Corvette Forum Does it Again - Page 3

pewter99 · 04-13-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Rick

I couldn't believe it when Tom told mew the post he made at CF was edited and locked out by none other the pewter99.
I'm a little slow and find it hard to fully understand the full context of all the rules and sub rules pertaining to this and that at CF so could pewter99 explain what rule was broken by MMC5. You posted a link to my locked thread which was in violation of a link to another site. I didn't know Corvettes Anonymous is a threat to CF and therefore a link is not allowed. In MMC5's post there was no links provided and the only thing that was mentioned was a charity and how to contribute food during a fund raiser. So why was it locked and why the reference /link to my locked post. Again, while I may have violated a rule and it was unintentionally, what was the fragrant violation of MMC5's post. I don't think Corvettes Anonymous is planning on taking over CF or anybody else, just help a few who need it.
Anything that I post in this thread is my personal thoughts and not that of Corvettes Anonymous or any members of this association.

in short the link had the same info as the original thread..I don't make the rules. As Gordon said....CF is a business....as is this site. In any business it is in your interest to keep your customers in your store as it were. Just like Target, McDonalds and Starbucks. They all know that Walmart, Burger King and Dunkin Donuts exist but they aren't in the business of promoting them. You know they are out there and you know where to find them. Would you as a business owner promote someone elses business that was in direct competition for the same ad dollars?? I wouldn't....apparently it is OK here and that is Richs decision and apparently he is fine with it. Maybe one day he won't be and if so I would expect him to change the rules to reflect that and if so I hope that all of you respect that decision whether you like it or not. When its your house you can make the rules and as such you would expect your family members to enforce them when you have vistors...kind of like Moderators if you will. If your guests don't want to abide by your rules then they wouldn't be welcome anymore..true??

At any rate enough about that. If you are back on CF and you have a question..PM me. I am sure Rich would rather that discussion take place over there as opposed to here.

Shadow · 04-13-2008, 10:36 AM

Rich and Robert have both made excellent points

As I've said before, and this is not complaining nor a dig at the forum, just a fact...I can't view the corvetteforum threads. I've been banned too

And since I'm not alone in that boat, even among some of our own members, I'd like to as that in the future, if we're to bring things over from there or any other forum, be kind enough to cut and paste at least a portion of the thread so others can view it and make an informed decision. At this point, I'm shooting in the dark. This goes for links to events, sales, fundraisers, etc. You loose a lot of feedback when people can't see what they're talking about. So please, no more links to CF or elsewhere without at least a brief cut & paste or other access to the information!

However, in defense of the moderator, in this case Robert, whatever TOS violation took place, he only took the action that the site owners dictate.

It's not personal, just the way they want things done

And as I said before, it's thier sandbox.

Robert, the only exception I have with your post is we (CorvetteFlorida) are really not a "business."
There are a few sponsors, and maybe even a few pending, but it was designed to be a place where FLORIDA corvette enthusiast can meet, come together, party, exchange information, help each other, cruise, show, race and generally hang out It's a place specific in the internet world for Florida Corvette People

That was Rich's original plan...from the horses mouth

Never designed to nor will it compete with or threaten one of the international forums simply by design.

But as you mentioned, if that ever changes and we're directed to keep others out to protect the value of the site (which I seriously doubt will ever happen), then I'd have to decide at that time which way I wanted to go? If I stayed, I'd do the same as you...lock anything that the administration told me to lock. Thats just the way business is done.

We're likely never going to have the traffic here that CF does simply because we're not aimed at the same demographics.

Our sister forum www.corvetteinternational.com as well as several others out there such as corvetteguru, smokinvettes, digital corvettes, corvettevalley and others however do. If there had been a link to any of those sites (especially the last 4 since that's where a lot of the former members scattered during the exodus), then I could understand it. But a link to this forum? Doesn't make sense. Then again, rules are rules. If the admin says no links...then no links! Period! One doesn't have to necessarily agree with or like the rules, just enforce them

I agree with Rich. All the Corvette community would be better served if we all got along and allowed cross information.

Unfortunately as Robert points out, many of the sites are strictly commercial, profit based sites and that sort of relationship or free cross posting of information could prove counter productive to thier bottom line$$. Can't fault that reasoning from a business perspective.

Rich, this sort of open discussion wouldn't last on the other forum. It simply wouldn't be allowed. Any mention of a moderators actions or policy discontent would be viewed as an attack on the moderator or site and met with a lock, deletion and possibly a ban or time out for the "offending member"

In the past comments have been made here that would have been deemed an "attack" on the moderator/site over there. Fortunately, again as pointed out by Rich, Robert and myself, we're just founded and operated differently

Is this good or bad? Don't know and don't care! It simply is what it is...

Word has a way of spreading. Good news travels. Bad news travels faster

As with any business, if I'm pleased with the service, I return and bring others with me. At the very least, I tell everyone I meet

If I'm unhappy with the service, I simply don't go back and everyone knows why!!

The internet is a huge marketing tool. One that can bring fortune or spell disaster, depending on reviews.

The bottom line is, Rick came "home" to vent

He came back where he felt comfortable and among friends to complain about something that he saw as an injustice elsewhere. Right or wrong, I can't fault him for speaking his mind. I'm just thankful that we have a place that is open and free enough to allow it

Unfortunately, as Rich mentioned, all the dialgoue in the world isn't going to change the way a site is operated. Actions, numbers and $$ promote change. The rest is

Finally, I don't mind having a little fun with other forums issues, but I don't want to see us become the catalyst for a forum (any forum) bashing party!:nonod:

It's uncool, it's unprofessional and it's counter productive for everyone.

Vent, then let it go. Or as Jimmy Buffett say's:...breathe in, breathe out,...move on....

Later guys

C5Rick · 04-14-2008, 07:16 PM

I was just looking at a post on CF and wow, some of that advertising that comes on the first post had an ad for Corvette Florida

Wonder if it will get locked

pewter99 · 04-15-2008, 10:03 AM

Gordon I am glad to see we do agree on some things...

I guess in my view CorvetteFlorida is a business no matter how you slice it IMO as there is revenue generated to keep the site up and running. If it was solely paid for by Rich as it was in the beginning I would say no. Is Rich profiting from it?? I don't know and I don't care..I honestly hope he gets something from it after all dealing with all the issues involved in running a website I would hope he at least covers his expenses and maybe has enough for a few mods

As they say nothing is FREE...not that Rich isn't a great guy but as much as I like alot of folks I ain't treating you all to dinner every day

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Rick

I was just looking at a post on CF and wow, some of that advertising that comes on the first post had an ad for Corvette Florida

Wonder if it will get locked

The ads are content sensitive and placed by Google....the rules don't apply to Google

as for "venting" over there if it is constructive and not the same old bitching its not an issue....just like here. I am pretty sure if you came on and said you were sick of something on this site all the time this and that I am sure it wouldn't last long. I don't care where you are on the net....bitching without offering a solution or asking why something "is" doesn't help anyone.

pewter99 · 04-15-2008, 10:09 AM

BTW....my last reply to this topic....really want to respect Rich and his board.

Shadow · 04-15-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pewter99

Gordon I am glad to see we do agree on some things...

I guess in my view CorvetteFlorida is a business no matter how you slice it IMO as there is revenue generated to keep the site up and running. If it was solely paid for by Rich as it was in the beginning I would say no. Is Rich profiting from it?? I don't know and I don't care..I honestly hope he gets something from it after all dealing with all the issues involved in running a website I would hope he at least covers his expenses and maybe has enough for a few mods

As they say nothing is FREE...not that Rich isn't a great guy but as much as I like alot of folks I ain't treating you all to dinner every day

The ads are content sensitive and placed by Google....the rules don't apply to Google

as for "venting" over there if it is constructive and not the same old bitching its not an issue....just like here. I am pretty sure if you came on and said you were sick of something on this site all the time this and that I am sure it wouldn't last long. I don't care where you are on the net....bitching without offering a solution or asking why something "is" doesn't help anyone.

Agree:
Robert, we've agreed on a lot over the years. This just happens to be a posotion where we're going to have to agree to disagree and move on.

Business:
You might be able to stretch this to read that CorvetteFlorida is a business, but it wasn't designed as one and really doesn't function as one.

As I mentioned before, and from the horses mouth, the site was designed to give FLORIDA CORVETTE OWNERS a place to meet and discuss things and a chance to better interact than offered by international forums.

It was never designed to compete with them.

Personally, I hope he makes $$ at it as well before one of those snakes eats him or something

Ads:
Google sensitive or not, it still gives the appearance of "don't do as I do, do as I say do"

That just doesn't sit well with some folks. However, once again, it's thier sandbox and they own the shovels.

Venting:

Nope, thats where you're wrong

"Venting " is why we have Ray's Ranting Room

You hardly if ever see anything locked, deleted or closed here

That is generally reserved for porn, spam and personal attacks. AND we generally speaking, do not edit anyones post!

Followup:
The facts speak for themselves and don't need me to support them. I can, but it's not needed.

Face it, in recent months, many, many people have been banned and placed in "moderation" (aka: "timeout"

) for as little as saying someone went "elsewhere" without naming a specific site.

Bannings have taken place without warning, and with no explanation to the alleged "violator."

It's the same old rhetoric: hostility or complaing about IB, the mods or admins??? Yet in many cases, they can't support the violation.

"went somewhere else" isn't a "bash" on IB or anyone else. Just a fact and statement. When no links are provided, no names are given, and no mention of IB is made, where's the violation?

But it happened, recently

Even a criminal has a right to face thier accused, be provided with a list of charges, and ultimately attempt to defend themselves.

Unfortunately, either the ownership has gotten so paranoid or the administration has become so thin skinned that any remote mention of another site (God forbid) results in sanctions

Venting isn't really tolerated all that well there.

Finally, I'm not bashing the forum. Consider it constructive critisizm

It's still a relatively decent place for some information and entertainment. But since you mentioned it, I thought I'd set the record straight.

And I'm still available if you ever decide you want to talk.

I respect Rich and the site as well, but that''s what this section is for.

Take care.

**Rich Z** · 04-15-2008, 01:00 PM

As a general comment, banning is pretty much a useless step to take for a message board system. It's so easy to bypass that it isn't even funny.

So from an admin's standpoint, what does banning really accomplish?

It pisses that person off
It pisses the FRIENDS of that person off
That person likely makes a new website his or her home
That person's friends make a new website their home
That person and friends can STILL come to your site, but in passive mode, not participating nor CONTRIBUTING to the site
Some will re-register on the site for no other reason than to just flaunt the fact that they can, adding to the workload of the moderators.
Those moderators tasked with enforcing unenforceable rules get frustrated and burned out, as well as make some enemies in their chosen hobby and source of their enjoyment.
Eventually you lose your moderators, who probably go where those other members went, if they will still accept them.
Eventually, the policies of the site take on the appearance of "the beatings will continue until morale improves around here".

Banning is something that has to be done in only the most extreme cases. It should never be used as a display of "power" or control, or as an expression of spite or anger. Banning can only done without reflecting poorly on the person doing the banning when it is way past being due and all the other members are basically DEMANDING that it be done.

IMHO...... (as one who has been there and done that

)