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General BS forum I guess this will be for anything that would seem to be off topic in any other forum here. Just general shootin' the breeze kind of topics.

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Unread 08-08-2010, 10:02 PM   #21
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I just don't want to BE hard evidence! Agent Orange comes to mind....
Exactly .Came down with diabetes two years ago and it was traced back to agent orange.40 years after exposure 100 % of our platoon has either cancer diabetes or is dead.And we we're all assured that AO was safe.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 06:57 AM   #22
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Found on a local news website this morning:


Turtle's Death May Be Linked To Oil Spill
Specialist from the Gulf Specimen Marine Lab in Panacea was called out to Alligator Point this weekend to help a turtle in distress and lab workers say what they found is something they've never seen before.
"We've been doing turtle rehab for a good 20 years and this is the first time any one of us has seen anything like this before," said Gulf Specimen Marine Lab Worker, Julia Knight.

Knight works at the Gulf Specimen Marine Lab in Panacea and she says they were in shock on Saturday when they laid eyes on a Kemp's Ridley turtle found along the shores of Alligator Point, barely hanging on. A turtle they later named BP after the oil disaster.

"The more we looked at it the more we thought this has to be connected with that," said Knight.

The turtle is now on ice awaiting tests. But workers think the oil spill and the disbursements in the water may be linked to the turtle's death.

"This is the kind of stuff they don't want you to think about. That it's all gone and that oil has evaporated out and just disappeared. But this is hard evidence right here," said Gulf Specimen Marine Lab manager, Cypress Rudloe.

Marine lab workers say the turtle's shell was damaged and covered in an oily substance.

"Right down in here it was just eating it away," said Knight.

Marine workers couldn't save this turtle but they say plan on getting to the bottom of what happened.

"There were samples taken of what was on the turtle's back and until that all comes back from a lab we really can't say for sure what any of it is but whatever it is it's not a good thing," said Knight.

Workers at the lab say it may be weeks before they find out if the turtle's death is linked to the oil spill.

They're still awaiting test results and a necropsy is scheduled.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 07:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post


Personally, I think it downright silly that people don't use their own gray matter and THINK about what is going on. IF there was, in fact, a major oil gusher in the Gulf of Mexico, and if a very small percentage of it was scraped from the surface or washed ashore, then WHERE is all of the rest of the oil? IF dispersants were used and IF they did the job, then they emulsified the oil and mixed it with the water within the Gulf of Mexico.

If all of the above is true, then anything living within the emulsified mixture quite likely is contaminated not only with the oil, but also with the chemicals that compose the dispersant. Since I am responsible for my own health and welfare and do not care to rely on the illogical statements made from entities not unduly noted for their honesty nor inclined to make statements contrary to the health and well being of their own financial position, I believe it behooves me to make a rationally sound decision concerning becoming part of a chain of events whereby those contaminants might percolate up the food chain into ME.

Quite frankly, it certainly won't KILL me to eat chicken for a while, awaiting results of those guinea pigs who choose this path for themselves.
What I find downright silly, is all the "end is near" rhetoric I've been hearing since this thing started, from professionals and lay people alike.

We've heard everything from a resulting totally dead sea, to the end of seafood as we know it, to the start of a major earth clamity that will likely spark the destruction of the planet

Jesus Christ!
No wonder the tourism and restaurant business is down in some parts of the state

I have no problem with a logically based decision.
So let's look at this for a moment.

Since dispersant is also spread via aircraft, and I'm sure some is carried away by the wind, and rain cycles, not all of it necessarily went into or remained in the contaminated area.

As well, our GUlf feeds in and out of the mouth of many of the rivers of our state, going from salt to brackish to fresh water via tidal exchanges).

This 'contaminated" water will then find it's way into the aquifer, and on to the homes, farms and gardens of our state.

As well, seabirds will eat some of the now contaminated fish, dive into the now contaminated waters, and walk along the now contaminated shoreline and seagrass.
They then migrate to who "uncontaminated areas", die on the land, get eaten by other animals or birds, and/or crap on the grass and grain that "may" ultimately be used to feed the chickens, and BINGO!! Contaminated chicken! (and beef, and vegitables, and fruit and.....
We are all so fawked! We can't even be safe vegitarians!

And lets not forget the fish that will also migrate to various ares of the Gulf not yet contaminated, spawn, be caught, etc., and thier meat, or that of thier offspring, and thier offspring, ad nauseum, will again contaminate the food chain.

Finally, the tourist and workers that handled the contaminated oil/dispersants.

Any likelyhood that they could spread the contamination?
Not likely, but God knows, we don't want to rule that out either, right?

Now, I'm not saying to believe the government or BP (I've already made my opinion clear on those two groups previously). My suggestion is form a valid conclusion based upon research and understanding, not fear.

My point being, using one's "gray matter" is a great idea; however, if one is controlled by fear, paranoia, and overthinking a problem, then one becomes part of the problem rather than the solution.

Stockpiling seafood was probably a good idea (wish I'd though of it, but I'm not that concerned.

See, again, I generally couldn't tell you the difference in taste, between a gulf shrimp caught in the Mississippi Gulf region from that caught elsewhere in the Gulf. For that matter, just about anywhere else they're caught.

I ieat them, not study them

Same with most fish (there are a few). Some people can tell the difference between a trout caught locally and one caught elsewhere. A salmon from Alaska vs. some stream in the hills?

Me, it's fish, and it all tastes like.....nah, I'm not going there...oh hell, why not? ....CHICKEN! (what did you think I was going to say? You buncha perverts!!~
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Unread 08-09-2010, 07:37 AM   #24
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Exactly .Came down with diabetes two years ago and it was traced back to agent orange.40 years after exposure 100 % of our platoon has either cancer diabetes or is dead.And we we're all assured that AO was safe.
I agree that we don't need to believe the gov't or BP execs/front men, etc.
Agent Orange was proven decades ago and the results released. It only took them how many decades to release it?

Is this stuff toxic?
Most likely.
Is it resilient entough to remain in the water/sealife for years?
Who knows?

That's why independent groups like this exist:

The Gulf Specimen Marine Lab in Panacea
Mote Marine
Clearwater Marine Institute and a host of others.

But this is what I'm talking about:
Quote:
"There were samples taken of what was on the turtle's back and until that all comes back from a lab we really can't say for sure what any of it is
Despite my laid back approach, I do have my concerns.
But there are other areas of the Gulf that are not contaminated. There are other parts of the country to obtain seafood.

I'm not saying ignore the threat, but I dont' want to over sensationalize it either.

FWIW-I haven't swam in the Gulf of Mexico for decades other than as necessary for a swim test and such.
I've considered it "polluted" for years.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 11:02 AM   #25
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Right now no one know the detrimental effect of the dispersants use so far....And it is alot more stronger than Dawn liquid...
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Unread 08-09-2010, 12:17 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
What I find downright silly, is all the "end is near" rhetoric I've been hearing since this thing started, from professionals and lay people alike.

We've heard everything from a resulting totally dead sea, to the end of seafood as we know it, to the start of a major earth clamity that will likely spark the destruction of the planet

Jesus Christ!
No wonder the tourism and restaurant business is down in some parts of the state

I have no problem with a logically based decision.
So let's look at this for a moment.

Since dispersant is also spread via aircraft, and I'm sure some is carried away by the wind, and rain cycles, not all of it necessarily went into or remained in the contaminated area.

As well, our GUlf feeds in and out of the mouth of many of the rivers of our state, going from salt to brackish to fresh water via tidal exchanges).

This 'contaminated" water will then find it's way into the aquifer, and on to the homes, farms and gardens of our state.

As well, seabirds will eat some of the now contaminated fish, dive into the now contaminated waters, and walk along the now contaminated shoreline and seagrass.
They then migrate to who "uncontaminated areas", die on the land, get eaten by other animals or birds, and/or crap on the grass and grain that "may" ultimately be used to feed the chickens, and BINGO!! Contaminated chicken! (and beef, and vegitables, and fruit and.....
We are all so fawked! We can't even be safe vegitarians!

And lets not forget the fish that will also migrate to various ares of the Gulf not yet contaminated, spawn, be caught, etc., and thier meat, or that of thier offspring, and thier offspring, ad nauseum, will again contaminate the food chain.

Finally, the tourist and workers that handled the contaminated oil/dispersants.

Any likelyhood that they could spread the contamination?
Not likely, but God knows, we don't want to rule that out either, right?

Now, I'm not saying to believe the government or BP (I've already made my opinion clear on those two groups previously). My suggestion is form a valid conclusion based upon research and understanding, not fear.

My point being, using one's "gray matter" is a great idea; however, if one is controlled by fear, paranoia, and overthinking a problem, then one becomes part of the problem rather than the solution.

Stockpiling seafood was probably a good idea (wish I'd though of it, but I'm not that concerned.

See, again, I generally couldn't tell you the difference in taste, between a gulf shrimp caught in the Mississippi Gulf region from that caught elsewhere in the Gulf. For that matter, just about anywhere else they're caught.

I ieat them, not study them

Same with most fish (there are a few). Some people can tell the difference between a trout caught locally and one caught elsewhere. A salmon from Alaska vs. some stream in the hills?

Me, it's fish, and it all tastes like.....nah, I'm not going there...oh hell, why not? ....CHICKEN! (what did you think I was going to say? You buncha perverts!!~
Yes, I would think people would use their brain when faced with this situation and taking as much data as is available into consideration to make rational and studied decisions about not only their own health and welfare, but those people around them that may not have expended as much effort to try to see what MAY really be going on.

You mentioned above,
Quote:
My suggestion is form a valid conclusion based upon research and understanding, not fear.
That's all well and good, but what research and understanding have you personally relied on to make statements like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Haven't changed my seafood eating habits and I'm not plannin on it.

If I see hard evidence of contamination, then I'll change. Until then, no way

As far as where the shrimp and such come from, it simply doesn't make that much difference to me as a consumer.

I feel bad for the commercial fishermen and restaurants along the Gulf though.

The paranoia over tainted seafood has had an effect on thier business. You'd really think people would be more intelligent and less tin hat typical
Research and understanding may actually be hard to come by when it is apparent that both BP and the government MAY have the incentive as well as the power to make research and understanding a stacked deck in the mainstream media.

http://www.businessinsider.com/bp-is...reement-2010-7

Let's see you are scientist and BP comes to you with an offer like this. Hmm, $205 per hour times 8 hours per week times 52 weeks equals $85,280 for a year of basically just turning a blind eye to this issue. How many scientists, especially in today's economy, are going to let scruples get in the way? How many scientists can BP afford to pay off in a program like this? What else may be going on that we just haven't heard about because the people who know CAN'T or WON'T say a thing about it?

Yeah, research and understanding can sometimes be hard to come by, but with some time and effort, they can be achieved via reading between the lines from the information that IS available.

Am I wrong for taking the stance that I am? Maybe. Can you be wrong? Maybe. But given that my or your health and welfare might be hanging in the balance of making a decision on what to eat, I think I have far less to lose than you do if I am wrong. I just miss out on some fresh Gulf seafood for a while. How's things looking from your perspective if YOU are wrong? What are you going to possibly be missing out on in the future?
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Unread 08-10-2010, 04:18 AM   #27
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Oh, and just to help you feel better about the testing methods being used for Gulf seafood, here's this -> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100802/...pill_fishermen

If it don't smell bad, it MUST be good....
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Unread 08-10-2010, 07:08 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by als2052 View Post
Right now no one know the detrimental effect of the dispersants use so far....And it is alot more stronger than Dawn liquid...
Without knowing exactly which dispersants they used, the quantities, etc., it's going to be difficult to determine the effects short term. Unfortunately, as with most things we do, it's going to be a wait and see approach

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Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
...Research and understanding may actually be hard to come by when it is apparent that both BP and the government MAY have the incentive as well as the power to make research and understanding a stacked deck in the mainstream media.
Certainly they "MAY."
As a matter of FACT, they DO have BOTH the POWER and the INCENTIVE to do just that!

Quote:
...http://www.businessinsider.com/bp-is...reement-2010-7

Let's see you are scientist and BP comes to you with an offer like this. Hmm, $205 per hour times 8 hours per week times 52 weeks equals $85,280 for a year of basically just turning a blind eye to this issue. How many scientists, especially in today's economy, are going to let scruples get in the way? How many scientists can BP afford to pay off in a program like this? What else may be going on that we just haven't heard about because the people who know CAN'T or WON'T say a thing about it?
I didn't read the link (it's 6:30 am and I'm getting ready to head out again!) but I assume from your desccription, that you summarized it?
Again, more mass hysteria builing hype.
Just like the "BP/government controlled" media and such stories

I'm NOT denying that "spin" exists. We all know that it does.
But why add to the problem?

Are there going to be scientists and researchers that can/will be "bought?"
Sure there are.

Just like there are cops, and business people, government officials, you name it.
But there's always going to be the other side.
Those with morals, ethics, dedication, that will negate the "bad apples."

Besides Rich, think about this.

If all the "paid for" scientists are saying one thing, and you come along and prove something quite the opposite, don't you think you'd have your own shot at the big $$$$???

Hell, look at Erin Brockovich! And she wasn't even a scientist!

So all is not lost simply because BP can buy some scientists.

Quote:
Yeah, research and understanding can sometimes be hard to come by, but with some time and effort, they can be achieved via reading between the lines from the information that IS available.
Yep
Have to chose your sources carefully though.

Quote:
Am I wrong for taking the stance that I am? Maybe. Can you be wrong? Maybe. But given that my or your health and welfare might be hanging in the balance of making a decision on what to eat, I think I have far less to lose than you do if I am wrong. I just miss out on some fresh Gulf seafood for a while. How's things looking from your perspective if YOU are wrong? What are you going to possibly be missing out on in the future?
Could be either.
FWIW- I don't eat that much "fresh Gulf Seafood."

And I'm NOT saying thay you are incorrect for taking the precautions you've chosen. Not at all.
As I stated, I'm not all that worried about my seafood being "fresh Gulf" seafood.

Crab, Shrimp, Lobster...and various white fish, are the mainstays of my seafood consumption/diet.

Maine, Boston, Alaska, the Atlantic and still, apparently, most of the Gulf is uncontaminated (reltively speaking) and available for picking.

The rest of my family aren't huge seafood eaters. The wiufe enjoys it occasionally, but our diests are similar in the type of seafood we consume (we're dieting together).

As far as hitting the seafood joints along the coast, I'll still go

The amount of seafood that I'll consume at these places, I feel confident will not have an ill effect on my health. And I'm sure the alcohol will negate any ill leffects

Seriously though, most of the seafood we consume is frozen and caught elsewhere. So it's not a huge concern for "me."

And just FYI-Tankers discharge thier bilges in open water regularly. Cruise ships as well.
Do you really know what's being dumped?
Every now and then, we'll get a report, and invest will occur and some cruise line or transport company, will be nailed with a "fine" (wow) for illegal dumping of oily waste of other substances.

I could worry about this and it's effect on the sealife and environment that it lives and thrives in, but I don't.
How about it's effect on the seafood we eat?
I realize it's on a much smaller scale, but it still exists.

So of course you have a right to be concerned. We all do.

As for it's long term effects on our health, right now, it's anybody's guess.

Your precautions are valid and well thought out.

After Agent Orange, and some of the crap our government pulled during the 1st Gulf War, I generally don't believe anything that comes from them regarding our health!

So the bottom line is, am I concerned? Of course I am.

And what will be the effect on my health and those around me in 20-30 years?
Beats me?
If the seafood doesn't get me, I'm sure there will be some other natural, governmental or commercially created calamity that will.

But I'm NOT going to let it rule my life!

In reality, sure I'm cautious about where certain foods come from as should anyone.

What I'm NOT going to do, is add to the already out of control media hype that the sky is falling and we're all doomed!

I prefer to stay positive, look toward a (hopefully) brighter future, and be selectively cautious regarding the food I eat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
Oh, and just to help you feel better about the testing methods being used for Gulf seafood, here's this -> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100802/...pill_fishermen

If it don't smell bad, it MUST be good....
Interesting read Rich
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Unread 08-10-2010, 10:52 AM   #29
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Honestly, I'm afraid to eat any seafood from the Gulf right now. Have any of you guys changed your eating habits because of this? If so, I think BP owes us for depriving us of having the liberty to enjoy one of Florida's natural resources.

Not only would I not eat from the gulf but just tyell me how while diving I can clean my face mask of the 10W30 that will be ther for thousands of years
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Unread 08-10-2010, 10:56 AM   #30
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Personally, I think it downright silly that people don't use their own gray matter and THINK about what is going on. IF there was, in fact, a major oil gusher in the Gulf of Mexico, and if a very small percentage of it was scraped from the surface or washed ashore, then WHERE is all of the rest of the oil? IF dispersants were used and IF they did the job, then they emulsified the oil and mixed it with the water within the Gulf of Mexico.

If all of the above is true, then anything living within the emulsified mixture quite likely is contaminated not only with the oil, but also with the chemicals that compose the dispersant. Since I am responsible for my own health and welfare and do not care to rely on the illogical statements made from entities not unduly noted for their honesty nor inclined to make statements contrary to the health and well being of their own financial position, I believe it behooves me to make a rationally sound decision concerning becoming part of a chain of events whereby those contaminants might percolate up the food chain into ME.

Quite frankly, it certainly won't KILL me to eat chicken for a while, awaiting results of those guinea pigs who choose this path for themselves.
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