Nytro,
What you're saying is totally true. Everything the violator is doing is wrong...period!
The difference is, in Florida, based IIRC on a Supreme Court ruling, speed alone, minus the presence of any mitigating factors, in not a criminal violation...it's just excessive speed.
Add just about any of the factors you or Hot Pursuit mentioned and you now have
RECKLESS DRIVING, which under Florida statutes is a criminal violation.
It's not that difficult to turn "speed" into a criminal violation. It's simply that most of us don't do it.
I've been a LEO for almost 30 years and the fastest I've ever stopped anyone and issued them a citation for is 127MPH. That was a Porsche that was just runnignh throught the gears and hadn't even gotten it wound up yet
As a retired motorcycle cop, we issued a lot of citations (about 20-25/day), but also issued about twice the number of warnings. You'd get a warning somtimes simply due to your attitude or demeanor. Right or wrong, we still have the discretion and believe me, you wouldn't want that taken away
Currently, I seldom issue citations. I spend most of the time on duty, using speed and other violations as PC for the stop and looking for drugs/weapons/gang activity/warrants, etc.
If I don't find any indication of the aforementioned, I'll usually issue a warning unless the infraction warrants a cite.
About the only part of HP's post I didn't agree with and it's such a minor issue it wasn't worth debating is this:
One exception (and we were only taking about 1 car speeding excessivly in the previous posting) is "Racing on the highways". Racing doesn't actually need high speeds, and can be a slow down next to another car (obviously below the speed limit for a "rolling start") with the intent of competing in a speed contest where the endurance, speed, or stamina of the car will be tested in a race to a point off in the distance.
Although taken almost vberbaitim from FS, you'd have to show the intent to race to charge someone with the above for slowing down side by side. Of course in car video may do the trick, but otherwise you're mindreading and unless certified in same, you may lose the case
Racing can still be charged when only one vehicle is present:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0316/SEC191.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0316->Section%20191#0316.191
b) "Drag race" means the operation of two or more motor vehicles from a point side by side at accelerating speeds in a competitive attempt to outdistance each other,
or the operation of one or more motor vehicles over a common selected course, from the same point to the same point, for the purpose of comparing the relative speeds or power of acceleration of such motor vehicle or motor vehicles within a certain distance or time limit.
And this is where the officer "could" have used this statute to make it criminal (depending on when that stop was made. This statute is fairly recent)
(c) "
Racing" means the use of one or more motor vehicles in an attempt to outgain or outdistance another motor vehicle, to prevent another motor vehicle from passing,
to arrive at a given destination ahead of another motor vehicle or motor vehicles, or to test the physical stamina or endurance of drivers over long-distance driving routes.
He'd have had to use some creative writing but it could have been done
.
"If" the driver changed lanes at all during this little ride he could have used this one:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0316/SEC1923.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0316->Section%201923#0316.1923
Aggressive careless driving.--"Aggressive careless driving" means committing two or more of the following acts simultaneously or in succession:
(1) Exceeding the posted speed as defined in s. 322.27(3)(d)5.b.
(2) Unsafely or improperly changing lanes as defined in s. 316.085.
(3) Following another vehicle too closely as defined in s. 316.0895(1).
(4) Failing to yield the right-of-way as defined in s. 316.079, s. 316.0815, or s. 316.123.
(5) Improperly passing as defined in s. 316.083, s. 316.084, or s. 316.085.
(6) Violating traffic control and signal devices as defined in ss. 316.074 and 316.075.
And finally, just FYI, here's the Florida Uniform Traffic Code on unlawful speed:
316.183 Unlawful speed.--
(1)
No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing. In every event, speed shall be controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person, vehicle, or other conveyance or object on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to use due care.
(2) On all streets or highways, the maximum speed limits for all vehicles must be 30 miles per hour in business or residence districts, and 55 miles per hour at any time at all other locations. However, with respect to a residence district, a county or municipality may set a maximum speed limit of 20 or 25 miles per hour on local streets and highways after an investigation determines that such a limit is reasonable. It is not necessary to conduct a separate investigation for each residence district. The minimum speed limit on all highways that comprise a part of the National System of Interstate and Defense Highways and have not fewer than four lanes is 40 miles per hour, except that when the posted speed limit is 70 miles per hour, the minimum speed limit is 50 miles per hour.
(3) No school bus shall exceed the posted speed limits, not to exceed 55 miles per hour at any time.
(4) The driver of every vehicle shall, consistent with the requirements of subsection (1), drive at an appropriately reduced speed when:
(a) Approaching and crossing an intersection or railway grade crossing;
(b) Approaching and going around a curve;
(c) Approaching a hill crest;
(d) Traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway; and
(e) Any special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.
(5) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.
(6) No driver of a vehicle shall exceed the posted maximum speed limit in a work zone area.
(7)
A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318.
He's also correct that we are judged on overall activity. Some departments and supervisors like to see a lot of tickets. Even though traffic enforcement and safety is a primary function of the FHP, they are pretty decent about cutting a motorist some slack when it's needed. It's been my obeservation that they are better than most local and county agencies in doing so.
Some supervisors use traffic as a means to show that the officer was awake all shift and actually proactive in his efforts. You'd be surprised what you can find or find out during a traffic stop.
I've cut major speed violators a break before just because I thought they deservedit. I might have been wrong but it's likely that if I was, they'll be back
and I'll be waiting
.
Drink and drive however and we get to partay.....
Hope some of those links serve to help clarify a few points in this matter?
Later,
Gordon
Again, in his defense, right or wrong, we still have the discretion and God Forbid they take that away
As a matter of fact, unless you were on a totally straight portion of the interstate, totally devoid of other traffic, I'd probably have written the citation, vette or no vette. I might have broken it down a bit for you to give you a bit of a break, but I'd have still likely written it.
Stupid here??
azz stole my beloved rocket I never sped over that bridge again. It didn't stop my other foolish driving habits. Now I own a vette and the funny thing is I very rarely speed. Sound Stupid? I don't know . I guess I have had so many close calls driving like a jack azz on my bike that I want to stick around some more and just know that I have the power under my But. I think I have had enough adrenilin shots for a guy who is 41. Never been pulled over in my Vette. I guess maybe I should go a little faster.
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