Judging Classifications

als2052 · 03-12-2008, 04:11 PM

Since a bad taste has been left on so many from last weeks show, I thought I would start this thread in hopes that we can come up with a fair and reasonable classifications that could be presented to all the clubs that judge shows as well as premium car show. The Classifications are as follows:

1. Cars less than 2 years.
2. Trailer Queens
3. All classes in 2 year intervals
4. Street Driven (What exterior surfaces are visible and whats visible inside with open door - no opening of compartments)
5. Original - 0 mods - All exterior & interior surfaces incl compartments
6. Semi-Custom - 0-4 mods - All exterior & interior surfaces incl compartments
7. Custom - over 5 mods - Everything/Everywhere
8. Concours - Every nook and cranny....

Add you .02 by all means...

THOR · 03-12-2008, 05:03 PM

Sounds fair to me!!! Good idea.

vett boy · 03-12-2008, 06:56 PM

Been doing judged shows since 1921 and it's tough to get good judges and classes.Your ideas seem to be valid

howard goldberg · 03-12-2008, 07:12 PM

you must have outside judges not judges from a local club as last week show was judges from corvette clubs by ecklers if they know you and your car is clean you win. i heard a few judges talk to people and say you won before they judges their car. you only go to have a good time not to win

spiceman · 03-12-2008, 08:32 PM

I also agree that the judging should be from outside source.....IF at all possible.
I also think the show at Celebration was a good location in that it was a semi netrual location so to speak. Not half way from coast to coast, but the distance better than driving from one to the other coast. Mickey land however on I-4 is the pit's as far as traffic is concerned but especially on Friday evening's.
There are a few Car show's here in Heathrow at the new Colonial Town center.
Plenty of Hotel's, places to eat, movie theater's and such. Seem's to be quite popular...........just food for thought.
I believe by what I've read from quite a few member's herein, there are quite a few of us old timer's at this sport of car show's and judging............myself, been there done it forever so it seem's. What I read here this week concerning the Celebration show only reminds me of 30+ years ago. Same ole same ole.Nothing's changed..same argument's.
Go racing...........then you'll know who's really 1st, 2nd, and 3rd...LOL.

**Rich Z** · 03-13-2008, 02:26 AM

Personally, I could do without the judging at shows completely. Too many feelings getting hurt, it seems. Is it really all that important to win a trophy?

Quite frankly, MY car is the best in my category. That's why I bought it and why I put the mods I did on it. If I wanted something different, it would BE something different. The car that wins "best of show" doesn't necessarily mean it is how I would want MY car to be at all.

I just enjoy looking at how other people have personalized their cars to match what THEY want it to be. That should be what is important. That the car is how YOU want it to be, not what you think it takes in order to win some trophy.

In my humble opinion, of course....

vette8t7 · 03-14-2008, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard goldberg

you must have outside judges not judges from a local club as last week show was judges from corvette clubs by ecklers if they know you and your car is clean you win.

Wow..then I guess everyone can stop entering b/c for as long as I have known (if not always the local clubs provide teh judges for the Reunions. Now if the judges are discouraged discouraged from entering their vettes if they are judging, but in all likeliness they could as they won't be judging their own class.
If they know you and your car is clean you win? I'll call partial BS as I will state that the Titusville Corvette Club supplied most of the judges for the show. I had two cancels earlier in the week before the show

ne had a conflict and the other had pneumonia. So I rounded up 5 more judges. I can say that the TCC judges and the other 5 I rounded are all experienced and fair judges. Most of them have been judging NCCC shows for some time now.
What I cannot speak for are the other judges and the judges that came forward from other clubs. These judges may account for the "unfairness" that is being mentioned here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard goldberg

i heard a few judges talk to people and say you won before they judges their car.

Doesn't suprise me, but again I don't think it was anyone of the judges in TCC. I can't speak for some of the others, but I can see some of them saying that. Now if it's a joke thats one thing.
Now....on the other hand....there are a few vettes at the show that are well known. And by well known I mean they are consistently the top finishers in the NCCC FL Region. The more veteran and NCCC concours judges know these vehicles. If you are in a class with one of these-you'd better have a lot of ammo to compete. I could see a judge judging 3 cars in a class and then walking up to the 4th-knows they guy, knows the car, the owner shoots the bull for a few minutes, then judges the vehicle or maybe he doesn't have to. A quick lookover and it may be easy to see it is yards beyond the other 3 already judged.
Here's two Examples:
StuzVette Silver C5 parked near the entrance.
Tony Diazs White 96 back near the lake.
Now of course, StuzVette wasn't photopgraphed or prasied as much as the awesome blue C6 next to him with the airbrushing...but the blue one did have more flaws than StuzVette and even the owner (Casey I think is his name) admitted that!

Pres712 · 03-13-2008, 08:47 AM

It's amazing that after every "judged" car show how much complaining goes on. I understand due to the fact that your Corvette is a very personal possession and one takes it as an affront when someone else "puts down" their car by not making it a winner. AND after every event someone always comes up with a more fair judging system. Since 1959 the National Council of Corvettes Clubs has consistently had judged car show and since 1959 has had a set of rules to help member (and non-member) clubs to host these shows. Presently there are 15 Regions, 269 clubs with over 16,500 members nationwide that present feed-back for this rule book. The reason is simple, when you attend a NCCC Sanctioned event; no matter where in the US, if you have a rule book you will know where your car will be placed (class) and how it will be judged. For a set of these rule please go to:

www.corvettesnccc.org

scroll down to "By-Laws, standing rules & competition manual" click on NCCC competition manual and click on Chapter 7. Concours D'Elegance. There in several pages is a compilation of 49 years of experience in not only car shows, but racing, rallying and all other forms of competition.

How your car is judged is never going to be perfect as long as humans are doing the judging. Either live with it or quit going to shows. I've been showing Corvettes since 1967 and in those 41 years have had my share of disappointments and winnings. Take the criticism, go home and fix the problem. And then go get 'em the next time!!!

2Vettes · 03-13-2008, 08:29 PM

I have to agree with Pres. With an NCCC show you know what class your car should be placed in, what will be judged and how. Each car in the class is judged the same way by the same judges.

vette8t7 · 03-14-2008, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Vettes

I have to agree with Pres. With an NCCC show you know what class your car should be placed in, what will be judged and how. Each car in the class is judged the same way by the same judges.

Yes, this would be nice too...but it does have it's flaws as well. From personal experience in involved the classification. Sometimes...there are vehicles that don't belong in your class. But, if you want to get all the points you can and you have competition in your class, then some of these people suddenly end up in your class. And...I can go furtehr to say if your club is trying to gain all the points it can you notice some wierd things going on.
From personal experience, I protested at a few events before I just got tired of it, b/c a C5 with nothing but decals on it was being entered in Custom. I'll restrain on "the buddy" system on this one. But what was interesting was at one show the first judge came by and judged my vette. Then a little while later the owner of the C5 that is in my class comes walking up saying he's judging my vette! WTF? Are you serious? I tried to explain some rationale thoughts. Told him he wasn't judging it, he said he was. I asked wasn't that his C5 in this class? To which he replied- yes. I then asked how he could judge a class with his vehicle in it. He said someone else judges his. Sorry, it does not work that way. I explained how the same two judges judge all the vehicles in that class. But, still he insisted he was judging it. I just wanted to knock him on his ass, but I just felt like I would be like godzilla swattiing a fly. Didn't seem like it would last long enough to be fun. So I told him fine. I was going to piss a whole bunch of people off as well as his club-I went and grabbed the NCCC rulebook and filled out a protest form and paid my $5. That brought the issue to light at the next NCCC Governors meeting. But, it didn't change. The decaled C5 continued to enter in modified, pissed off several other owners at other shows-who like me also had true modifed vettes. Heard several of tehm quit NCCC over it...