You see the problem is this: - Page 3

Remo · 02-16-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Personally, I believe that the authority that comes with voting needs to have the responsibility for the choices you make attached to it. If you are not willing to stand behind your vote, and damn the torpedoes, well, is that what America has really become? People AFRAID to admit who they voted for?

The privacy of the voting booth is not concept we' ve migrated to. It's been with us from the beginning of country.

I believe that the shirking of this responsibility that should be inherent in the voting process is exactly what has gutted it into the farce that it is today. WE allowed our votes to become meaningless because there is no way for us to audit it after the fact. How do you run a recount with a purely electronic system? Just press a "recount" button that will ALWAYS give you the same answer? Yeah, that would be helpful. No there needs to be a verifiable physical document of some manner that can be used to VERIFY that the votes made are legitimate and accurate. Otherwise the winner of any such unverifiable elections can be whoever it is that controls the voting process WISHES to win.

As for the rest of your concerns...may I suggest that you volunteer to work with the Florida Election Authority. I'm sure they'll welcome your ideas.

Kap142 · 02-16-2012, 03:03 PM

I'm sure that if we could get a TRUTHFUL accounting of that, we wouldn't like what we would see. Which is exactly why I think we would NEVER be able to actually get a truthful accounting of where our money really goes.

I am so sure you are correct.

**Rich Z** · 02-16-2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remo

The privacy of the voting booth is not concept we' ve migrated to. It's been with us from the beginning of country.

Uh, no, actually that is not true...

Quote:

In the United States, most states had moved to secret ballots soon after the presidential election of 1884. However, Kentucky was the last state to do so in 1891, when it quit using an oral ballot. Therefore, the first President of the United States elected completely under the Australian ballot was president Grover Cleveland in 1892.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remo

As for the rest of your concerns...may I suggest that you volunteer to work with the Florida Election Authority. I'm sure they'll welcome your ideas.

I'm sure my opinions would endear myself to them....

Remo · 02-17-2012, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Uh, no, actually that is not true...

Rich...thank you for your concise response. Perhaps you could give us a summary of the voting processes used throughout the history of our country. And if wouldn't be too much trouble, could you give us an outline of what you see as the best alternative to the privacy of the voting booth.

**Rich Z** · 02-17-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remo

Rich...thank you for your concise response. Perhaps you could give us a summary of the voting processes used throughout the history of our country. And if wouldn't be too much trouble, could you give us an outline of what you see as the best alternative to the privacy of the voting booth.

Sorry, but that is what Google is for. That's where my quote came from about the secret ballot not being implemented in this country until 1884. NOT from the beginning (which was around 1776 or so, wasn't it?)

Sorry, but it is too much trouble to spend the time coming up with a system. But the crux of the matter is that any citizen should have the ability to verify that their vote was counted and who it was counted towards.

als2052 · 02-17-2012, 12:55 PM

I WANT SOME FREE STUFF!

Remo · 02-17-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Sorry, but that is what Google is for. That's where my quote came from about the secret ballot not being implemented in this country until 1884. NOT from the beginning (which was around 1776 or so, wasn't it?)

Actually between 1776 and 1884 there was a wide variety of systems used. Even the one you like the most.....the verbal ballot. But up here in Massachhsetts the secret ballot was being used as early as 1850.

Sorry, but it is too much trouble to spend the time coming up with a system. But the crux of the matter is that any citizen should have the ability to verify that their vote was counted and who it was counted towards.

No problem

**Rich Z** · 02-17-2012, 04:27 PM

What leads you to presume that I prefer a verbal ballot? I never said such a thing. A verbal ballot would be inherrently unable to be audited for accuracy after the fact by anyone.

Remo · 02-18-2012, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Z

What leads you to presume that I prefer a verbal ballot? I never said such a thing. A verbal ballot would be inherrently unable to be audited for accuracy after the fact by anyone.

With your distrust of the system I thought the idea of a verbal vote would appeal to you. You could hang out at the voting place and take notes on who voted for what. Imagine.....no one screwing with lost ballots, no hacking into electronic systems and no hanging chads. And best of all you'ld know the vote was counted.

**Rich Z** · 02-18-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remo

With your distrust of the system I thought the idea of a verbal vote would appeal to you. You could hang out at the voting place and take notes on who voted for what. Imagine.....no one screwing with lost ballots, no hacking into electronic systems and no hanging chads. And best of all you'ld know the vote was counted.

Sorry, but apparently you completely missed the point of my statements.