New fender badges for the C5Z

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by 85vette

Because....? I can only assume those "people" had/have been following your web saga. What would be their purpose for wanting to see you fail? Because you didn't choose them to do your work? (assuming said people were in competition with the ones you chose) Or are they folks that are easily amused by other peoples frustrations? In any event the news must have travelled in automotive circles here for someone to be telling a tech at a dealer not to work on your car. Maybe after reading all the tribulations some decided they did not want to get involved??

1. For fear of further failure

2. Because they were not capable

3. Because you call people out for shoddy work

4. Because Obama is president

5. All of the above

I can't believe that SS is not capable and I haven't seen any examples of shoddy work on their part. Personality clash? What's left?

I hope that wasn't meant as an implication that I thought that SS Performance was involved with trying to discourage Shane from working on my car. Quite the contrary. I don't believe Shane knew them at the time.

Shane didn't mention any names, and nor would I have expected him to.

So as for the "why", heck, you tell me. I don't know what goes through people's minds. I guess people would be unnerved by the fact that I don't pull punches if they do less than acceptable work. So that is MY fault?

But I do know that I did personally talk to Neal Connell of Competition Racing Engines when Shane was working on my drivetrain and Neal just blew me off when I went to him looking for help. Shane was concerned that from the damage seen on the pilot bearing from the over length driveshaft that Pfadt provided, the thrust bearing in the motor might have been damaged. So I wanted to pull the engine and have Neal Connell check that out. This seemed like the best time to do that. He just told me he didn't want to get involved, saying something like "I've been friends with Aaron Scott for forty years", or some such crap. Neal Connell suggested that I send the engine to Katech, which was ridiculous, as I certainly couldn't leave my car tying up a lift at the dealership for several weeks.

So if I had to take a guess, I would have to say that Aaron Scott (and perhaps associates and friends) was the loudest horn blower in Shane's ear. Why? In my opinion because he didn't want anyone else to see his handiwork. ie: The bolts missing out of the bell housing, for starters. And I would also guess that since Aaron Scott had claimed to me when I picked it up from him that my car was "95% finished", he really didn't want anyone else seeing just how far from the truth that really was. Certainly that is all sufficiently documented on this site.

Anyway, this is all in my humble opinion of course. I am just having to interpolate the reasons based on the evidence I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears.

As for SS Performance, I'm really not sure what their problem is, but I suspect it might be partially rooted in a local Tallahassee car forum where the members there were quite caustic to me because my car was being worked on by Chris Harwood at the time. Evidently there was a lot of bad blood there between some of them and Chris, and that apparently spilled over onto me. Just as there was apparently bad blood between Aaron Scott and Chris Harwood, that I believe may have unduly influenced Aaron Scott's attitude about giving my car his best efforts at doing quality work.

In any event, SS Performance chose to burn the bridge between us. I can see no reason why I should ever feel inclined to buy the lumber and make the effort to try to rebuild it. They obviously don't want my business, and I can't see ever needing them for anything.

If you had good results from them, well good for you. I'm glad that you did. Really. I doubt they would still be in business if they treated everyone like they did me. So obviously they had the potential to actually help me, but just chose not to. Again, THEIR choice.

[85vette]

I know from my years in the automotive business as a service writer that few techs want to inherit another's mess. That said, whoever followed what Chris did should have probably just insisted on starting over from the get go. That may have been cost prohibitive, I don't know, but after looking the car over I think that it would be the only manner in which I would care to tackle a job like that.

I think most people that pay for the services that you had done probably don't have the skills or knowledge to do it themselves and just trust that the techs are capable of doing what is asked. Obviously Chris Harwood had salesmanship skills to convince you that he was able to do the work or you wouldn't have chosen him for the job. At the same token most techs realize that few people go as far checking behind them to the extent that you have. At least on the average car. But yours, being a show car basically, I would think whoever worked on it would realize that the whole car would draw far more scrutiny than say, a 2000 Ford Escort. And therefore I would expect a bit more detail would have been spent, regardless of who did the work.

I believe we all should get what we pay for. I don't know what your arrangements were originally but unless it was a low bidder situation I think you have the right to expect a job well done. I don't know Chris Harwood or Aaron Scott but I would think if they had as much experience in this field as they claimed they would be capable of delivering what they promised. If the job was underestimated, shame on them.

Maybe some did not want to get involved because they were afraid of getting called out on this website in the event you found there work to be less than what it should be. You don't mince words and you will call a spade a spade. I'm sure many have followed the saga and made judgment of you due to your unwavering insistence that things be done as YOU would do them yourself. I guess many are willing to settle for mediocre and don't expect any more than that. Sadly, I've come to expect it myself.

No, I didn't mean to imply that SS had anything to do with this. I don't even think they were in business back then, but there is a good chance they individually observed what was going on via word among themselves and/or what has been posted here(and who knows where else). I'm sure there is plenty of gossip in the garages these days, always has been. I guess only they could say why they chose to not to get involved when you approached them. But other than your experience, I've heard nothing but good about them and my actual experience was great. I love their facilities and there's always some cool cars up there to see when I go. My son went with me when I picked my car up last time and he was awed at the place. The shop is a mechanics dream come true. Practically all the vehicles they work on are high performance.

Oh well. I was just wishing you could develop a relationship with those guys. I can not fault them myself. If they snubbed you based on someone else's opinion, well, that's sad. We will probably never know.

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by 85vette

I know from my years in the automotive business as a service writer that few techs want to inherit another's mess. That said, whoever followed what Chris did should have probably just insisted on starting over from the get go. That may have been cost prohibitive, I don't know, but after looking the car over I think that it would be the only manner in which I would care to tackle a job like that.

What, pull the 427 engine out and start from scratch? Not likely. I knew Chris Harwood was lying to me early on but with my car scattered in pieces all over his shop, what choice did I have? The shell of the body was sitting on his lift, and everything else was literally scattered all over his shop. I had to just grit my teeth, pretending that I believed him, and to the world putting that face on too, hoping that he would at least feel that since I was not against him like so many other people that he would get my car at least put back together. I couldn't let on to a soul that I knew what he was doing for fear that it would get back to him and then I'd be in real pickle. Any number of parts for my car, heck even the car itself, could have vanished without a trace and I would have had absolutely no recourse. Hell, he was already lying to someone (me) he was pretending to be a friend to, so what would he have done to my car knowing I knew what he was doing and telling everyone about it? I HAD to play deaf, dumb, and blind around him.

So when I contacted Aaron Scott about taking over, I told him what was going on and my suspicions about the lies and thefts. So Aaron knew what he was facing. I told Aaron to take nothing for granted with the car and presume that everything Chris touched was likely wrong in one respect or another. So Aaron can't claim he was going into this blind. At the time, I was glad that he took it on anyway, but with hindsight, well, not so much. I would have been much better off just having the car towed to my own garage and started then figuring out how to fix it rather than when I brought it back from Aaron's shop. Aaron did do some things I was glad he helped me with on the car, but after a year of it being in his shop and costing me a LOT of money, and what he released to me as being "fixed", well, I certainly do not feel I got my money's worth. I paid nearly as much for the "repairs" while the car was at Aaron Scott's as that original BIG check I wrote out to Chris Harwood.

And no I won't mince words about Aaron Scott. I was severely disappointed with what I saw when I put my car up on my lift after bringing it back from his shop. And the more I looked the more disappointments I found nearly on a daily basis. I THINK I have fixed everything, but nothing would surprise me now.

Originally Posted by 85vette

I think most people that pay for the services that you had done probably don't have the skills or knowledge to do it themselves and just trust that the techs are capable of doing what is asked. Obviously Chris Harwood had salesmanship skills to convince you that he was able to do the work or you wouldn't have chosen him for the job. At the same token most techs realize that few people go as far checking behind them to the extent that you have. At least on the average car. But yours, being a show car basically, I would think whoever worked on it would realize that the whole car would draw far more scrutiny than say, a 2000 Ford Escort. And therefore I would expect a bit more detail would have been spent, regardless of who did the work.

Chris Harwood did a number of small jobs for me on several of my vehicles and honestly he SEEMED very conscientious and competent. Even watching the videos I took of him working on my car, he SEEMED to be competent. There apparently was just no dividing line between reality and a fantasy world with the guy. He would literally say ANYTHING at ANY TIME to get himself out of the jam of the moment he was in.

I actually sent out bid requests to three shops, Harwood's among them when I decided to put the 427 engine in the car. Two got back to me, and one didn't even both with a reply. Of the two replying, one was down in south Florida and told me flat out that they would not guarantee the engine at all. Hell, the engine was the main reason for doing this and they wouldn't stand behind it? Thanks, but NO thanks. So that only left Chris Harwood as a viable choice. So apparently I had NO good choices and still wound up picking the worse of the three.

I felt that Chris Harwood could have installed a pre-made engine to drop into my car and replace the driveline parts. I thought he would be capable of doing that easily. It SEEMED like it SHOULD have been easy. Would I have trusted him to build an engine for me himself? Hell no! I knew he was out of his depth of water there. I thought he was a good parts changer, but that was about it. And I thought he might have trouble with the tuning, but figured he could at least get it partly done and I could take it from there to someone else to finish it up. Chis KNEW I was watching his every move since I was out there nearly on a daily basis. Yet he still convinced himself that he could lie to me and I wouldn't notice. Pretty unbelievable, but obviously the guy's mind is pretty much a mystery to me.

Aaron Scott knew what had transpired and talked the talk that he couldn't walk when the chips were down. I would have much rather he had just told me the truth instead of telling me that he would have no problems driving that car to California like it was when he said it was "done". I would have been severely surprised if the car had made it to even Alabama from what I saw of the mess that was my "95% finished" car. Heck, my hands were cramped from gripping the steering wheel so hard driving the car home from all the darn weird noises coming from it and barely able to pull away from a stoplight without stalling. I was expecting the car to burst into flames at any moment, and when I found the leaking fuel injector, heck, it really WAS a miracle that it didn't happen.

Originally Posted by 85vette

I believe we all should get what we pay for. I don't know what your arrangements were originally but unless it was a low bidder situation I think you have the right to expect a job well done. I don't know Chris Harwood or Aaron Scott but I would think if they had as much experience in this field as they claimed they would be capable of delivering what they promised. If the job was underestimated, shame on them.

My mistakes were that I initially trusted Chris Harwood until I was trapped into just hanging onto the train, hoping it wouldn't crash completely. And I trusted Aaron Scott completely, and didn't realize that trust we misplaced until I brought my car home and inspected what he claimed to have done for myself.

I paid up front with Chris Harwood with the idea being that he would get all the parts needed using my money, so he would have everything there at the shop waiting, and there would be minimal downtime for my car. Hah! Yeah, that plan worked out well.

As for Aaron Scott, I gave him my credit card and told him I was really in no rush, I just wanted the car done RIGHT, which every review I read about him indicated I would get. And we saw how well THAT plan worked out.

Originally Posted by 85vette

Maybe some did not want to get involved because they were afraid of getting called out on this website in the event you found there work to be less than what it should be. You don't mince words and you will call a spade a spade. I'm sure many have followed the saga and made judgment of you due to your unwavering insistence that things be done as YOU would do them yourself. I guess many are willing to settle for mediocre and don't expect any more than that. Sadly, I've come to expect it myself.

Perhaps that is just the way they do things down here. People get screwed all the time and just go on their merry way. Heck, I didn't really catch wind about Chris Harwood until it was WAY too late for me to do anything about it.

As for Aaron Scott, heck, I STILL don't understand why he did what he did to me. I feel like the little kid yelping about the king not having any clothes on. But in my fairy tale, apparently the people want to burn the kid at the stake for pointing this out about the king rather than coming to grips with the FACTS.

Originally Posted by 85vette

No, I didn't mean to imply that SS had anything to do with this. I don't even think they were in business back then, but there is a good chance they individually observed what was going on via word among themselves and/or what has been posted here(and who knows where else). I'm sure there is plenty of gossip in the garages these days, always has been. I guess only they could say why they chose to not to get involved when you approached them. But other than your experience, I've heard nothing but good about them and my actual experience was great. I love their facilities and there's always some cool cars up there to see when I go. My son went with me when I picked my car up last time and he was awed at the place. The shop is a mechanics dream come true. Practically all the vehicles they work on are high performance.

Oh well. I was just wishing you could develop a relationship with those guys. I can not fault them myself. If they snubbed you based on someone else's opinion, well, that's sad. We will probably never know.

Yes, SS Performance was definitely in business then. The drivetrain issue that Shane worked on came up AFTER I had already redone the fuel system, that I originally spoke to Ryan about early on.

Yeah, it would have been a pretty convenient place for me to take my vehicles when I needed help with them. I would have loved to have found someone who I could have counted on to render the quality service I pay for. I've always been willing to pay what I needed to get what I wanted, but dammit, when I pay my money I damned sight EXPECT to get what I paid for.

I probably never would have jumped into my car at the depth I did had SS panned out and helped me, so who's to say whether this was a good thing or not? It just is what it is. They made their decision and I just moved on and did what I had to do without them. Since I will have only my own experience to go on, if they come into a conversation I am taking part in, I will have no choice but to render my own PERSONAL opinion about them. At this point the ONLY person I can recommend from my own experience is Shane Woodyard at the local Tallahassee Chevy dealership. And I'm certainly glad that he had the balls to stand up to the local yokels yammering at him while he was trying to help me out of a jam. Of course, had he listened to them and NOT helped me, I guess right now I would have the experience of pulling out the drivetrain on my car under my belt. I certainly wouldn't have just given up.

[Rich Z]

Anyway, back to the original topic of this thread.......

I put the new fender badges on the car today. Took an hour to do, mostly from taking measurements and cleaning off the old adhesive. The old badges were not exactly positioned correctly, probably because when I put them on I was measuring from the dirt surface the car was parked on at the time. For the record, the bottom of the badges are 24.75 inches from floor level, and the back edges of the badges are 6.25 inches from the back edge of the fender.

I heated the badges with a heat gun and then used dental floss to cut through the old double sided tape to break the badges loose. Then I used GM adhesive remover to clean up the fender surfaces. There was a bit of a raised outline of the old adhesive that I could feel with my finger tip that wouldn't come off with the adhesive remover, so I had to break out some polishing compound to get rid of that and make the surface absolutely smooth. Wiped it down with the adhesive remover again, and then after marking the fender with my measurements, just stuck the new badges in place.







I think they look pretty darn sharp!

Hopefully they won't fall off while driving down the road.....

[zzzona]

I like it...........now we need to see the car hit the street

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by zzzona

I like it...........now we need to see the car hit the street

Been putting a fair number of miles on it. Drove the car out to Mexico Beach and back a couple of weekends ago. Still having a slight idling problem when the car is driven for 45 minutes or more that I'm having trouble figuring out, but beyond that, it's running really well. The car will drop the idle speed down to almost a stall when I am coming up to a stop and depress the clutch. Up to that point, the car drives like stock with the idle being right around 850 rpm or so. I just can't see any changes in the data I am logging that would cause this, as nothing is really changing from driving 15 minutes compared with driving 45 minutes. Incoming air and coolant temps are stable. AFR is stable. Timing is stable. But something is making the idle drop down.

It's not THAT big of a deal, but I'll get it figured out sooner or later.

[Benjamin]

what are those made of?


they look really nice...

[85vette]

Looks good Rich. Is that the original paint? It looks good too. I know you did a lot of buffing a year or so back.

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

what are those made of?


they look really nice...

I don't really know. I think they are stainless steel, but did not actually inquire or check to see.

Thanks.

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by 85vette

Looks good Rich. Is that the original paint? It looks good too. I know you did a lot of buffing a year or so back.

I didn't actually do any wet sanding on any of the side panels, just the hood, roof and deck lid area. When I saw the enormous number of tiny scratches on the deck lid, I just got discouraged and gave up. Maybe Aaron Scott had more than just the few cats I saw there climbing on the cars. Or those few liked jumping on the cars a LOT.

The paint looks better than it did, and had I had less damages to work with, I'm pretty sure I could have done a superb finish with it. But I had to settle for the six foot away version.

And yeah, I made some mistakes, too. But it will do for a while.

Thanks.