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Firearms and Other Weapons Had a request for this forum, so here it is. Guess it will give me some place to talk about guns myself after selling my ArmsLocker forum.

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Unread 01-15-2011, 10:45 PM   #1
Bob K
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Default Obama Pushing For Emergency Gun Control

"The Obama administration's plan to force new reporting requirements on thousands of gun dealers near the Mexico border is under fire from members of his own party."

"The proposal isn't connected in any way to the mass shooting in Arizona last weekend that left six people dead and 14 others wounded, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., because the suspect used a handgun, which is already covered under these reporting requirements."
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Unread 01-16-2011, 12:12 AM   #2
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I just bought 1100 rounds of 7.62x39 for my folding stock AK47....just in case...for @200 bucks...from AIMSurplus.com.

The the tree hugging, earth munching druids who belong to the Flat Earth Society, along with the weapon NAZIs', WILL NOT control my right to bear arms...nor use them!
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Unread 01-16-2011, 11:39 AM   #3
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Deep down inside I don't believe for a minute that the Mexican Cartel is buying their guns from Gun Dealers.
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Unread 01-16-2011, 11:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasajack View Post
I just bought 1100 rounds of 7.62x39 for my folding stock AK47....just in case...for @200 bucks...from AIMSurplus.com.

The the tree hugging, earth munching druids who belong to the Flat Earth Society, along with the weapon NAZIs', WILL NOT control my right to bear arms...nor use them!
I don't think that'll be enough if these idiots start trying to confiscate weapons.

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Originally Posted by Mannings View Post
Deep down inside I don't believe for a minute that the Mexican Cartel is buying their guns from Gun Dealers.
What was the first clue?
I know what you mean my friend.

Our government couldn't BUY a CLUE when it comes to controlling crime

Just what we need. More useless laws, and more paperwork to bog down the system, while the bad guys go about doing what they've always done

God help us!
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Unread 01-16-2011, 12:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob K View Post
"The Obama administration's plan to force new reporting requirements on thousands of gun dealers near the Mexico border is under fire from members of his own party."
Way to go moron!
Alienate your own party

Quote:
"The proposal isn't connected in any way to the mass shooting in Arizona last weekend that left six people dead and 14 others wounded, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., because the suspect used a handgun, which is already covered under these reporting requirements."
Sure it's not. But the timing is impeccable!

Quote:
The new regulation would cover semiautomatic rifles greater than .22 caliber with detachable magazines.
ok, let's try one of these....no magazine
Not covered?


http://www.45caliberjustice.com/2005...ult-rifle.html

or pretty much any of these...again since there is no "magazine":

http://www.50bmgstore.com/m2hb50bmg.htm

And finally, for your viewing pleasure:

It's not "over .22 cal":
http://vindicatorbf1.com/


And again, since there is no "magazine" to be detached.....thier rules you know
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Unread 01-16-2011, 12:53 PM   #6
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I find the following quotes interesting for a variety of reasons:

Quote:
Sen. Mark Begich, D-Alaska, has asked the ATF to withdraw its request to the White House for emergency authority to enact the regulation.
Quote:
"While I understand the importance of cracking down on violence and gun trafficking along the U.S.-Mexico border, this wide-reaching regulation would punish law-abiding American gun owners and impede their Second Amendment rights," Begich wrote in a letter last week to ATF Acting Director Kenneth Melson. "Instead, we must secure our border and target Mexican drug cartels, as well as participating offenders in the United States."
Quote:
The proposal also faces opposition from Montana's two Democratic senators, Max Baucus and Jon Tester, as well as 36 House members in both parties
Quote:
They want the administration to enforce the agency's existing power to ensure gun dealers are in compliance with the law.
First let me say that I despise partisan politics!!
They do nothing to further the progress of society, safegauard the rights of the American people, or make America a stronger, more financially sound country.

What they do in fact, is support special interest, fill local and state coffers, and slow down progress.

I'm always reading the hoopla about the "Dems" and how they're out to destroy the world, yet it's those same evil Dems, that are fighting for YOUR rights!
I just found that point to be rather interesting.

Quote:
Obama struggles to get Senate confirmation for his choice to run the ATF, Andrew Traver. The agency has not had a director for more than four years...

"Traver has been deeply aligned with gun control advocates and anti-gun activities," the NRA said in a statement last week. "This makes him the wrong choice to lead an enforcement agency that has almost exclusive oversight and control over the firearms industry, its retailers and consumers."
I'd be paying close attention to this folks.
Nothing like stacking the deck and now's the time when emotions are high.

Quote:
The ATF announced the new proposed regulation last month. The agency was expecting approval from the Office of Management and Budget last week but the White House is still reviewing the request.

"Review of this ATF information is proceeding expeditiously," an OMB spokeswoman said in an e-mail to FoxNews.com.
The fact that that were "expecting approval" and that it's "proceeding expeditiously" worries me.
I'd never want to ramrod a proposal such as this without oversight and review. Especially whenn it's proposed by the agency that's going to enforce it
BTW-when the the BATF become start making regs vs. enforcing them?

Quote:
The ATF has rejected the notion that its regulation will violate Second Amendment rights or impose burdensome paperwork on gun dealers.
Of course it did. What do you expect?
Will it violate 2nd ammendment rights?
Most likely not.
Will it increase paperwork and potentially expose retailers to more BATF's potentially rediculous review...

You betcha!

Quote:
"These reports will give ATF real-time leads for the investigation of gun trafficking," Melson said in a webcast last month announcing the proposal...

"ATF's experience in these source states proves that multiple purchases of the described rifles are strong indicators of firearms trafficking to Mexico," he said. "By obtaining information about these multiple sales, ATF increase the likelihood of uncovering and disrupting trafficking schemes before the firearms make their way into Mexico."
So, are rifle sales not reported to the ATF?
If not, then how would they have determined the following:

Quote:
ATF tracks the weapons found in Mexico and has linked tens of thousands of recovered guns to U.S. dealers...
...Scott Thomasson, the chief spokesman for ATF, told FoxNews.com that the agency is pushing for this new regulation now because since 2004, there's been a 100 percent increase by Mexican drug cartels using rifles, which are not covered by any reporting requirements.
Seems to me, there's already a tracking system in place?

Quote:
"This move by the ATF to capture this information is a direct result in the cartel shift in weapon of choice and in our attempt to stem the flow of violence," he said.
Jeasus Christ!
They've been using these weapons for years
Where the hell has the BATF's head been?
(never mind)

Quote:
"We seem to be losing sight of the fact that this simple requirement, and it is a simple requirement, is one of the greatest tools we have as investigators in stopping and stemming violence before it happens and identifying those who put guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them," he said.
"It makes sense that law enforcement should be alerted if someone is buying five, 10 or 100 assault weapons, when it's likely that those guns could be headed to drug cartels in Mexico," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign.
First, there's nothing "simple" about the ATF!
That's as rediculous as saying that the IRS is just trying to help.

And while I really do not disagree that "mass sales" should be reported, I'm concerned that the numbers they're suggesting are simply too low to be construed as "mass sales" to me.
You start out with a few, next thign you know, it's everything!

Quote:
The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence strongly supports the proposal.
Now that's a shocker!

Quote:
"It will give ATF the same amount of information about people who buy military-style assault weapons in bulk that they already have had for more than 40 years about people who buy handguns in bulk," he said in a statement. "It's the kind of crime-fighting information that our law enforcement officials ought to have if we want to reduce the number of assault weapons being trafficked illegally to Mexico, as well as to American cities."
Again, define "bulk" properly.

Quote:
The NRA, which says it is keeping a close eye on the ATF, has vowed to make every effort possible to block the proposal.

"ATF doesn't have the authority to unilaterally impose this new requirement," the group said on its website. "If the Obama administration is going to run roughshod over the statutory limitations of the ATF in this regard, what other restrictions on their authority will they attempt to undermine or ignore?"
I've never beena lockstepper with any agency or organization. I'm a life member of the NRA only because it was cheaper and easier than having to renew yearly, and I needed it to retain my certification as an instructor.
No other reason!
That said, the BATF has never been known as a gun/citizens rights organization.

It may be time to pay more attention to some of the tactics employed and suggested by our government officials.
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Unread 01-16-2011, 01:30 PM   #7
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"Bulk" means more than one...

Quote:
If you sell or dispose of more than one handgun to any non-licensee during a period of 5 consecutive business days, the sale must be reported on ATF Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers, not later than the close of the business day on which you sold or disposed of the second handgun. The licensee must forward a copy of the Form 3310.4 to the ATF office specified thereon, and another copy must be forwarded to the State police or local law enforcement agency where the sale occurred. A copy of the Form 3310.4 also must be attached to the firearms transaction record, ATF Form 4473, documenting the sale or disposition of the second handgun.
Heck, I dunno, since illegal aliens can go on welfare, get USA drivers licenses, get medical aid and government assistance, can they just walk into a gunshop and buy guns as well? That certainly wouldn't surprise me in the least.
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Unread 01-16-2011, 02:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
"Bulk" means more than one...



Heck, I dunno, since illegal aliens can go on welfare, get USA drivers licenses, get medical aid and government assistance, can they just walk into a gunshop and buy guns as well? That certainly wouldn't surprise me in the least.
I know what you mean Rich.
(thanks for the excerpt btw-didn't have time to look for it)

And that's my point.
The "ATF" defines "bulk" as 2 or more.
That's simply rrediculous!

Needs to be a more realistic number!

Most people commonly refer to bulk when they're talking about large quantities.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bulk—Idiom
16. in bulk,
a. unpackaged: Fresh orange juice is shipped from Florida in bulk.
b. in large quantities: Those who buy in bulk receive a discount.

If you came to me and say I want to buy your product in "bulk", what's the best deal you can give me?
I'll give you a deal.

You buy two (2) in 5 business days...the deals void!
That's not "Bulk."

With all that said, I still wonder, if nothing is reported, how the BATF determined that those weapons were from "U.S. dealers."???
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Unread 01-16-2011, 04:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
With all that said, I still wonder, if nothing is reported, how the BATF determined that those weapons were from "U.S. dealers."???
Although FFLs don't have to issue reports, their records are always available to BATF for inspection to check from compliance. So they can go on a "fishing expedition" any time they want by simply taking notes of the entries in the FFL's log book.

Actually, it's even easier than that since in most states a buyer has to pass a NICS call-in to get permission from the government to take possession of a firearm from a FFL holder. They are supposed to destroy such records, but I hope no one really believes that whopper.

I guess it's just me, but I just can't see how asking for permission from the government to buy a gun doesn't trample the Second Amendment deep into the ground. The govenment can basically shut down sales of firearms by simply not answering the NICS phones. So how is that NOT an infringement of our rights?
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Unread 01-16-2011, 04:38 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
Although FFLs don't have to issue reports, their records are always available to BATF for inspection to check from compliance. So they can go on a "fishing expedition" any time they want by simply taking notes of the entries in the FFL's log book.
Exactly.
Now we're back to basic police/detective work.

Quote:
Actually, it's even easier than that since in most states a buyer has to pass a NICS call-in to get permission from the government to take possession of a firearm from a FFL holder. They are supposed to destroy such records, but I hope no one really believes that whopper.
I never assume that any records are destroyed.

Quote:
I guess it's just me, but I just can't see how asking for permission from the government to buy a gun doesn't trample the Second Amendment deep into the ground. The govenment can basically shut down sales of firearms by simply not answering the NICS phones. So how is that NOT an infringement of our rights?
You may have a point.....
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