Best way to gain around 100hp and it's cost, or just go Zo6?

[Gannet]

Originally Posted by ynkedad

Awesome

I really appreciate you guys taking the time, to educate me with your responses.

Lots of Awesome ideas and detailed information.

Again, WOW!

Thanks fellas,

~Ray

Think more about where and how you want more power, and what you want your engine to run like. Starting out with "I want what a C6 Z06 has" is fine, and may even be your final answer. But consider the answer that GM came up with for that question: 427 ci. Other parts of their "answer", of course, are that it has to be highly reliable, last 100k+ miles, get good fuel economy, pass emissions, be driveable by your granny, be smooth and quiet, etc. If you answer includes all those same requirements it is highly likely that the right answer is going to be something rather similar to what GM put together. They ain't dumb.

Here ya go: Lingenfelter 427/530, $20k installed, w/36m/36k warranty

If you're willing to compromise some of the things above, or heck, you may even want a racy "rump-rump" idle (for example), then more options open up and it can get a lot cheaper.

In general, there are good reasons the car comes from the factory the way it does. When you change it, you are almost always going to make one or more things worse in order to make one thing better. If you don't care about the "worse" things, cool. If you do, pita. Again as a generalization, the farther you get away from factory spec, the more things get "worse".

More generalizations: there are three basic classes of things you can trade off: driveability, reliability, expense. Avoiding trade-offs in one of those areas will involve more trade-offs in the others.

Sorry I'm so long-winded. I like writing this stuff out, it helps me think it through myself.

[Mekanic]

Mine wont be detailed at all, but it will get you your 100HP in an afternoon, or 300HP in the same time, as well as only costing you about $600.

Nitrous.

Completely safe (when jetted properly to match your fuel system)

Install yourself in a day, or at a shop in a couple hours.

instant HP when you want it, stock when you don't (AKA: Rain)

Removeable in a tiny amount of time for going to the dealer.

And a fraction the price of internal mods, your Z should be able to handle a 150 wet shot without a drop of trouble, you want to be safer, jet for 100HP, or 70, or 55, whatever you want.

And say you're at a track, and the traction is poor that night, take 10 minutes and re-jet down a stage or 2 for more traction...track is hooking like crazy? /Jet up a stage for even more.

IMHO, for quick easy, safe, reliable, and inexpensive HP, Nitrous is still king.

[Rich Z]

Yeah, a lot or people seem to use nitrous, but to be honest, I never even seriously considered it myself. Why? Well I guess it stems mostly from the old days when it was not all that uncommon for someone to blow their engine up with the stuff. Sure things are better and safer now, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Also, I thought the logistics of it all might be a headache. Where do you get bottles filled (especially around Tallahassee)? How long does a bottle last? Where do you store the spare bottles safely and legally? Your power only lasts as long as the bottle has gas in it, so it could be embarrassing if you forgot to fill it after last weekend and have just a puff left when you REALLY want it. How much does nitrous cost? Although the initial expense may be cheap, you now have a recurring bill directly related to how much your right foot tells you to use it. I don't know how much it costs, so maybe this is a negligible concern.

ALL of the other power adders are THERE when you want it and will not run out at embarrassing moments. And realistically, nitrous (in my opinion) is really only worthwhile if you intend to drag race (either on a track or from stoplight to stoplight). It's not really something you can just turn on and then drive all day like that. Or heck, maybe you can. Carry spares in the trunk and just swap them out when one goes dry...

Again, much of my opinion may be based mostly on ignorance, but it just didn't seem to be what I was looking for....... YMMV, of course..

[Mekanic]

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Also, I thought the logistics of it all might be a headache. Where do you get bottles filled (especially around Tallahassee)?

Where I live there is NOTHING, no tracks, no drags, nada....but there are 3 shops that do fills, just gotta look around

Originally Posted by Rich Z

How long does a bottle last?

Going to the drags 2-3 times a month, as well as stop light runs, 1 10# bottle lasted 3 weeks to 1 month.

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Where do you store the spare bottles safely and legally?

Anywhere really, in the trunk, at the house, in a trailer. Although, We've never had extras. When you watch shows like "Pinks" and the like where they're swapping bottles is for 2 reasons.

1: Bottle is frozen, since they jet SO high, and they're hot-lapping, there is no time for the bottle to warm no charging system in car means no bottle heater, replace with warm bottle till other thaws.

2. Bottle is empty. The major drag guys build engines around the nitrous plate, and jet around 300-500 HP. Like drilling a hole in an aresol can, itll be empty faster than a smaller hole.

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Your power only lasts as long as the bottle has gas in it, so it could be embarrassing if you forgot to fill it after last weekend and have just a puff left when you REALLY want it.

Oh that sucks ass. Wouldn't it be embarrasing if you forgot to fill up with gas after the trip and died right as a Honda was revving at you?

Common sence, make sure you fill your bottle!

Originally Posted by Rich Z

How much does nitrous cost? Although the initial expense may be cheap, you now have a recurring bill directly related to how much your right foot tells you to use it. I don't know how much it costs, so maybe this is a negligible concern.

We pay $8 for a 10# fill.

Originally Posted by Rich Z

ALL of the other power adders are THERE when you want it and will not run out at embarrassing moments. And realistically, nitrous (in my opinion) is really only worthwhile if you intend to drag race (either on a track or from stoplight to stoplight). It's not really something you can just turn on and then drive all day like that. Or heck, maybe you can. Carry spares in the trunk and just swap them out when one goes dry...

Again, much of my opinion may be based mostly on ignorance, but it just didn't seem to be what I was looking for....... YMMV, of course..

Its definatley not something you turn on and leave on, its not great for road racing, except in passing...if the track allows it. And its worthless in autocrossing.

But for driving, street and strip, Nitrous is awesome. And again, totally safe.

A good wet system, as well as window switches werent around when people were destroying engines on nitrous. Wet systems inject nitrous AND fuel into the system, drasticly decreasing the chances of dentonation.

Dry systems are now almost as safe as wet, from window switches, and throttle position switches, which only allow nitrous to flow at WOT, when the engine is getting enough fuel to sustain the combustion with the added oxygen that the nitrous pushes in.

Basicly flip the arming switch for the solenoids and mash the gas, no button like we've all seen on FnF movies, when the throttle is at 100%, the nitrous solenoid flows, and power is increased.

Just like your turbo system, you had to have an adequite fuel system to match the new amount of incoming air. too much air+not enough fuel = boom. But your system is designed with the correct size turbines, and boost levels to not out-do the stock fuel system.

The same can be achieved with nitrous. Hell a Cavalier fuel system can hand;e a 35 shot all day with no worries. On a Corvette, you can do 150 with no modification, and 100 or less is totally gentile.

Hope that clears some things up.

Also...this was my longest post in like 5 years lol.

[Rich Z]

Well actually, I for one, appreciate the in depth description of what nitrous is like these days. More detail then I have seen anywhere else..... Heck, my mind can be changed if the facts are appropriately thrown at me.

Doesn't the car have to be tuned specifically for nitrous at WOT? Seems to me the A/F ratio would be screwy if not. But then what happens if you run WOT without the nitrous? Certainly the tune couldn't be the same both ways, now could it?

[Mekanic]

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Well actually, I for one, appreciate the in depth description of what nitrous is like these days. More detail then I have seen anywhere else..... Heck, my mind can be changed if the facts are appropriately thrown at me.

Doesn't the car have to be tuned specifically for nitrous at WOT? Seems to me the A/F ratio would be screwy if not. But then what happens if you run WOT without the nitrous? Certainly the tune couldn't be the same both ways, now could it?

I'm the same way lol.

Car does not have to be tuned for nitrous at WOT. Inherantly, all cars, be it EFI or carb run pig rich at WOT to over compensate for the large amounts of air.

Thats basicly all the jet chips and so on do, is change the fuel map in the upper RPM range to stay closer to 12, most cars go into the 17s on a wideband at WOT.

Basicly when the nitrous enters the manifold the nitrogen and oxygen are seperated, the nitrogen acts to super cool (see sub 150's) the intake charge, and thus create denser, more powerful explosions, while the oxygen mixes and makes the mix burn MUCH hotter.

SO, taking advantage of the stock programming you smooth the AF mixture, lower temp on your intake charge, and effectivly rasise the octane of the fuel by 30+ points.

With the system disabled, it runs just like stock.

Now if you want to go extreme with the nitrous setup, you will need to be tuned for it, as well as larger injectors, and possibly a higher flow pump. So that the fuel map can run in line with the added air nitrous provides, to prevent a lean condition and dentonation.

Thats why propper jetting is so important, with the rich condition present in te stock map, depending on the size of the engine, injectors, and how rich it is, are all determining factors in choosing the right shot to match your stock map.

With all those factors figured in, a corvette can safely handle a 75-100 shot very easily, 150 if you have a nice wideband installed so you can make sure everything stays okay, 200-400 with the mentioned modifications.

The best way to look at nitrous is a chemical form of forced induction, all the same rules apply, a stock corvette can rock all day with 5-6 PSI of boost, but if you want to run 20, some fuel and bottom end mods are in order.

[REDAZ]

Recently I had the pleasure of owning a brand new 06 Z06....for all of 5 days. I had bought it for myself after selling my 05 LMB sweetheart. (Feeling sorry for myself.)
My boss in another country found out and offered me way too much money for it plus shipping. It's gone.
I went straight out and bought an 07 stripped coupe....except for Z51, that is. The sticker was the shortest (and sweetest) I had ever seen.

Now, flamers get ready, for my trype driving...light to light and generally just cruising about looking here and there for other Vettes to wave at....the Z did nothing for me that the 400HP is doing. It was way cool and the ego thing is alive and well. Still the 100 horses missing....is just not missing unless you are out to break some laws or just plain want to find another way to kill yourself.
When I break my coupe in it will be turned into a nasty animal that the Z will need to mod for.
Check out this real nasty sounding DSOM c6 on You Tube. All the video clip is of the car sitting there running in the driveway. This is what I want. The Z is not that much different....sound is a little better but not 30K better.
Only my opinion.....I just drove them both back to back and there aint that much difference in my neighborhood where the LEO's are just waiting. I have yet to use 4th gear anywhere!

[Gannet]

Originally Posted by Rich Z

Well actually, I for one, appreciate the in depth description of what nitrous is like these days. More detail then I have seen anywhere else..... Heck, my mind can be changed if the facts are appropriately thrown at me.

I agree. Good posts.

I had been thinking of maybe adding nitrous down the road, not as my primary mod, but as a booster.

Question: do you drive around with the bottle valve open? Or do you open it up before going out for some fun? Or do you have one of those electric valves?

I had been thinking this way: 450 or so rwhp is pretty easily attainable with a H/C setup and all the bolt-ons. That would be usable on the street, autox, whatever. Then add a 150 shot on top of that for "extreme situations" and that should be enough to give almost anyone a serious run for their money.

I'll never be able to afford to keep up with the big guys in the HP wars, and it wouldn't be practical with a dialy driver in any case. But it seems like 450 +150 is pretty doable for a DD and at a halfway reasonable price.

But I'm like Rich, nitrous still scares me. Too many memories of seeing other guys toast their cars.

[Mekanic]

Uaually you will leave the bottle closed untill you are goinh out for some "fun"

Although the remote bottle openers ROCK for when fun comes and finds you :thumbs:

[ynkedad]

I do believe i'll go the CAI, Catback and exhaust road at first. Making sure I pick the right systems, whereas I don't get the dreaded drone.

I got the HP bug and wanted power NOW!
But, As mentioned by Gannet, I should get used to the additional power as I go. This way I won't hurt anyone or the car.
Although Nitrous seems to be an inexpensive way to go, compared to others, It scares me. (Ignorance will do that to a person).

Wants or Needs:
I want to increase HP without sacraficing TQ or the integrity of the car.
I want the car to sound bad azz when it starts, it's idling, taking off etc.
I'm not really into racing, (but one never knows) especially on public streets.
Just some radical driving, getting on it once in awhile, or trying to impress others at times.
Just the idea of The extra power being there if and when it's needed is comforting.
It sounds like the mods Gannet suggested, are exactly what i'm looking for at this stage of the game.

I don't want the wife pizzed off, because the car is way too loud to enjoy the ride though.

Wife pizzed = me not happy camper
Thanks,

~Ray