Laser jammers

[Shadow]

Brad,

The 30 over law made it a MANDATORY court appearance on the 1st violation (no options) but not criminal at that point.

Penalties of latter violations become progressively stiffer until it finally becomes criminal.

I agree that NHTSA has an agenda. Frankly, statistics can be skewed to give you (in most cases) the result you want.

Is speed a factor in most crashes?

Yes, but only because ANY speed above the POSTED LIMIT is a vioolation, and "may" have been a factor. The faster you go, the longer it takes to stop. If you're following too closely asn you mentioned then you need to slow down. So, even if the driver was doing the "posted limit", but was only 1 car length back, then "speed was a factor." See how easy that was to screw up the statistics

As for the effective ness of LASER or RADAR equipment, I've never owned a laser or radar dector or jammer so I really don't know?

Really? TPD (Tampa Police Department, Hillsborough) in their patrol cars who live in Pasco county when late for their shift are constantly hauling ass on the suncoast/veterans and pass FHP and they do nothing. Wish I had a free pass when I was late for work.

This is a hot button for me!!

At the Sheriff's Office, as long as I was there, we had assigned cars. For years we had these moles from the insurance company that insured the Sheriff, who would randomly spot check us. They'd follow us to work or down the road for a distance and note or videotape our driving habits then report back to the department.

Believe me, you didn't want to get nailed by them over once!
They're gone now as far as I know.

And you definately didn't want to generate a citizens complaint.

I see the same thing you do on a daily basis, and frankly, it pisses me off!!!

The same officer that will likely in an hour, be out writing the general populace tickets for speed, is busting balls down the interstate, late for work. Worse yet, trying to get home

How do I know?

I've called

It's easy enough to get the unit # of the patrol vehicle, the location and time and call the agency. They will tell you if the operator is on duty or off.

I had one so agregious, that I called and spoke with his supervisor. I always introduce myself (professionally), then make it clear that I don't want to initiate an IA complaint. I also make it clear that I do not wish any damage to the officers work record. Then I detail the action(s) I observed giving specifics (location, direction of travel, following distances, speed, etc.) In many cases, I'll set a speed and watch them pull away from me and use that as an indicator.

I make it clear that the reason I'm calling, is just because of what you mentioned above. THe PUBLIC's PERCEPTION!!

Think about it. It's rolling billboard for the agency.

The one in particular was coming south INTO the City of Tampa from Pasco County when I 1st encountered him. We were still several miles NORTH of the city limits.

He jumped on my a$$ and was less than 3 car lengths away at 70 MPH!!

I moved over thinking maybe, just maybe, he was a tactical member and on a call out? (try to give them the benefit of doubt).

I watched him tailgate several other vehicles, travel up to 85 mph, all the while outside the city and with no emergency equipment in operation!!

I followed him into the downtown area. He took a couple of irratic turns which made it obvious that he knew "someone" was watching. He headed off into the projects just north of the courthouse and I left him alone, once again, hoping that maybe, just maybe, he was headed to back up an officer! Rationally, it made no sense, but I was hoping.

A few minutes later, I saw him drive past the front of the Courthouse

I called and left a message for his supervisor.

The Sgt. later called back and I gave him a complete descriptive account of the actions I observed, in a clear, concise and professinal manner, to including the turn into the projects and the courthouse driveby.

Sarge said he'd check into it and call me back.

Sure enough, about an hour later, I get a call back fromthe Sgt.

It seems the knucklehead was off duty that day, was headed to court and was late!!

The officer tried to tell the Sgt. that he was backing up an officer in the projects on a stolen vehicle. Problem was, the Sgt. was on scene and told him "that's funny, I never saw you and you were not checked out on radio at the scene

BUSTED!!

Sarge asked if I wanted to do something more "formal" and I declined. I told him that whatever he decided to do was sufficient and I'd leave it in his ever capable hands.

Believe me, you can effect change, but you have to be willing and able to approach it professionally, as a concerned citizen and not a pissed off one, and with details.

Every now and then, the press gets involved and you see things slow down for a while. Unfortunately, some of these guys and gals feel they have the "free pass" as you mentioned.

I've gotten my share of breaks as a LEO and I won't deny that. Then again, I've given my share of breaks to the citizens as well.

and may just piss him/her off to write more citations.

I agree that it's disturbing, but it's a fact of life. We're human too.

If you want to stand there and argure (and I've had people become pretty heated and graphic before) with me, there's not much I can do.

If it's not too aggregious, I can't put you in jail for disorderly.

If you don't touch me, I can't put you in jail for battery.

Department and CJSTC standards didctate certain codes of conduct which preclude me from agruing back with you on the side of the road.

That said, bitch slapping you back into reality, is certainly out of the question!

So what options are left?

Ah yes...the safety check

Get comfortable, this may take a while


Hope everyone had a safe and enjoyable Memorial Day weekend and remembered those who never returned

Later guys


G~

[Bradzvette]

Gordon,

Thanks for the reply, always good to hear from you.

No doubt cops have a difficult duty. They have to determine how one individual's actions impact the greater good of everyone else each and every time and get it right with no margin for error. And scrutiny of Monday morning quarterbacks is never any fun at all.

In a way it seems cops and teachers are both always caught in the middle and the only ones looking out for us in reality are fellow colleagues. We count on and trust each other. So as a teacher myself I completely understand the closed ranks mentality. What is sad is that some of our brothers don't comprehend how we are all perceived. How what we do and how we act in the public eye brings scrutiny to us ALL.

In closing I would say that in really thinking about the TPD thing, I could let it go and give them the leeway and understanding if I just felt that I ever got any type of returned empathy. That FHP would give me a warning after running my license and driver history, on the veterans and say, "you know I have been late myself once in a while and had to push it, be safe and here is a warning. Have a great day."

Peace

[85vette]

The bottom line is that it truly is a thankless job. We just try to leave "our" little corner of the world a little better than we found it....

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by 85vette

The bottom line is that it truly is a thankless job. We just try to leave "our" little corner of the world a little better than we found it....

Yep certainly thankless, and likely to get much more so. With the state pushing LEOs to become uniformed and armed mobile tax collectors for the state, people are going to be building up a lot of resentment over that. It's one thing to believe the cops are only doing a tough job because it is needed for the benefit of the public safety, but another ball of wax entirely when you get to feeling that to hell with safety, let's get out there and rake in some money from the civilians. And the state, seeing the money being raked in, then starts making more and more things as fined infractions, plus increasing the cost of those fines as well when budget shortfalls are expected.

So yeah, safety checks are now a financial windfall exercise. I guess I'm getting tired, like most other people, of having someone constantly trying to get a grip on my wallet over one pretense or another, no matter what it is. Yes, we need laws, and we need people to enforce those laws. But don't get us thinking that the laws are merely a pretense to collecting yet another form of tax from the public.

If cops want respect, they have to be doing a respectable job to be respected by the public for what they are doing. Having the public perceive them as wolves looking for sheep to fleece (figuratively speaking) just is not going to earn them the respect that the job SHOULD earn them.

And no, I'm not blaming cops for the job becoming what it is now headed for. But it's certainly going to be driving a much bigger wedge between them and us before too long.

[floridaZ]

I agree with you Rich. Police officers should garner the same respect from the populace as people in the military do. But with so many things being illegal for no other practical reason than to fine people (or so it would seem), I personally can't be around a cop without feeling like I'm near an enemy. I'm not even sure why, either... probably too much time spent in Dade county.

[Z06 Rocket]

Originally Posted by floridaZ

I agree with you Rich. Police officers should garner the same respect from the populace as people in the military do. But with so many things being illegal for no other practical reason than to fine people (or so it would seem), I personally can't be around a cop without feeling like I'm near an enemy. I'm not even sure why, either... probably too much time spent in Dade county.

In my opinion, the problem with your theory of the officer being the enemy is that he is a troop, not a general or leader who dictates the pace of the war. Hate the war, not the soldier. They not only have a very tough job they are doing it with massive pay cuts and bills piling up like the rest of the world. They have the same financial stresses you have for your mortgage and bills, yet he has the added problem of people trying to kill him over the color of his shirt. If the officer isn't facing some hard core felon he is dealing with the drunks who kill them too when they veer towards the cruiser on the shoulder because they are mesmerized by the flashing lights. Then in the same day the officer may have to deal with a normal every day citizen who has some simple (yet world moving problem like a stolen credit card number) and still make as many people as happy as possible. The bottom line is they need that job, as big a pain as the job is, to feed their family and help make their portion of the world better for all by capturing the predators of society.

The officers as a whole (I understand there are bad apples in EVERY profession) really do the job to help, not hurt people. They are just following orders.I know speeding tickets suck, but what sane person would go out on the roads of ANY state if the police NEVER enforced traffic laws. I certainly would not go out there. It's crazy enough without the thought of a Mad Max scenario on the roads.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Shadow]

Rocket's right.

It's not all cops that are the problem. It's a few. Unfortunately, as we've seen here, it's those few we hear about.

And the "troop" analogy was right on target

They don't "make" the policies, they simply try to enforce them. And as with any other job, if you don't do whats expected of you, you'll not get promoted and may not get retained as things are going recently.

And speaking of recent cuts, as I mentioned in another thread, there's absolutely NO REASON (can you hear idiots me Coats? Gee? Anyonter administrator that is having these thoughts?) to furlough, fire or WTF ever you want to call it, active, street level LEOS!!

Dumping the DUI squad was a good moveIt was antiquated and ineffective for what it costs.

But to consider terminating street cops as long as we have massive spending, rediculous numbers of upper level managment and pay scales to accompany them is absolutely ludicrous.

This is an easy fix but you're going to have to quit whining like a school girl and want to fix the problem!

Anyway, back on topic, street cops just try to abide by the sometimes rediculous policies of thier administration. When stupid reared it's ugly head, we simply did as little as necessary to "look like" we were complying while having as minimal impact on the general populace as possible until they (the administration) got over it

Stay safe.

G

[floridaZ]

Originally Posted by Z06 Rocket

The officers as a whole (I understand there are bad apples in EVERY profession) really do the job to help, not hurt people. They are just following orders.

Exactly what I was getting at, but I just see too many things that I don't like at all. Like undercover cop cars, I can understand using them if you are doing surveillance, or busting a meth lab. I can even understand chasing a running car in one if the marked cars need the assistance. But using them for traffic enforcement quite frankly pisses me off. A marked car is much better at getting a lot of people to reduce speed. So if the goal is to get the tickets in and generate revenue, they are a great idea; but if you want to preach on about how they are there for public safety, I call BS. And they are the worst for doing their own traffic infractions too, since they know it's harder to get a tag number than to get a vehicle number. Like that asshole in the grey Charger.

I've seen times where the local PD parks their marked cruiser in a place where people speed (in a position that makes it look like a speed trap), and then walk off and go have lunch. It's amazing how many people do the speed limit when those guys are eating. We need more officers like that than the ones preying on the general populace in the unmarked cars.

[Rich Z]

Once the focus of law enforcement turned more towards revenue collection and actual public safety became a secondary focus, then the rules and perception changed for a lot of people. Traffic enforcement is just a form of tax collection these days, and people are beginning to resent it.

[85vette]

No one can truly appreciate the job a Law enforcement Officer does, except another LEO. The job is so broad, but the public usually only sees what is visible from behind the wheel of their car. Unless you are that person that has a prowler outside their house at 2 AM, or the parent of a teenager that has been killed in a traffic accident, or the guy whose stolen Four Wheeler we recovered last night, you probably only see us as the Jacka$$ with the ticket book who is going to cost you a bunch of money and make your insurance go up.
The truth is, most of us (I do say MOST) are just like you. We just have this crazy job with weird hours and have supervisors that tell us to do things that don't make much sense to us. But it's a job, and we were not drafted, we chose this lifestyle.
Where else can you get paid to speed on the streets and get away with it?
And I can park down the street from a bar at 2 AM and be accused of harrassing drunks!?! Contact your County Sheriff's Office and ask if you can participate in a "Ride Along" program. See what WE see, from behind the wheel of OUR car. The view is amazingly different!