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Originally Posted by Z06 Rocket
FRS has been in the black (in a very big way) for a very long time. It is one of the top three producing retirement systems in the country. This is one of the first years ever that they had a loss. In an economy like this there will be losses, they just have to hold on. It will recover.
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The last I read (again, this was years ago), the system really couldn't support itself (under the old, non-contributory state system).
Under the present system, yes, in this economy which is where we have to live at the moment, the system was not going to support itself due to the overaggressive and somewhat risky investments previously made.
Sure it can and probably will survive. I hope so for those already in the new programs.
Time will tell.
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The cuts are unnecessary and a knee jerk reaction to try and stabilize his voter base. He claimes that he is a business man, and if there is anything to know about him it's that he gets his investors a return. He says that the citzens are his investors, and he is the CEO who will get them a return. I feel that the government employees are part of that investor group who need a return too.
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This is where I disagree.
Just like home prices, much of our economy has been artificially inflated.
ALL government needs to roll back and learn to live within thier respective budgets.
Once we get a grip on the economy, then we can start making improvements.
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They (police, fire, teachers, and thousands of other employees) have not received a raise (even a COLA raise) for the last 3-4 or 5 years.
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I'll have to take your word for it. I've been away from that for several years.
I'lll actually start drawing my crappy state retirement this year...I hope?
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That, combined with a decrease of 5% or more of salary to contribute to retirement is quite a hit.
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Again, this pertains primarily to state and county employees.
Many city agencies have had contributory retirements for decades.
Although it's a little hit now, it has always paid off big in the long run.
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Figure 2% COLA each year for four years, 8%, plus the 5% cut, is now 13% less pay.
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I can't agree with the math. The investment is an investment in your future retirement that you will eventually reap the benefit from.
I certainly can't argue the COLA.
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Additionally the fact that he wants cops to work 30-35 years (instead of 20-25 years for 75%) before collecting only 50% retirement is insane. Cops have more stress and statistically live much less time that most other professions. In his world he wants the cops/firefighters to work longer for less, then finally start earning only to die off (ie less payout after 35 years of paying in).
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Now this I agree with you on 100%
Non-Special risk employees have always had to work 30 years to get the max payout. Those of us in "high risk" or "special risk" we're getting off with 25.
I thought the 30 was rediculous for the standard employee.
For high risk, it's ludicrous.
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I'm not sure where you worked but being a cop is never a "piece of cake".
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I disagree, but it's probably more a matter of opinion
IMHO, it just wasn't that difficult.
I worked with the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office, one of the largest (5th in the country at the time) and most progressive agencies in the country.
Other than the damned politics, for the most part it was a no brainer!
Certainly its dangerous. I wasn't trying to imply otherwise
But it certainly didn't require a masters degree to do it.
Nor is it particularly physical the majority of the time.
I used to look around during my daily travels and saw a lot of people working much harder than I was for considerably less.
If one had a modicum of common sense, some street smarts, and paid attention during training, you'd make your 25+
So yes, compared to what I do now, in many way's it really was a piece of cake
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I won't even mention all the obvious things such as the requirement to take the abuse each and every day from the angry citizens who see the worlds problems as being the officer standing in front of them (with a smile) or possibly face discipline if you speak out.
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I face the same angry citizens on an almost daily basis.
They view me as the person responsible for thier problems.
We take verbal and sometimes physical abuse yet do not enjoy the suppport of many agencies (PCSO is the exception
) or the courts we serve
Customer service people also recieve thier fair share of abuse; albeit, not usually a life threatening as those encountered in either of our professions.
I don't consider this the sole realm of the law enforcement community.
About the only thing we don't have to worry too much about, is the speaking out.
With some exceptions, we're protected.
That said, situations encountered by (LEO's) can become much more violent much quicker simlpy due to the situations they're thrown into.
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Court time and standby keep the police from having a "normal" life.
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Unfortunatley, law enforcement is not a "normal" job.
I equate this arguement with the complaints of military personnel of having to go to some crap hole to fight.
It comes with the territory.
While true there is the occasional OT and court time, officers are compensated well for these hours that the private sector employee may not enjoy, especially if you own the beotch!
(or it owns you!)
Sure I had the OT and court.
As a motor cop for years, all of our court was
night court
I started work at 6am, off at 3pm, court at 7pm, usually not out until 9pm+.
Home at 10 or so.
Long days, but good $$$$ or comp time (our choice) which as a senior officer allowed me to take more time off with the family when I wanted to
To go a step further, at present the HCSO works 2 on, 2 off, 3 on 3 off, for a total of 15 workign days per month. Not bad for the $$$ they make.
Take a comp day here and there, and you've got a week off every other week.
Bottom line was, even with the OT and court thrown in, I had a pretty predictable schedule months at a time.
Detectives and such even much more.
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Just ask anyone who has completed a study showing that police have one of the highest divorce rates in the government sector.
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Actually, while I see your point, that same study showed the
CLERGY has one of the highest divorce (when they can marry), alcohol and suicide rates, of the groups studied, along with the police.
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The stress of the job (both mentally and on the life schedule) add up in a great big way. We also have the possibility that a cop will be shot and killed, hit and killed, or simply crash and die, - a fire fighter has similiar life threatening risks, and teachers have shooters on the mind as well (look at the VT Hokies shooting as the most severe - but not most recent - Columbine HS, and countless others) while payinig off 60k plus in college loans while at the bottom of the salary scale.
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Good points, however, taxicab drivers, road crews, tow drivers, and a host of others share and maybe exceed the opportunity to crash or get hit and killed.
As for getting shot, convenience store clerks are in a category that I wouldn't throw myself in if I had to collect beer cans to survive.
Security guards in some of the high risk areas are also at an extremely high risk, yet generally underpaid, under equipped, poorly trained and restrained by the STATE and it's antiquated requlations!
As we've seen recently
LEO's do on occasion get shot and occasionally do not survive thier shift.
That said,
some of these encounters and thier result can be almost directly attributed to officer error.
Considering the volume of high priority calls, traffic stops, etc., I'd say the percentages are relatively low.
Losing one is too many
, but as a percentage, we're pretty safe
I agree with you on the teachers.
We need to pay them MORE!!
Again, stop wasting $$$$ and start paying the employees on a performance based scale
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I know having a private sector job can be stressful, and that owning your own business can be even more stressful,, but the job security in the government sector was the benefit that was a "solid" benefit up till now.
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Why?
It's a job.
Why would we consider a government job more secure than any other? Why should it be?
When the private sector has to tighten the belt, they generally lay off and stop spending needlessly.
Why should government be exepmt?
In one of my businesses, when things get slow I stop all needless spending.
I cut back where I can, but try to make personnel a last resort...b ut that's me, and probably not a sound business move.
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It has been incorrectly referred to as a life time job, but that is an exaggeration to say the least.
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It was meant to be an exaggeration.
the implication in the post was that it was secure and due to the crappy pay (not always the case), should somehow be considered secure?
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The job is only a full career to those who put forth the effort. The job can and does end early for the people who mess up (just look at the headlines - they love printing stories about police / ff / teachers who get in trouble) when the same thing does not apply to the private sector.
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That's absolutely incorrect
It depends on what you're doing in the private sector.
As with my business, you have to be licensed. We're governed by either the Sheriff or the Chief Judge depending on jurisdiction.
Do the wrong thing and watch your certification go
Even without that, as has been attempted in recent years, and as recently (this year) demonstrated, our jobs and businesses can be written out of existence or drastically impacted, by poor legislation and special interests (insurance companies, lawyer lobbies, etc).
There's no real security in the private sector either.
As for the press (and we all love them), they'll throw us under the bus in a second as they will just about anyone.
It's true cops, FF's, etc make better targets. Probably has more to do with the whole "public trust" thing.
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Both private and gov sector jobs have plusses and minuses. The plus for gov was job security until now.
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All debate aside my brother, and thank you for your service
you're correct, it was.
Times they are a' changin'...
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