random misfire error code about a week or so ago.

Right now I am getting some intermittent error codes (P0112 & P1112) having to do with the intake air temperature, but I don't think they have anything to do with the tune. Any ideas on what could be causing those errors? This is only the second time I have seen them.

So what do you think my next step should be? I have those E3 plugs in, which I have heard will allow the timing to be advanced more then regular plugs, but not sure of the validity of that claim. Car feels pretty strong, but I don't have anything else to compare it against. Well maybe my Jeep Wrangler, but I don't think that counts...

Thanks.
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Unread 07-03-2006, 04:30 PM   #4
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COT is cat over temp. it is an enrichment used to save the cats from melting down during a calculated overtemp condition. Use your own judgement for turning this off. My personal car is turned off. Random cats here, turned off for 2 years now. Your ltft's look good right now. Somewhere between 0 and -4 is optimum. Now it is time to monitor your knock counts, and adjust timing accordingly. Your air temp codes could be coming from a possible contamination condition. I.E. air filter oil getting on the sensor. Try to clean the MAF/air temp sensor with electrical contact cleaner.
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Unread 07-03-2006, 05:51 PM   #5
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So is the procedure to keep advancing timing until you DO start to get retard knock counts? More advance is better up until that point? At what RPM range would I be most likely to see the counts if I have the advance TOO far?

What about the Power Enrichment settings? Are they something I should take a look at as well? I take it from you recommendations that slightly lean is better then slightly rich with the AFR?

Thanks for the tip on the error codes. It may be just what you are saying PLUS maybe the MAF just being dirty. The guy I got this car from apparently didn't know what he was doing and tried the wirewrap air cleaner mod. I believe he left something off, because there were openings BELOW the filter allowing outside air to bypass the filter completely. When I replaced the throttle body with my Shaner S3, the old TB was absolutely filthy. Since I found that kluge that guy did, I have been getting the oil changed every time I take it to the shop for ANYTHING, hoping to clean out any gunk that may have gotten into the engine through the air cleaner.

Oh, and about the torque management thing, is that really only for automatics like I am thinking? Seems kind of odd that I see this displayed on my Predator when I tell it I have a manual transmission.....

Thanks for you help.
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Unread 07-04-2006, 06:42 PM   #6
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Well I hooked up the Predator earlier today and took a look at some things. Even though I specifically select for MANUAL transmission, yes there is an option to change the Torque Management. There was an option for something like "abuse control" so I just turned that OFF. Then I looked at the COT setting. On the predator there isn't a simple on/off switch, there is a sliding scale to select a temperature point. Mine was set at 85* C., which seemed kind of low to me for a catalytic converter. So I upped it to something like 285*C. Does this sound right? Or should I have just upped it all the way to the max setting?

Spark appears to be selectable for three ranges. I didn't jot down notes on the actual ranges, but from what I can recall, I can adjust for idle to about 1500 rpm, 2000 to 4000 rpm WOT, and 4000 to 6000 rpm WOT. I didn't play with those at all, just took a look. Any tips on what to do with those settings?

Power Enrichment looked like it had the same range selections as for Spark, but again, I didn't do anything with them at this time. I'd rather know a little bit more about what I am doing rather then doing "hunt and peck" tuning. I can't see me talking to my wife and saying something like "Hey Sweetie, remember that working engine I used to have in the vette?......."

Thanks.
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Unread 07-05-2006, 10:13 AM   #7
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So Rich, are we having fun yet? Please stay out of the P.E. without a wideband. As far as your timing goes, I am not nuts over tuning large areas in a general way. But since that is all the ability that you have, my suggestion is to add no more than 2 degrees at a time, logging for knock. You will have to use the seat of the pants method to find out how much feels right to you. Go ahead and turn your tq management all the way up. Your cat over temp, well I would guess to turn that all the way up. Seems like that would be same as me turning it off. Since you don't have a wideband, keep checking those plugs. You are starting to approach the danger areas of tuning.
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Unread 07-05-2006, 08:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Venom
So Rich, are we having fun yet? Please stay out of the P.E. without a wideband. As far as your timing goes, I am not nuts over tuning large areas in a general way. But since that is all the ability that you have, my suggestion is to add no more than 2 degrees at a time, logging for knock. You will have to use the seat of the pants method to find out how much feels right to you. Go ahead and turn your tq management all the way up. Your cat over temp, well I would guess to turn that all the way up. Seems like that would be same as me turning it off. Since you don't have a wideband, keep checking those plugs. You are starting to approach the danger areas of tuning.
Well I really wouldn't call this "fun". Especially when you run up a flag warning me about "danger areas"! And no, I haven't been checking the plugs at all. I figured I was being real conservative with what I was doing. So what are the PRE danger area signs I should be looking for?

Today I punched it in second gear to go around a truck before the road narrowed to a single lane and the engine literally SCREAMED! Never heard that before. Definitely threw me back into my seat as well. Passed that truck like it got stuck in a time warp or something. I guess I'm OK with what I have done so far, and don't need to do an "oops, I guess I went a little too far..." event.

Wish you guys were closer so I could get you to do a real tune for me.

Oh, btw, interesting to note, but since I adjusted the COT and the torque management stuff, I no longer have a surging problem that I used to have while the A/C was running. At least I think it is gone, as I didn't have it at all today when I went for a ride. It was VERY noticeable at low speed when driving down my road at just 10 mph (yeah, I live on an unpaved road), but didn't have it at all today.
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Unread 07-07-2006, 02:18 PM   #9
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The only danger signs that you have will be datalogging knock counts, and plug reading. Plug reading is not as easy as it was with leaded fuels. Often plug reading can be "too late" I.E. aluminum speckles on the porcelean. But you would have seen that as knock anyway. BTW, please be careful while datalogging and driving. Keep your eyes on the road, the life that you save could be mine
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Unread 07-07-2006, 07:15 PM   #10
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Yeah, I have had my wife manning the Predator while I drive.

As for the knock counts, at which RPM would they be most likely to show up, or is it an across the board kind of thing. We did note one fleeting instance of a couple of counts at near idle speed once, but haven't noted it as being a recurring issue.

And if the counts are noted, what is the preferred resolution? Retard the timing in that band a slight bit? Or richen up the fuel a bit?

Thanks.
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