Next Level Performance (Inquiry) - Page 2

tj37_2 · 09-04-2006, 09:07 AM

Read EnglandGreen's response to my post
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1480232

Shadow · 09-04-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tj37_2

Read EnglandGreen's response to my post
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1480232

...Read it...and?

Thats one persons opinion as are these posted here. There's a tuner who advertises on another site that has done similar and worse things to peoples cars (can be documented) and still...many people swear by him???

It's all in the perception.

How many superchargers has NLP installed? If you do enough of anything, something will go wrong. Furthermore, what were the particulars of those 2 "forum members" catastrophies? Were the problems caused by NLP or "driver induced?"

Without more qualifying information, England Greens opinion is just that...his opinion.

Isn't he also a Tuner? So, wouldn't he be in competition with NLP?

Regardless, I'm not a leg humper for anyone's business. If I know either through personal experience or through friends I trust, that they do a good job, I'll recommend them. If they suck (same criteria), I won't .

Good luck in your next choice.

tj37_2 · 09-04-2006, 10:30 AM

I agree that IS one persons opinion but it is nice to have a forum where they can be voiced without being banned or deleted because the supporting tuner is putting money in there pockets and the people suffering for it is the members.

How many ECS's superchargers HAS NLP installed when thay call me up the next day and tell me its going to cost more because i have the newer power steering bracket.
(My car is a 2004...Last year of the c5 and they didn't know this ?)
A tuner that admits to seeing 11 lbs of boost (knowing it has a stock bottom end)when he is dyno tuning a car at doesn't realize there is a problem ?

Turn around and tell me the restrictor plate wasn't in the kit or in the instructions so his guys wouldn't have known to put it in so its not his fault ?
I would have to say he hasn't installed enough.

And no England Green is not a tuner he don't even work on cars for a living. He is just a corvette lover with a great deal of knowledge that goes above and beyond to help every one.

I am not here to tell anyone where or not to take there car.
This is just my experience with NLP.

If there are other shops out there that have screwed up someones car i think everyone has a right to know who they are

Shadow · 09-04-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tj37_2

I agree that IS one persons opinion but it is nice to have a forum where they can be voiced without being banned or deleted because the supporting tuner is putting money in there pockets and the people suffering for it is the members.

Amen to that one!!!

Thats one thing I don't forsee happening here. One reason is a statement made by the site owner/administrator and the other is because as a Florida forum vs. a nationwide forum such as CF, we tend to be a little closer and look oout for each other a bit more.:thumbsup:

How many ECS's superchargers HAS NLP installed when thay call me up the next day and tell me its going to cost more because i have the newer power steering bracket.

That my friend, was a rhetorical question

(My car is a 2004...Last year of the c5 and they didn't know this ?)

They all look alike???

A tuner that admits to seeing 11 lbs of boost (knowing it has a stock bottom end)when he is dyno tuning a car at doesn't realize there is a problem ?

Does the name Formato mean anything to you?

Turn around and tell me the restrictor plate wasn't in the kit or in the instructions so his guys wouldn't have known to put it in so its not his fault ?
I would have to say he hasn't installed enough.

Might be right?

And no England Green is not a tuner he don't even work on cars for a living. He is just a corvette lover with a great deal of knowledge that goes above and beyond to help every one.

Thats cool. I thought based on his CF posts and responses that he was a tuner or had a shop? My bad and my apologies for the implication. Looky at waht assumptions do to ya

I am not here to tell anyone where or not to take there car.
This is just my experience with NLP.

Nor am I, just giving a second opinion

If there are other shops out there that have screwed up someones car i think everyone has a right to know who they are

Absolutely!

Good chatting with ya and good luck with whatever shop you choose

tj37_2 · 09-04-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow

Absolutely!

Good chatting with ya and good luck with whatever shop you choose

I took my car to NLP because all you hear on CF is how good he is.
At this point i am afraid to take my car to any shop

EnglandGreen · 09-04-2006, 02:50 PM

Just to set the record straight - I am an IT Manager by day, and a wrench spinner by night. I work on my own car and on my friend's cars.

I do not have a shop, I do not help people for a living, nor do I have any axe to grind with NLP or anyone else.

I have a ECS Paxton kit on my car and I know quite a bit about it - and about C5s in general. I also have an excellent relationship with ECS themselves.

Tom (tj37_2) is the SECOND NLP installed Paxton kit that I have been involved in. The other is Ben (Z_Rocks on the Corvette Forum). They screwed up Ben's install and they did the same with Tom's.

I met Mike Norris at the NCM in May 06, and he did not strike me as a bad guy. He did have some stupid opinions, however. Example - he was busy disparaging the STS TT kit - and right next to me was CajunDude who is putting down 800rwhp from a stock STS kit.

'Nuff said.

Bottom line with NLP is I do not understand why they will not at least say "we do not like the ECS kit and we will not install it". Instead, they take your money and do a poor installation.

And for that, I do take issue - but that is true of any Tuner.

EG :cheers:

Shadow · 09-04-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglandGreen

Just to set the record straight - I am an IT Manager by day, and a wrench spinner by night. I work on my own car and on my friend's cars.

I do not have a shop, I do not help people for a living, nor do I have any axe to grind with NLP or anyone else.

Yep! Think that was cleared up earlier

I have a ECS Paxton kit on my car and I know quite a bit about it - and about C5s in general. I also have an excellent relationship with ECS themselves.

Tom (tj37_2) is the SECOND NLP installed Paxton kit that I have been involved in. The other is Ben (Z_Rocks on the Corvette Forum). They screwed up Ben's install and they did the same with Tom's.

I met Mike Norris at the NCM in May 06, and he did not strike me as a bad guy. He did have some stupid opinions, however. Example - he was busy disparaging the STS TT kit - and right next to me was CajunDude who is putting down 800rwhp from a stock STS kit.

'Nuff said.

Bottom line with NLP is I do not understand why they will not at least say "we do not like the ECS kit and we will not install it". Instead, they take your money and do a poor installation.

Good question? Maybe we could lay this on Mr. Norris and see what he has to say?

And for that, I do take issue - but that is true of any Tuner.

EG :cheers:

EnglandGreen · 09-05-2006, 11:24 AM

Good luck with that. Like I said, I have no axe to grind with Mike Norris - nor is it in my best interest to antagonise him.

But from the 2 disgruntled Paxton owners I have met face to face, they were definitely not happy with his services.

Based on all the negative things that NLP has said, I think they should not install either the ECS Paxton or the STS TT systems. Anyone that goes to them for an installation of those 2 systems is ill advised.

Good luck

EG

Mike Norris · 09-05-2006, 04:30 PM

Howdy Everyone,

Figured I would chime in since a few folks have had a bit of a negative feel towards me an my shop. For those with the kind words, as always thank you very much. I had no idea this board existed and was pointed out the thread by a potential customer.

I will give the best and honest info as I can for folks to make an educated decision on a purchase, whether it is through me or a competitor. On Tom's car, there is a lot of back ground and I do not intend to call him a liar by any means. I would be upset also if a new car had issues. Last I spoke with Tom and looked at pictures he sent me, it looked as though a couple pistons had burned on cylinders 4 & 6 (if I remember correctly). I asked him to let me know when he removed the pistons to see if the ring lands were broken which would help in diagnosis. I had also been in contact with Doug at ECS and he was working with us to see what we could do.

On a couple quick items, first to the power steering bracket. We had done one other Corvette, Ben's as EG mentioned, and it had the correct bracket. ECS had designed the kit around the older style bracket and there is no mention in their instructions if what to do if the newer bracket is present. Not really a big deal. We called ECS and he said that to do the idler pulley mod an older bracket is needed and we proceeded to let Tom know. He was upset and thought we should know, but since we had not run into this on the one other C5 we did, and there is nothing in the ECS instructions I can not figure out how we would know. We did come up with a resolution quickly when we called ECS and let tom know. If he would like to be upset over that, no problem as it is his right.

Next, the overboost on the dyno. Yes we did see 11 psi at one point when I ran the engine up to verify the AF ratio to be sure it would hold. No detonationwas noted and AF was fine. After that the runs were kept to the shift point are for tuning. When the higher boost was brought up, Tom asked about a restrictor that was supposed to be in the kit. The kit came to us open and no restrictor was found. When asked why we did not put one in, I pointed out that I had no idea there was to be a restrictor, was not told by the parst supplier ahead of time (Tom), and there is nothing in the instructions about a restrictor. Tom had mentioned a parts list, but we did not have it that we could find. Tom also said he did not recall seeing the restrictor and ECS could not verify for sure that they shipped one. We talked to the guys at ECS several times to come to the conclusion of what to do and they were going to send down a restrictor last I heard. Tom also mentioned he was hitting the limiter on shifts at times, not consistantly which lead me to believe the trans may be slipping, but odd it would not just fail. On the dyno and street testing we were getting shifts in the 5800-6000 area.

On the billing and over charge, that was my bad all the way as I made a mistake there. Also my guys got started on the install before I had a chance to do a baseline and I know that did not set well. I will take that blame also as they are my guys. They were just trying to be efficient.

On the engine damage, I know Tom, Doug @ ECS and myself were going over things back and forth and I had last seen a few pics Tom sent me a bit ago. I explained at that time that if I could get some pics of the pistons out of the car that it owuld help a bunch. From what I saw initially it looked like, as mentioned above, it could have been an injector issue. Just hard to say by pictures.

This now is the first I have heard of anything else in, I am guessing, 2 months or so. I am still willing to take a look and see what else can be figured out.

As far as EG's comment's, I ill cover these one by one.

On Tom's kit, if the install issue is the restrictor, how am I to install a piece not supplied nor in the instructions. If I did miss something else and it is viable, no problem as any time I or my shop makes a mistake, it is good to know what it is for future reference.

I talked to Ben (Z-Rocks) today after reading this to see if he had any issue's at all and he said no. He was actually not happy that you would post what you did. The issues he had were with a noisey tensioner supplied by ECS and dropping fuel pressure. ECS sent down a new tensioner, which did the same thing and also sent down a replacement fuel pump. The new tensioner was again repalced with an anodized coated piece which seems to be working well he mentioned. No install issues per Ben, but more an ECS issue which they stepped up for him.

On my feeling's towards the ECS kit, it is nothing bad, I just have a preference to the A&A kit. You prefer the ECS and that is great. With the first few A&A kits we went through a few things, but the instructions seemed a bit better and covered everything. When info as to different brackets and restrictors are not mentioned, I believe a revision is needed as that seems to be important. Again, I would prefer a larger pulley over a restrictor, but that is just me.

On Cajundude, the STS kit and my "some stupid opinions", no I do not like the STS as it is a very improperly engineered kit from a turbo stand point. Does it work? So far it does. I just have a hard time seeing this kit for $8K when a properly engineered C6 APS kit is $9K. If folks are happy with what they have, again that is great. If I broke Cajundude's feelings, that was not my intent at all.

We can and will install about anything, we just prefer to let folks know what we feel the pitfalls are of any particular package compared to other's. Everything has a down side, some just worse then other's.

For Tom, if you have more pic's please e-mail them to me. If you did test the injector's let me know how they came out. If you have not yet tested the injector's, I still strongly suggest you do. Just a simple piece of mind so that you do not go through this again. Unless of course you just are going to put new ones in. But without testing them, we may never know and blaming myself or my shop is mute at that point. I also just spoke with Doug & Chirs @ ECS if he had any later info then myself and they said no.

Again, please do not take this is an attack on either Tom or EG, I am just responding to what was mentioned about myself and my shop to tell my side of things. I am sure I left something out along the way. I will take blame where it is due, and from the guys at ECS, they say there is no responsibilty also on our end as well as theirs. Hope this helps.

Mike Norris

silverback · 12-04-2006, 08:51 PM

I feel that I must add my two cents: I just had NLP add the first of several
mods to my car, so far to date intake, long tube headers, high flow cats,
corsa indy pro tips, and tuning. Love the sound, new power, went from 290 to 327 hp and torque from 305 to 350. I plan next for a cam and head package from them. Happy and pleased with my service and care.