Miami to arm police with assault weapons

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by Shadow

Dude,

If you "know" this stuff is happening, report it! You can do so annonymously for God's sake.

Weapons on any school property is illegal in Florida.

The weapons you mention are no illegal unless they meet certain requirement; however, it'd be damned nice to know whose packin' what where?

Besides, if they have felony records, or the weapons are concealed (within certain guidelines) within the car or on the person, that too is illegal.

I'm not picking on you brother, but this is EXACTLY why we have these problems. People who know won't tell Then when somebody gets offed, we wring our phucking hands and go (my best Eeore here) oh, me oh my

Not to mention, and correct me if I am wrong, it is illegal for ANYONE under 18 years old to be packing no matter what the circumstances.

Yeah, I know it's a bitter pill to swallow to turn in your friends, but all it takes is one bad incident to get every gun owner behind the eightball because of their ill conceived actions. If they are so indiscreet that EVERYONE knows they have a gun, then they are really just looking for trouble anyway.

[Guro305]

Originally Posted by Bracket Monster

I live about 5 minutes from miami, i go there everyweekend for races, and i know in this area, since im in highschool i know A LOT of kids with AK-47s and AR-15s and Beretta assault rifles and all kinds of high powered guns like that, many of them keep them in their cars, i know a lot of kids who have pistols on them daily, but since ive gotten into highschool ive seen a big increase of kids with much more powerful and faster guns... all of these kids i know with these guns have extended clips with "armor piercing bullets"... so i can just imagine if kids in highschool have guns like this, what older people in liberty city and carol city and places like that have... so that would b good if police had guns that could be equal or better to the guns that the criminals have.

This is nothing new. This has been going on since I was a kid twenty years ago and yes I am from Carol City/Opa-Locka borned and raised. I'm glad to see regardless of anyone's feelings that MPD is carrying assault rifles. It was the lack of semi-automatic weapons that lead to so much bloodshed in the late '70's and early '80's when the cops carried standard .38 revolvers. Thank the Miami River Cops Case for departments now carrying Glocks.

Hopefully Miami-Dade PD will follow and as I wrote on another post, check the history of the MDPD. They have a history of being proactive rather then reactive. Remember that CENTAC (26) had been reinstated out of the MDPD back in the '80's to combat those "untouchable" criminals. I feel better knowing they have them then not.
If they had them, maybe an officer still dies that day, but instead of four being shot maybe it's only two and we don't have to spend all those manhours searching for the killer. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

Bracket Monster, just to correct you, you could not get from Fort Laud to Miami in 5 minutes via helicopter!!!

[85vette]

Quite an interesting array of responses, and as I expected, much ignorance from the uninformed folks in our forum. Shadow, with his many years of experience, is right on the money. The issuing of assault rifles seems to be a typical "knee jerk" reaction aimed more at easing the public's nerves than being a quick fix for the problem at hand.

And as far as the ammunition we Law Enforcement Officers use, yes, my agency issues every one of us the same hollow point rounds for our Glock .45's and the same hollow point rounds for our M16A1's. The metro/city agencies use frangible ammo. It is NOT our option to choose. My agency has reluctantly conceded the need for assault style rifles over the last five or six years, with only those of us with prior military experience being allowed to carry them at first, and even then we had to supply our own rifles. We eventually were issued military surplus equipment, and practically all of us proudly carry our weapons in the front seat of our cruisers, where, as Shadow alluded to, it would take less than four seconds for a methed up dirtbag to break a window out and have the rifle at the ready. Then your weapon is a serious liablity.

What the general public doesn't seem to get is the fact that we have to follow rules, unlike the bad guys, who have the ACLU on their side, standing up for their rights. And the latest trend is the young punks who are "gangsta wannabes", carrying the heat around with them just waiting for an excuse to use it. It's really getting out of control folks, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

As for the armor piercing ammo, it is a crime to sell it, but it is NOT a crime to possess it, unless you intend to use it in the commision of a crime!? Well what else are you gonna do with it, hunt Elk that are wearing body armor? That's another issue. Law enforcement generally have the lightest armor available, (SWAT/TAC teams excluded) especially here in Florida. Why? Because of the expense and because it's so hot and humid. My vest is made to withstand a hit from a handgun, not a supersonic round from a .223 or a 7.62.Many officers neglect to wear it at all becase it's like wearing a coat in July. Try standing in the sun on hot pavement when it's 98 degrees with 90% humidity and see how long it takes you to come out of it. I've worked traffic crashes for an hour or more in weather like that.

Folks, this problem didn't happen overnight and it's not gonna get fixed overnight. It's time for the lawmakers to do what is needed to win this war on street crime. It's also time for citizens to act responsibly and report illicit activity instead of taking the "not my problem" approach.

[Rich Z]

Originally Posted by 85vette

It's time for the lawmakers to do what is needed to win this war on street crime.

So, what IS needed? I think there are as many opinions on that as there are in any other hot topic...

[Shadow]

Originally Posted by Rich Z

So, what IS needed? I think there are as many opinions on that as there are in any other hot topic...

Thanks 85, and Rich, there are no steadfast answers to this long standing problem

There are opinions, many of which as 85 mentioned are not rooted in fact or experience.

I'm sure Ken could chime in on this as well with all his years in the trenches.

Although again, there are no answers, some things that could be done:

1) Enforce and support the penalties in place. Stop the BS probation and community service nonsense for violent crime. Stop allowing the state to accept a lesser included charge on a plea bargain, for the sake of expediency!!!

2) More officers/detectives assigned to U/C & federal task forces to combat the illegal flow of certain firearms, posession of said firearms by those no authorized, and more gang related investigations.

I hate to say it, but "crime prevention" isn't working

3) Instead of having sworn officers assigned to the damned P.R. unit (Crime prevention), assign Community Service Officers, civillian officers to those functions, speaking engagements and the like and make better use of the sowrn personnel available.

4) Use your reserve/auxilliary officers to saturate certain areas. Hell, this is a ready force of sworn police officers, that cost the tax [ayers little if anything to keep or use. Our (former) agency had us out on special occasions at NO COST to the citizens. Damn it! Use them!

There's a lot of training, experience and expertise in many of those reservist. Many have lengthy backgrounds and left the full time service for other occupations or due for other honorable reasons (or they wouldn't still be sworn).
Use that resource wisely.

5) Training- I hate to sound like a broken record and it's usually the one thing most cops hate, but training, repetitive training on high-risk topics (alarm response, domestic response, traffic stops and the like) will save your ass!!!

6) Finally, learn from the mistakes and misfortunes of others. It's an unfortunate certainty that some of us (yeah, I still say "us.") will loose thier lives in the line of duty

Some due to circumstances beyond thier control, some from mistakes.

Study all those losses of life and never let them die in vain!

Try to learn to minimize the events you can't control, control what you can and not repeat the same mistakes as others.

85 also brings up another good point. Many departments have gone to a more tactical uniform, darker colors and heavier materiel. Add the Florida heat to the uniform, throw in a vest for good measure and, well, as he said, see how long it takes you to get out of it.

Mine stayed in the trunk during most of the hottest months here I knew better, but hey, enough was enough!

Let another officer get shot and everyone's vest came out for a few weeks. Then the novelty wore off, the complacency set in, and back in the trunk

When I became a motor cop- I hardly ever wore it. Most don't. I do recall being so hot on one motor day that things got fuzzy and started moving....uh, they were previously stationary

Had to loosen the straps on the helmet and take a quick breeze out across the Causeway just to cool off.

Whats needed in this regard, is more R&D on tactical clothing and equipment thats user friendly.
Light weight materiels and such that the officers will wear. And unfortunately, as some agencies have had to do, a MANDATE to wear your issued gear, regardless of the heat. We're (LEOS) a hardheaded lot and sometimes have to be hit with a brick twice to get the message across.

Finally back to the weapons, again, training. Tactical deployment and use of said weapons should be mandatory. Having the tools for the job without the knowledge or training to use them, well, I gots me a hammer, but I sure as hell can't build a house!!!

Come to think about it. After my last qualification day, I need to get my arse back to the range......I sucked!