Carless driving ticket for acclerating to fast??

[Rich Z]

No man..... Data logging software is also used (often PRIMARILY used) for diagnostic purposes in order to gather data to FIX problems. Dealerships use the equivalent ALL of the time, and is considered to be invaluable for troubleshooting. If you have an issue that only shows up during acceleration, then data logging DURING acceleration is the only way to detect, then fix that problem. You were doing nothing more nor less than any competent dealership technician would do under the same circumstances.

Don't let some modern day Wyatt Earp wannabe take away your enjoyment of driving your car. Make him PROVE his claims in court. Not just toss out some half baked suppositions and assumptions that he can't back up with hard data. MAKE him show data indicating how rapidly you got from point A to point B and how fast you were going at the time. If he doesn't have PROOF, then he doesn't have a case. Matter of fact, since you were apparently data logging with your tuning software, YOU do, in fact have PROOF to show to the judge. That data should show everything you need in order to prove your case. It SHOULD show engine RPM, throttle positioning, and vehicle speed related to time. ALL of those factors will indicate your acceleration at the time the officer claims you were violating HIS (possibly flawed) interpretation of the law.

[MiamiMuscle]

Originally Posted by Rich Z

No man..... Data logging software is also used (often PRIMARILY used) for diagnostic purposes in order to gather data to FIX problems. Dealerships use the equivalent ALL of the time, and is considered to be invaluable for troubleshooting. If you have an issue that only shows up during acceleration, then data logging DURING acceleration is the only way to detect, then fix that problem. You were doing nothing more nor less than any competent dealership technician would do under the same circumstances.

Don't let some modern day Wyatt Earp wannabe take away your enjoyment of driving your car. Make him PROVE his claims in court. Not just toss out some half baked suppositions and assumptions that he can't back up with hard data. MAKE him show data indicating how rapidly you got from point A to point B and how fast you were going at the time. If he doesn't have PROOF, then he doesn't have a case. Matter of fact, since you were apparently data logging with your tuning software, YOU do, in fact have PROOF to show to the judge. That data should show everything you need in order to prove your case. It SHOULD show engine RPM, throttle positioning, and vehicle speed related to time. ALL of those factors will indicate your acceleration at the time the officer claims you were violating HIS (possibly flawed) interpretation of the law.

You are probably right and I appreciate your advice, but I just dont have the heart to stomach this and i really cant afford court cost and fees if i end up losing. Plus if i dont win, im going to become so bitter at the system that theres no telling what i might do. Im just going to work with the system and do the whole driving school crap again and snooze thru those 4 hours and just be content with the peace of mind that my insurance wont go up. If all goes toplan. this will be the last time I get a ticket, since im going to be going green and slow, I refuse funding police departments that put revenue first over human compassion. I know its going to suck driving a lil v4 everyday and im probably going to have an estrogen imbalance as a result of it, but driving my v8 everyday is just going to be too much of a temptation to accelerate fast and nothisn sadder than a muscle car in the slow lane.

Can anyone please suggest some clubs or track nights, anything or anywhere i can speed worry free and legally. I'll sell my apartment and buy a vette if i have too!!! please, anyone????

[Z06 Rocket]

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Don't let some modern day Wyatt Earp wannabe take away your enjoyment of driving your car.

What makes him a Wyatt Earp wannabe? Thats the kind of cop bashing that the other boards do... I am pretty disappointed to hear it from you Rich. His interpretation of the action was that it was serious enough to warrant a citation. Whay does he have to be some sort of gung ho cop to write it? The laws the law, no matter who you are, or what you drive. I am waiting to hear more about "He cited me because I was driving a Vette and he was jealous"... Oh wait, the poster headed that one off by clearing up the air and telling us he had a Hemi instead of a Vette... I think the original poster kept it very civil, yet you took it to a new level.......

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Make him PROVE his claims in court. Not just toss out some half baked suppositions and assumptions that he can't back up with hard data. MAKE him show data indicating how rapidly you got from point A to point B and how fast you were going at the time. If he doesn't have PROOF, then he doesn't have a case.

His observations are his proof. There is no requirement or law or even a recomendation by the courts to say that the violation, no matter what the violation is, has to be on video. Thats the only HARD PROOF I can think of you demanding he show the original poster. he officer took an oath to uphold the law. I know there are bad apples in every job in the world, but just because the officer wrote a citation doesn't mean he's corrupt, or out to get the average joe, or trying to make a quota.... for cripes sake... It gets friggin old.. REAL old!!!

[Lady N]

THE LAWS WERE MADE TO PROTEC US . IN YOUR CASE GET A LAWYER AND GET HIS ADVISED AND WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE PUSHING THE CAR AGAIN , BE READY FOR ANY CONSEQUENCES. THERE ARE TRACK IN FLORIDA WHERE YOU CAN PUSH 150 OR BETTER AND THERE WILL BE NO TICKETS . AND REMENBER PEOPLE WRECKLESS DRIVING CAN BE CROSSING YOUR LANE AND GETTING BACK INTO YOUR LANE.CHECK OUT MOROSSO TRACK NOT FAR FROM YOU

[MiamiMuscle]

Originally Posted by Lady N

THE LAWS WERE MADE TO PROTEC US . IN YOUR CASE GET A LAWYER AND GET HIS ADVISED AND WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE PUSHING THE CAR AGAIN , BE READY FOR ANY CONSEQUENCES. THERE ARE TRACK IN FLORIDA WHERE YOU CAN PUSH 150 OR BETTER AND THERE WILL BE NO TICKETS . AND REMENBER PEOPLE WRECKLESS DRIVING CAN BE CROSSING YOUR LANE AND GETTING BACK INTO YOUR LANE.CHECK OUT MOROSSO TRACK NOT FAR FROM YOU

I accelerated from 0-30 at 2:30am with not a single pedestrian anywhere near me in the middle lane of a 3 lane road. Soon as i reached 30 i let off or else he would of gotten me for speeding. Is this considered pushing my car and would i have recieved a verbal warning if he hadnt seen the tuner connected to my car i was using for data logging. Was it neccessary to write "tuner in car-racing" and for those non believers i will scan the ticket and post it, i am not trying to make cops look bad. I admit to doing a lot of things i should have gotten tickets for but this was definatley not one of them. also if i did something so bad why did the officer follow me for 5 blocks before pulling me over, did he expect i was going to speed and when i didnt pulled me over anyways, because thats the impressions i got.

Your right many laws are made to protect us, but many are also written under the disguise of saftey but in reality are created to generate revenue. Im a firm beleiver that if the gov passed a law where all ticket revenue was invested back into the community to build safer roads and create safe driving programs like in germany, non of this would happen and cops would instead focus on the truly dangerous drivers posing a legitimate risk to drivers and themselves.

[Lady N]

YOU WHEN 5 BLOCK B-4 HE PULLED YOU OVER BECAUSE HE WAS LOOKING FOR ANY SIGN OF DUI ALSO HE PROBABLY WAS LOOKING FOR A SAFE PLACE FOR BOTH YOU AND HIM ,MIAMI HAS BAD PLACES . AT 2.30 AM THE ARE LOOKINF FOR ANY MINOR INFRACTION TO PULL ANY THERE ARE TO MANY DRUNK DRIVERS OUT THERE AT THAT TIME OF THE NITE. IT IS ALL FOR ARE OWN GOOD. MY KID WAS GIVING 5 TICKETS B-4 HE LEARN HIS LESSON . MY ADVISED GET A TRAFFIC LAWYER ADVISED. ALSO CHECK THE TRACK IN HOMESTEAD . OR THERE IS SOUTH BEACH AND CORAL GABLES WHERE YOU JUST PARADE AT 10 MILES AN HOURS TO CHECK OUT THE SITES AND SHOW OFF YOUR CAR. DONT FORGET THE MIRACLE MILE.

[Shadow]

Lot of good info here and I thank the OP for "clearing the air"

I too am a fan of any well built muscle car, regardless of age, make or model. Hell, I even appreciate some of the ricers when they're done right

I don't want to see "cop bashing" either. I don't think that's where Rich was coming from, regardless of how it sounded. I've known him for some time now and spent a decent bit of time talking with him in person. There's not a cop hater bone in his body.

If you read some of my responses to police related matters you'd think I was adamantly opposed to the police and authority. Instead it's 180 degrees from it. But I do believe in doing the job correctly and professionally and I'll be the first one to nail a renegade offier. No use for them at all

I'll also be the 1st one out of the car to assist you in an arrest when you're on a lonly stretch of highway, to slow down and check on you when you by yourself on a stop or FIR, and to come to your defense when some citizen starts running thier yap about things they know nothing about

Speaking from many years of experience, as several have mentioned, there are bad apples everywhere. We have them as do doctors, lawyers and well, you name it?

And again as mentioned, the "proof" is in fact the officers observations. I'd almost like to see mandatory video cams in all partol cars and have the tapes made part of the ticket package.

1) The first thing it would do is rid us of the BS tickets and the "trumped up" charges (yes, they do exist albeit rarely).
2) Next it would reduce the back log in the courts. When people know they are on tape, it's higly unlikely they're going to continue to desire a court date just to have thier asses handed to them

3) On the occasion that a driver is innocent of the charge, which "IF" the "facts" are as the OP states, then that too would be immediately evident.

Easy cases to dispose of from either side and less wasted time and officer OT. That goes more toward keeping the budgets in line

The "tuner" is as Rich said and you can bring that "fact" up in court if the tuner is brought into question. Here's the rub...if I were the judge or magistrate, the next question would be....why are you "testing" your car on a public street. I'd have to go back and review the chapter, but that may be a part of the "racing" statute. If so, you're screwed again.

In this matter, I'd either do as you plan (not a bad plan either) or hire one of the ticket lawyers to handle it for you and move on.

BTW...I love the Hemi'sIf I could justify one as a DD I'd have one. Lots of room, good looks and reasonable performance...and you can actually get **** in and out of them without being a contortionist

Lets keep things on point please, stay focused on the facts and keep the opinions to those that can either be supported or at least keep them civil

And please, no cop bashingLEts leave that to some of the other websites...they're better at it

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by Z06 Rocket

What makes him a Wyatt Earp wannabe? Thats the kind of cop bashing that the other boards do... I am pretty disappointed to hear it from you Rich. His interpretation of the action was that it was serious enough to warrant a citation. Whay does he have to be some sort of gung ho cop to write it? The laws the law, no matter who you are, or what you drive. I am waiting to hear more about "He cited me because I was driving a Vette and he was jealous"... Oh wait, the poster headed that one off by clearing up the air and telling us he had a Hemi instead of a Vette... I think the original poster kept it very civil, yet you took it to a new level.......

Calling into question the actions of a cop is not cop bashing. It is expressing my opinions of the details that were provided here. Which, if I'm not mistaken, I am fully entitled to do. Please correct me if I am mistaken.... Granted, I am only hearing one side of the story, but in any court (official or otherwise) a judge in a similar circumstance would preface the judgement rendered in a similar case with "lacking any contrary evidence...".

So are you SERIOUSLY trying to feed me the line that cops don't get attitudes that are unwarranted and/or misplaced? That they don't make MISTAKES in interpretting a situation? That they are not human and have bad days which cause them to make bad calls or even MALICIOUS calls when enforcing laws? Well if that is the case, then I fear you are severely limited in your perspective and interpretation of the REAL world.

The "evidence" presented here was that someone merely accelerated up to the speed limit. He states he did not burn rubber or exceed the speed limit. He stated that he had a tuner attached to his car and the officer made a judgement largely based on that particular circumstantial evidence. Quite frankly, how can anyone accelerate up to ANY legal speed limit in a dangerous or careless fashion without burning rubber? For that matter, what the hell does "careless" even mean in this instance? The driver could care less how quickly he got to the speed limit? Well hell, that covers nearly ALL of us every time we drive.

Originally Posted by Z06 Rocket

His observations are his proof. There is no requirement or law or even a recomendation by the courts to say that the violation, no matter what the violation is, has to be on video. Thats the only HARD PROOF I can think of you demanding he show the original poster. he officer took an oath to uphold the law. I know there are bad apples in every job in the world, but just because the officer wrote a citation doesn't mean he's corrupt, or out to get the average joe, or trying to make a quota.... for cripes sake... It gets friggin old.. REAL old!!!

I call BS on that one. No law gives the power to the enforcer of such law that of a "can do no wrong" level of competence. Any cop who causes someone to have to appear in court because of their "observation" should be able to PROVE their case. Saying "it appeared to me" or "my observation indicated" is NOT proof, and more or less then the defendant making the same claim in their defense.

I believe that ANY defendant in court has the right to require PROOF from the prosecution. Proof is what makes a court of law work the way it is supposed to. Hearsay or ad hoc observations and assumptions have no place in a court where someone is on trial for an offense of any sort, whether it is civil or criminal in nature.

And as for the "oath to uphold the law", certainly you are not suggesting that this is some sort of commandment from GOD that absolutely prevents an officer from stretching the truth or making a mistake in judgement? Are you seriously suggesting that each and every officer of the law who takes such an oath absolutely and 100 percent without fail upholds that oath?

Hell, I would highly suspect that each and everyone here at one time or another has been subjected to the actions of an officer of the law that were not exactly in line with their "oath" and quite likely the results of some personal issue that was clouding their professional judgement.

This is NOT cop bashing. This is DISCUSSING the issue of anyone in the capacity to hold that trust of the people to enforce the laws evenly, fairly, and LEGALLY to do so as a professional and fails to do so based on some likely personal issue, misinterpretation of the law, or otherwise over extend their authority to the detriment of those people they are entrusted to serve and protect.

Sorry, but I do not give cops (or anyone, for that matter) a carte blanche merely because of the job they have taken. I do recognize the trials and tribulations the job entails for them, but that does NOT excuse any that flaunt the power of their job and lose focus of the responsibility that authority places on them.

If YOU consider that as cop bashing, then that is YOUR observation and opinion, not necessarily having anything at all to do with FACT. I'm simply exercising MY right to call a spade a spade, based on the evidence I have viewed. You may interpret it differently, and more power to you if that is the case. But don't come here on THIS site bashing on ME because of YOUR own contrary opinion.

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by Shadow

The "tuner" is as Rich said and you can bring that "fact" up in court if the tuner is brought into question. Here's the rub...if I were the judge or magistrate, the next question would be....why are you "testing" your car on a public street. I'd have to go back and review the chapter, but that may be a part of the "racing" statute. If so, you're screwed again.

Actually when the dealerships put on the Tech2 on the diagnostic port on your car in order to diagnose problems, that is EXACTLY what they do. They take the car out on public roads for a test drive. This is not anything unusual or abnormal at all. I mean, how else would you do it? If you come in to a dealership claiming you have a miss or stumble during acceleration, how else would they diagnose the problem?

Every time I have had something fixed on any of my vehicles or modifications done, I fully believe that my car was afterwards taken out on public roads for a "test drive". Which was to do what? And whether the tech used the Tech 2, HPtuners, EFIlive or their own experience base to try to diagnose a problem, the methodology and the public roads used during the exercise were the same. Hell, I've used HPtuners to track down an intermittent problem with my MAF and IAT sensors. And yes it was done on public roads and NO I was not violating any laws at the time I was doing the troubleshooting. Actually there really is no other way in order to do that sort of troubleshooting.

So why would someone using any sort of tuner be considered as de facto evidence of wrong doing?

[85vette]

All I can say is take it to court. I'd like to see how this one turns out. But, as others have said, get a lawyer or be prepared to pay up to $500.00 in court cost, plus the original fine. I imagine the cost will be about the same either way.