• Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.

Fairness of LEO "free passes" to other LEOs or ex-LEOs?

Is it fair that a LEO will allow another LEO a courtesy free pass for violations?

  • I am a LEO or ex-LEO and say YES.

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • I am a LEO or ex-LEO and say NO.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I am NOT a LEO or ex-LEO and say YES.

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • I am NOT a LEO or ex-LEO and say NO.

    Votes: 8 50.0%

  • Total voters
    16

Rich Z

Internet Sanitation Engineer
Staff member
This is part 1 of 2 in a series concerning an issue in the Firearms Forum on this site.

Basically referencing the fact that apparently some LEOs do not believe that it is a problem with fairness that they will turn a blind eye to minor law violations made by other LEOs and ex-LEOs, yet would generally charge a non-LEO for the same crime under the same circumstances. They consider this as a "perk" of the job. My question about this is: IS THIS FAIR AND/OR ETHICAL?
 
I think we have a problem here Rich!:thumbsup:

Is it fair that a LEO will allow another LEO a courtesy free pass for violations?
I am a LEO or ex-LEO and say YES.
I am a LEO or ex-LEO and say NO.
I am NOT a LEO or ex-LEO and say YES.
I am NOT a LEO or ex-LEO and say YES.

I'm just saying,Maybe the word should be "NO"!:shrug01:

:D
 
I've said this before that they're brothers. If you were a LEO and stopped your brother, sister, Mom or Dad would you write them up? I don't think so.

Same scenario but it's your brother and he's intoxicated. Would you take him to jail or home? I would take him to jail to try and get him to realize the seriousness of his actions and possibly get him some help.
 
I think we have a problem here Rich!:thumbsup:

Is it fair that a LEO will allow another LEO a courtesy free pass for violations?
I am a LEO or ex-LEO and say YES.
I am a LEO or ex-LEO and say NO.
I am NOT a LEO or ex-LEO and say YES.
I am NOT a LEO or ex-LEO and say YES.

I'm just saying,Maybe the word should be "NO"!:shrug01:

:D

OOPS! Sorry. Fixed it.... That's what I get for trying to short cut it with cut and paste..... :sillyme:
 
There are no absolutes. The break given to a LEO by other LEO is the same break they have given to NON LEO as well. There is no situation where an officer gives every officer a break and always writes the citizen for the same thing. Discretion is a big part of the job. Some officers off duty get tickets even though they are LEO. Each case is individual.

The perk of the job is one of the only perks. The LEO see the worst, get the wost, and have to deal with the worst while under the public scrutiny of cameras and you tube and cruiser cams and all of the above. The entire time they have to be polite, courteous, and somehow find a way to stay alive and make it home to their families. If the pay goes down (like it has every year for the last 4-5 years) and Gov Scott takes away retirement benefits, then one of the only things the LEO have left is to look out for each other.

The LEO also cut breaks to Fire Fighters, EMS, Doctors, active/or full term retired military, and many other groups. No one is calling foul on that. Lawers handle other lawyer cases pro bono, no foul there. Doctors treat other doctors on the cuff, again no foul. Why the static over LEO? Find something real to worry about. Sometimes the LEO get hit HARDER than the average joe SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE LEO. The "should have known better" clause, while joe blow gets a "well maybe he is sorry and didn't mean it". LEO deal with alot, and if they can cut someone a break, then so be it.


Yes, LEO cutting other LEO a break is fair (because it doesnt stop at only cutting other LEO breaks - citizens get it too). NO ONE (not even sam citizen) wants zero discretion where EVERYONE gets hammered by the law in EVERY single case.



.
 
I can't remember the number of times I was off duty or going home from a 15+ hour day or following a middle of the night call out that I chose to respond to another officer asking for another unit as back up. We have to try to take care of each other. Who else will?
 
I can't remember the number of times I was off duty or going home from a 15+ hour day or following a middle of the night call out that I chose to respond to another officer asking for another unit as back up. We have to try to take care of each other. Who else will?

Exactly Ken:thumbsup:

I was sitting in my drive getting ready to shut her down for the morning, about 3 am and 2 hours past my chift change.

Domestic, shots fired goes out. No other units were available for back up.
Now this was when we didn't have officers on top of officers and your zone was the size of a small city.

Anyway, I lit 'em up' and responded from Odessa to Town & Country...pre-veterans expressway...that was a ride:dancer01:

Upon arrival, I find that this retired militay Jag, has splattered his wifes brains and most of her face and head, over the hallway, living roon and part of a bedroom.
That's not to mention the cieling and floor.

The worse part, was finding out that thier 15 year old son was in the room with dad when he pulled the trigger. Witnessed the whole thing, and took off making 4 minute miles to his friends house almost a mile away:(

Then there was the crazy f**k that held his family hostage (pre-tactical team) for 4 hours....another off duty gig.

And my best friend yelling for help while wrestling with some doped out POS trying to get his weapon.
Again, I'm on the way home and responded to find my buddy fighting for his life, and ammunition all over the ground (he had the presence of minde to dump the cylinder on his revolver).

Finally, just a short time ago, post retirement, I see a Pasco Deputy on a traffid stop, and the driver suddenly take a swing at him.

I (carefully) roll through the stop sign, drive up on the curb onto the grass (business owner was pissed...go figure?:rolleyes:, and jump into the fray (after announcing myself of course. Don't want to end up with a mouth full of ASP:rofl1:

We get this clown cuffed but they won't get in the car. Still resisting the deputy who at this time, has exercised WAAAAYYYYY more control that necessary with this credent!

I walk up and whisper to the "detainee" who was demanding to know who I was (might have had something to do with the armbar? IDK?

"....I'm not from here. You're either going to get into the car on your own, or I'm going to load you into it like luggage...either way, you're gettin' in:D..."

They got in:D.
It's funny how a simple misunderstaning can be corrected with just a little conversation;)

Gave the Deputy my card in case he needed a witness, name didn't appear in his report (as far as I know anyway), a thank you, a hand shake and I was on my way.

As Ken alluded to....there's more, much more, but you get the point....yeah, we look out for one another....it's part of the territory!:thumbsup:
 
Ya do e good Gordon and I hope all of the LEO's that are members here see the overwhelming support they have from us regular guys. :thumbsup:
 
Oh the stories we could tell............................

Exactly Ken:thumbsup:

I was sitting in my drive getting ready to shut her down for the morning, about 3 am and 2 hours past my chift change.

Domestic, shots fired goes out. No other units were available for back up.
Now this was when we didn't have officers on top of officers and your zone was the size of a small city.

Anyway, I lit 'em up' and responded from Odessa to Town & Country...pre-veterans expressway...that was a ride:dancer01:

Upon arrival, I find that this retired militay Jag, has splattered his wifes brains and most of her face and head, over the hallway, living roon and part of a bedroom.
That's not to mention the cieling and floor.

The worse part, was finding out that thier 15 year old son was in the room with dad when he pulled the trigger. Witnessed the whole thing, and took off making 4 minute miles to his friends house almost a mile away:(

Then there was the crazy f**k that held his family hostage (pre-tactical team) for 4 hours....another off duty gig.

And my best friend yelling for help while wrestling with some doped out POS trying to get his weapon.
Again, I'm on the way home and responded to find my buddy fighting for his life, and ammunition all over the ground (he had the presence of minde to dump the cylinder on his revolver).

Finally, just a short time ago, post retirement, I see a Pasco Deputy on a traffid stop, and the driver suddenly take a swing at him.

I (carefully) roll through the stop sign, drive up on the curb onto the grass (business owner was pissed...go figure?:rolleyes:, and jump into the fray (after announcing myself of course. Don't want to end up with a mouth full of ASP:rofl1:

We get this clown cuffed but they won't get in the car. Still resisting the deputy who at this time, has exercised WAAAAYYYYY more control that necessary with this credent!

I walk up and whisper to the "detainee" who was demanding to know who I was (might have had something to do with the armbar? IDK?

"....I'm not from here. You're either going to get into the car on your own, or I'm going to load you into it like luggage...either way, you're gettin' in:D..."

They got in:D.
It's funny how a simple misunderstaning can be corrected with just a little conversation;)

Gave the Deputy my card in case he needed a witness, name didn't appear in his report (as far as I know anyway), a thank you, a hand shake and I was on my way.

As Ken alluded to....there's more, much more, but you get the point....yeah, we look out for one another....it's part of the territory!:thumbsup:
 
There are no absolutes. The break given to a LEO by other LEO is the same break they have given to NON LEO as well. There is no situation where an officer gives every officer a break and always writes the citizen for the same thing. Discretion is a big part of the job. Some officers off duty get tickets even though they are LEO. Each case is individual.





.

I agree. It doesn't bother me if a LEO gives a LEO a break. Even if it's a break I may not receive. But it does depend on the severity of the violation, for me. Case by case. It's a stressful job and I'm grateful they're there. I certainly couldn't do it, so a few perks are OK by me.

I've been given my fair share of breaks over the years. Pulled over 11 times, 6 tickets. I was given a break on 3 speeding tickets that were 20-30 mph over the limit (in the middle of the night). I had one knocked from 15 mph over to "violation of a traffic sign" because I was pleasant and he liked my car. I also had one that was 93 mph in a 45 and he never said a word other than "license and registration" and "sign here". It could've easily been reckless driving.
 
I have a question. Would you guys (LEO's) give the same breaks to someone else in the legal profession? I'm talking judges, lawyers, clerks of the court, process servers, etc.

I think this is a tough question to answer because now we have a 3rd category. LEO (fireman, etc.), civilian and now this (Legal Support). I know for instance that a process server carries ID. If he were speeding and showed you the ID along with his drivers license would that make any difference to you?
 
The problem with that is the list can go on and on with all the people that could be added to it. That is one reason I don't like to write tickets, and my boss doesn't want us issuing a ton of them either. He is very progressive and doesn't want to "tax" the public to cover up debt shortfalls in the budget. HE prefers documented written warnings unless the offense becomes repeat or aggravated. I would say State Attorneys are possible, the defense attorneys no. Medical EMS / ER Room etc deal with alot and get breaks, along with the doctors we may come into contact with while on the table... (smirk)
 
The problem with that is the list can go on and on with all the people that could be added to it. That is one reason I don't like to write tickets, and my boss doesn't want us issuing a ton of them either. He is very progressive and doesn't want to "tax" the public to cover up debt shortfalls in the budget. HE prefers documented written warnings unless the offense becomes repeat or aggravated. I would say State Attorneys are possible, the defense attorneys no. Medical EMS / ER Room etc deal with alot and get breaks, along with the doctors we may come into contact with while on the table... (smirk)

I was going to comment, but thought I'd wait.
Rocket said it well.:thumbsup:

The list is subjective, based upon violation, location, witnesses and the officers personal opinions.

Back when I was "on the job", defense attorneys were like trophies, especially traffic guys:lmao:
Hell, if I could figure out how to legally mount them on the wall.....:lmao::lmao:

Later in life, I've made a living off of them:eek:

As I get older, deal with them longer (now shifting more to the civil side), I'm looking for space on the wall again:rofl1:

Bob, you mentioned process servers.

That's something I do now, and although in the majority of the cases, servers are appointed by either the Chief Judge in the county or the Sheriff, we don't work "for" them.

Actually in most counties except Pinellas, we're thier competition:lmao: (Pinellas stopped serving non-enforceable writs in July last year).

When I'm working, per statute, I carry the same "authority" as a Deputy Sheriff, in that it's illegal to obstruct or oppose me in the performance of my duty.

Do so and you may see jail (we've done this twice this last year, both times in Pinellas County-thier deputies can actually read and abide by the statutes!:thumbsup::thumbsup:)

That said, I have no other "authority" under statute.
The reason I mention this is, there's no "brotherhood" there.
Most process servers have never been LEO's, and there are more than a few of them that have a severe Walter Mitty relationship with reality:nonod:

There's little I can think of in our world, that's so severe, so immediate, that we need to respond like Adam-freakin'-12 to get it done.
Of course, the attorneys seem to think that's not the case, and thier ineptitude in many cases leads to major time crunches, which we/I have to attempt to correct on my end:rolleyes:

Do I drive fast?
Sure, on occasion.
It depends on where and why?

I've had a few situations, in child custody matter, where time really was critical, to get a child intoa safe location, or back where they belong, and such.

And there have been some other situation where what we do is more critical. But by and large, most of it, is just paperwork and whether it gets done today, or tomorrow, it'll be just fine.

If the attorney has allowed something to sit, and is now in a statute related time crunch, yeah, we're going to do what has to be done to get it done!
To pull thier asses out of the fire, but I'm not going to kill myself or someone else over it!

So back to the question.....No, a process server is probably not going to get any "special dispensation" from law enforcement due to the "brotherhood."

They "may" at thier discretion, cut you some slack.
Especially if you can make your case (quickly) as to why it's so critical that you had to drive like a freaking fool to get there:lmao:

The majority I've met in a citizen/officer capacity have been pretty cool.
I've had the occasional douchbag, but you'll find that anywhere:yesnod:

And if you're former LEO, remember.
Although it's NOT ACCEPTED EVERYWHERE, Badge Americard....never leave home without it.:lmao:

You all be careful out there.......
 
Bob, you mentioned process servers.

That's something I do now, and although in the majority of the cases, servers are appointed by either the Chief Judge in the county or the Sheriff, we don't work "for" them.




That said, I have no other "authority" under statute.
The reason I mention this is, there's no "brotherhood" there.
Most process servers have never been LEO's, and there are more than a few of them that have a severe Walter Mitty relationship with reality:nonod:

Geez, small world. I am also a process server and I didn't mean to imply the 'brotherhood' thing, just that we were working in the legal system. I was just curious if I showed my ID Badge along with my drivers license if a typical officer would cut me any additional slack he wouldn't otherwise. My ID would have nothing to do with the offense because it couldn't be justified.

Not sure what you meant about Walter Mitty so I Googled it.:D
 
Geez, small world. I am also a process server and I didn't mean to imply the 'brotherhood' thing, just that we were working in the legal system. I was just curious if I showed my ID Badge along with my drivers license if a typical officer would cut me any additional slack he wouldn't otherwise. My ID would have nothing to do with the offense because it couldn't be justified.

Not sure what you meant about Walter Mitty so I Googled it.:D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Walter_Mitty
There are a lot of those types in this and the PI field:nonod:
They tend to think of themselves as part of the "brotherhood" especially if they happen to be appointed by the Sheriff.
In actuality, an appointment through ther Chief Judge has a little more "Oomph" to it because your authority doesn't necessarily end at the county line;)

We (process servers) are officers of the court during the time we're doing what we do; but, we're not employees of the court nor the Sheriff.

What we do usually has little if anything to do with law "enforcement", and more to to with civil litigation and assisting in the function of the "system" (again, usually civil, but sometimes criminal).

Trying to explain why you were doing 70 in 35 becaue you had a time line to meet, probably isn't going to give you any passage with an officer.

And God forbid, if he/she has ever been on the recieving end of one of our services, you're screwed!:rofl1:

we get a lot of support from LEO's regarding idiots that think we're trespassing and call the police to make us go away:rolleyes::rofl1:
That one usually bites them in the ass:lmao:
And we get support from some agencies when a person attempts to obstruct or oppose us.
And I've had Deputies show up and put people in jail after they've tried (unsuccessfully) to assault me. Most of the LEO's I've met in this capacity, have been top notch:yesnod:

As for a traffic violation though, it's going to be a totally discretionary call, but I'm going to have to go with "I doubt it.":nonod:
 
In actuality, an appointment through ther Chief Judge has a little more "Oomph" to it because your authority doesn't necessarily end at the county line;)

Guess I have Oomph. :D


Trying to explain why you were doing 70 in 35 becaue you had a time line to meet, probably isn't going to give you any passage with an officer.

That's why I said a violation can't be justified.


And God forbid, if he/she has ever been on the recieving end of one of our services, you're screwed!:rofl1:

Usually I'm doing them a favor and trying to save them from being in contempt of court. That's what I tell them. :D


we get a lot of support from LEO's regarding idiots that think we're trespassing and call the police to make us go away:rolleyes:


If they use the word "trespass" to the LEO it's his call. I may have a problem over here. If he says leave, I'll leave but I'll drive straight over to have a conversation with his boss.



"I doubt it.":nonod:

I agree.
 
If they use the word "trespass" to the LEO it's his call. I may have a problem over here. If he says leave, I'll leave but I'll drive straight over to have a conversation with his boss.

We're getting Off Topice here, but to clarify, no, it's really not his call.

You're there lawfully, as an officer of the court.
Any officer with more than an year on the street should realize that and support your being there.

I've ran into one or two situations in 20 years, mostly with City LEO's, simply because they don't have a lot of interaction with process servers or civil law. That's primarily the realm of the Sheriff.

I've even had one tell me, "this is your turf, I don't have the foggiest idea!
What should we do?"

Once I showed him the statutes and did a brief (yes, I can be brief when absolutely necessary), he was on board and we did what had to be done.

I've had them come to the scene, the party to be served would run out and "demand!" that I be arrested for trespassing! At which time the officer says, your are????? or says's you're Mr. "X"?

Of course, knucklehead, thinking he's going to get rid of the process server, quickly ID's himself to the officer:D

Without exception, they've always responded along the lines of "this gentleman has something for you":lmao:, at which time we serve them.

Afterward it usually goes like this:

Officer: You done here?
Me: Yes sir!
Officer: Have a good day:wavey:
Me: You to man! (or ma'am), and stay safe!:thumbsup:

When you're done, you're done.
Hang around and your're tresspassing.
 
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