• Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.

Fighting a Ticket Could Cost You Big if You Lose!

floridaZ

New member
Indiana: City Threatens $2500 Fines for Challenging Traffic Tickets
Lawyer sues traffic and parking courts in Indianapolis, Indiana over threatened $2500 penalty for contesting a ticket in court.

Mororists who receive minor parking or traffic tickets in Indianapolis, Indiana are being threatened with fines of up to $2500 if they attempt to take the ticket to court. A local attorney with the firm Roberts and Bishop was so outraged by what he saw in Marion County traffic court that he filed a class action suit yesterday seeking to have the practice banned as unconstitutional.

"The deck is stacked against the motorist," lawyer Paul K. Ogden wrote. "To penalize that person for seeking justice seems wrong. I know it is done for the purpose of discouraging baseless challenges to tickets and clogging the docket, but in the process you are also penalizing people who have a legitimate defense and want a chance to present it to the court."

The city made explicit the threat of additional fines for challenging parking tickets in a November 30 press release announcing a deal between Indianapolis and a private firm, T2 Systems, to hand over operations of a parking ticket court to increase municipal income.

"Using Six Sigma process improvement strategies, it is estimated that under this program the city may collect an additional $352,000 to $520,000 in parking citation revenue over the next 12 months," the city press release stated. "If citations are not paid prior to their scheduled hearing, the city may request a fine of up to $2500 per citation. Upon receiving a judgment for an unpaid citation, individuals responsible could be subject to collections actions or having their vehicle registration suspended."

In traffic court, Judge William Young has been making good on the threats by routinely siding with police officers in disputes and imposing fines of up to $500 on anyone who challenges a moving violation ticket, no matter how minor, and loses. Those who pay without going to court do not face this extra fine.

"Unfortunately what you have happen a lot of times is that judges aren't particularly worried about whether what they're doing may be violating the law as the odds of someone ever appealing a $400 traffic ticket is remote," Ogden wrote. "I see it all the time. Trial judges flouting the law knowing they are unlikely to ever be challenged on an appeal because the litigants can't afford it."

Ogden is specifically representing three motorists affected by court policies. Toshinao Ishii received a ticket for driving 63 MPH in a 55 zone in February. Had he paid the ticket without challenge, the fine would have been $150. After Judge Young sided with the police officer in court, Ishii was fined $550. Motorist Matthew Stone was told by his doctors not to wear a seatbelt over his chest as it could damage his cardiac pacemaker. He received a $25 ticket for wearing his seatbelt "improperly." After reading that he would face a $500 fine, Stone gave up his intention of challenging the citation. Adam Lenkowsky, who did not receive a ticket, attempted to attend a traffic court proceeding on September 23, 2009. He was barred from the court, despite the state constitutional requirement that court proceedings be open.

Ogden argues the court's practices in the first two cases violate the excessive fines clause of the state constitution as well as the clause requiring that "all penalties shall be proportioned to the nature of the offense."

:toetap05:
 
I believe that whenever it was that law enforcement became more a revenue collection activity for the state, rather then TRULY interested in corrective actions for the wrong doings of those people violating statutes, this became the beginning of the accelerating slide towards distrust and loss of respect for the general population for much of law enforcement personnel. People aren't fooled by the rhetoric about the purpose of law enforcement any longer. It's all about collecting money by force, and the laws amended to make the net capable of catching more and more fish with every throw. So when you stop looking up to the people you thought were entrusted with public safety, well just who can you look up to?

Then when you throw forfeiture into the pot and see personal property being targeted (profiled) because of the profits they could garner on the auction block, well, sorry, but how can you respect agencies who engage in that sort of practice?
 
Indiana: City Threatens $2500 Fines for Challenging Traffic Tickets
Lawyer sues traffic and parking courts in Indianapolis, Indiana over threatened $2500 penalty for contesting a ticket in court.

The city made explicit the threat of additional fines for challenging parking tickets in a November 30 press release announcing a deal between Indianapolis and a private firm, T2 Systems, to hand over operations of a parking ticket court to increase municipal income.

"Using Six Sigma process improvement strategies, it is estimated that under this program the city may collect an additional $352,000 to $520,000 in parking citation revenue over the next 12 months," the city press release stated.

There's your answer right there:( It's all about the $$$

"Unfortunately what you have happen a lot of times is that judges aren't particularly worried about whether what they're doing may be violating the law as the odds of someone ever appealing a $400 traffic ticket is remote," Ogden wrote. "I see it all the time. Trial judges flouting the law knowing they are unlikely to ever be challenged on an appeal because the litigants can't afford it."

This is where it needs to stop. I frankly hope the attorney WINS his class action suit and bankrupts the city! (it won't happen but one can dream:)) This would set not only a precedent, but send a message to other like minded morons on the bench who have obviously outgrown thier trousers:thumbsdown:
I'd tie these feckers up with appeals so long they'd never be able to get out of the backlog!:lmao:


Ogden is specifically representing three motorists affected by court policies. Toshinao Ishii received a ticket for driving 63 MPH in a 55 zone in February. Had he paid the ticket without challenge, the fine would have been $150. After Judge Young sided with the police officer in court, Ishii was fined $550. Motorist Matthew Stone was told by his doctors not to wear a seatbelt over his chest as it could damage his cardiac pacemaker. He received a $25 ticket for wearing his seatbelt "improperly." After reading that he would face a $500 fine, Stone gave up his intention of challenging the citation. Adam Lenkowsky, who did not receive a ticket, attempted to attend a traffic court proceeding on September 23, 2009. He was barred from the court, despite the state constitutional requirement that court proceedings be open.

The sheer ARROGANCE of our judiciary these days is disgusting!

Ogden argues the court's practices in the first two cases violate the excessive fines clause of the state constitution as well as the clause requiring that "all penalties shall be proportioned to the nature of the offense."
:toetap05:

I believe that whenever it was that law enforcement became more a revenue collection activity for the state, rather then TRULY interested in corrective actions for the wrong doings of those people violating statutes, this became the beginning of the accelerating slide towards distrust and loss of respect for the general population for much of law enforcement personnel. People aren't fooled by the rhetoric about the purpose of law enforcement any longer. It's all about collecting money by force, and the laws amended to make the net capable of catching more and more fish with every throw. So when you stop looking up to the people you thought were entrusted with public safety, well just who can you look up to?

Then when you throw forfeiture into the pot and see personal property being targeted (profiled) because of the profits they could garner on the auction block, well, sorry, but how can you respect agencies who engage in that sort of practice?

Get ready...since local and state agencies (not just law enforcement) can not or will not, seem to live within a budget like the rest of us, they're using the courts and the legislature, to raise fines and costs to make up the difference.

And whenever given the opportunity to do so, administrators are using "scare tactics" relating to "budget cuts" to support crappy service!

I recently called the Hillsborough County Clerk of Court. On thier recording, the FIRST COMMENT you hear is that idiot Pat Frank (identifying herself)
plainly state that "I apologize for any inconvenience, but due to budget cuts and a reduced staff, your wait time may be longer than normal...:rolleyes:"

Hell, it sucked to begin with...way before the "budget cuts!"

So blame your sh**ty Service on the "budget cuts" (God knows, we can't help the taxpayers during hard times and God forbid a county employee might actually ahve to do something!)

And although she said she did not give "bonuses" last year, she did promote several people to mid level management positions that previously did not exist (per one of the clerks I know personally).

This is only going to get worse before it gets better unless we and people like this attorney, get proactive and start doing something about it!
 
This is in utter violation of the principles of due process and one of the major reasons cited by historians (not the "more popular ones") on why the colonies decided to severe their ties with the British (often citing laws from the homeland that were in stark contrast to their autonomous charters of their commonwealths under the crown and guaranteed rights for residents). I cannot believe our local governments have stooped to this level.
 
Another reason Indiana sucks I guess. I can't see them keeping that fee up and running after this. If they do... it will be quite a scary thing indeed.
 
Get ready...since local and state agencies (not just law enforcement) can not or will not, seem to live within a budget like the rest of us, they're using the courts and the legislature, to raise fines and costs to make up the difference.

This is only going to get worse before it gets better unless we and people like this attorney, get proactive and start doing something about it!

You said it. If you saw my property tax bills, yes that is mulitple, you would not believe. I am underwater yet because politicians love to spend other peoples money without any accountability, my property values INCREASED (WTF???) in 2009 and the millage rate went up by 10% to keep their REVENUE like the economy was still expanding at 5%. On top of this because I lost my job in 2008 and had to relocate outside the county where my properties are located in 2009 I did not receive my assesment notice even though I filed a change of address with the clerk of the court. Who can say they ever filed a change of address with the COC. Yes being a responsible citizend meant the it was important enought for me to pay my taxes that I filed with the clerk and the postmaster. I did not receive my assement notices until after the deadline for contest :banghead::banghead::banghead:

I wish liberty poles were still a form of due procees. :reddevil:


Wow that was one hell of a rant for 100
 
You said it. If you saw my property tax bills, yes that is mulitple, you would not believe. I am underwater yet because politicians love to spend other peoples money without any accountability, my property values INCREASED (WTF???) in 2009 and the millage rate went up by 10% to keep their REVENUE like the economy was still expanding at 5%. On top of this because I lost my job in 2008 and had to relocate outside the county where my properties are located in 2009 I did not receive my assesment notice even though I filed a change of address with the clerk of the court. Who can say they ever filed a change of address with the COC. Yes being a responsible citizend meant the it was important enought for me to pay my taxes that I filed with the clerk and the postmaster. I did not receive my assement notices until after the deadline for contest :banghead::banghead::banghead:

I wish liberty poles were still a form of due procees. :reddevil:


Wow that was one hell of a rant for 100

:dancer01:Congrats on hitting the century mark:thumbsup::dancer01:

As for the taxes, I couldn't agree more.

I'm tired of hearing all the "due to the budget cuts" BS!:thumbsdown:

City, county and state leaders need to learn to live within a budget!

Don't tell me why you can't you incompetent buffon. You're an administrator. Make it happen!

Next election, I don't give a damned whose running. If they're in office now, as far as I'm concerned, they're back on the block!!:mad:
 
Next election, I don't give a damned whose running. If they're in office now, as far as I'm concerned, they're back on the block!!:mad:

That actually would make a pretty good shock wave in all political circles.

CAN THE INCUMBANTS!!
 
That actually would make a pretty good shock wave in all political circles.

CAN THE INCUMBANTS!!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

It could bite us in the arse too but at this point, I think I'm willing to take that chance:yesnod:
 
Unfortunately they are all the same horse with different stripes. It doesn't matter who is in office they all follow the same play book. How much can the lobbyist put in their pockets without any accountablility. ALL Politicians have an unending appetite for revenue. On top of that they have absolutely no idea that they also hold a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. THE TAXPAYER.

Shadow I am with you man if I ran my business like governments ran budgets I would be sleeping under a bridge.

I doubt many politicians know what fiduciary means. Bozos :crazy03:

The great thing about our democratic system is that we have one choice more than communists. [/I] Author Unknown
 
Unfortunately they are all the same horse with different stripes. It doesn't matter who is in office they all follow the same play book. How much can the lobbyist put in their pockets without any accountablility. ALL Politicians have an unending appetite for revenue. On top of that they have absolutely no idea that they also hold a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. THE TAXPAYER.

Shadow I am with you man if I ran my business like governments ran budgets I would be sleeping under a bridge.

I doubt many politicians know what fiduciary means. Bozos :crazy03:

The great thing about our democratic system is that we have one choice more than communists. [/I] Author Unknown

I hear ya brother! I get so tired of hearing them whine and cry about thier "budgets.":rolleyes: Deal with it!

If we started tossing a$$e$ out when they did stupid chit, it might not be too long before they realized we were serious and started getting serious about thier positions...then again...maybe not:(
 
I hear ya brother! I get so tired of hearing them whine and cry about thier "budgets.":rolleyes: Deal with it!

If we started tossing a$$e$ out when they did stupid chit, it might not be too long before they realized we were serious and started getting serious about thier positions...then again...maybe not:(

Well, the main problem I see with this is that it appears that "they" also control the choices we have at the ballot box. As long as they retain their grip on that process, then it really doesn't matter who we *vote* into office at all. Yeah, I know the secret ballot sounds all warm and fuzzy like it is for out own protection, but in reality, just WHO does it actually help? Can you say positively 100 percent certain that YOUR vote was counted for who you actually wanted it to count for? How can you verify that?
 
The great thing about our democratic system is that we have one choice more than communists. Author Unknown

Actually we AREN'T a Democracy at all. Or not supposed to be. Our form of government is a Constitutional Republic. In other words laws are not made based on a simple majority and basically limited ONLY by what that majority wants, but are instead constrained by the limitations imposed by the powers GRANTED to the government itemized by the US Constitution.

Do you want to know what TRUE Democracy really is? It's two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Which sounds like a fine idea unless you are that sheep. Which you WILL be sometimes.
 
Well, the main problem I see with this is that it appears that "they" also control the choices we have at the ballot box. As long as they retain their grip on that process, then it really doesn't matter who we *vote* into office at all. Yeah, I know the secret ballot sounds all warm and fuzzy like it is for out own protection, but in reality, just WHO does it actually help? Can you say positively 100 percent certain that YOUR vote was counted for who you actually wanted it to count for? How can you verify that?

In our society, at least in Florida, I can say with resonable certainty, yes to the last part of your post.

100%? No. But the same can be said for the implication. There's no way to be 100% cetain on either side of the arguement.

There are a lot of "eyes" watching these ballots and the voting procedure.

Can the electronic machines be "rigged?"
I'm sure they can, but I'm not convinced (again, at least not in Florida) that this is the case.

Can the ballot boxes be "stuffed?" Again, yes they could, but it would take a coordinated effort among many to make that happen. Most are not willing to become co-conspirators in voter fraud;)
 
In an electronic system, who audits the programming code? Who has access to the actual data? How can I determine that my vote was actually counted for the person I voted for?
 
Can the ballot boxes be "stuffed?" Again, yes they could, but it would take a coordinated effort among many to make that happen. Most are not willing to become co-conspirators in voter fraud;)

No way, not ACORN, they would never do such a thing, not even the several hundred people arrested for same while employed as ACORN with PROVEN false applications such as Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, John Doe and countless other false names as voters (not to mention babies registered to vote also).

Add in the bully tactics employed in such areas as the well publicized Black Panther group with weapons outside the Philly ballot location and there would never be a case for voter fraud/bully tactics.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94b78rnWMP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzBVxP5wzCY

One of the best clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAuMRXCZ5zc

Link mentioned in the above clip:

http://www.electionjournal.org/

Just my .02 cents (off my soap box now)
 
No way, not ACORN, they would never do such a thing, not even the several hundred people arrested for same while employed as ACORN with PROVEN false applications such as Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, John Doe and countless other false names as voters (not to mention babies registered to vote also).

Add in the bully tactics employed in such areas as the well publicized Black Panther group with weapons outside the Philly ballot location and there would never be a case for voter fraud/bully tactics.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94b78rnWMP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzBVxP5wzCY

One of the best clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAuMRXCZ5zc

Link mentioned in the above clip:

http://www.electionjournal.org/

Just my .02 cents (off my soap box now)


...Notice where all that took place?

Didn't see Florida or the Southern States, anywhere in there;):thumbsup:
 
In our society, at least in Florida, I can say with resonable certainty, yes to the last part of your post.

100%? No. But the same can be said for the implication. There's no way to be 100% cetain on either side of the arguement.

There are a lot of "eyes" watching these ballots and the voting procedure.

Can the electronic machines be "rigged?"
I'm sure they can, but I'm not convinced (again, at least not in Florida) that this is the case.

Can the ballot boxes be "stuffed?" Again, yes they could, but it would take a coordinated effort among many to make that happen. Most are not willing to become co-conspirators in voter fraud;)

You have to take the entire post into account;)
 
Just because the news didn't catch it on film doesn't mean it doesn't happen here too. Now you are moving into the realm that the defense lawyers want you to be in. For all your years of police waork how many times have you heard a defense lawyer say "Where's the video"" or " Why don't you have an in car camera installed officer?" to incinuate that the police are lying because it's not on film. The same idea applies here. It has been captured on film, and the ACORN people are in all 50 states (or all 53 States if you listen to Mr O in his speeches).
 
Just because the news didn't catch it on film doesn't mean it doesn't happen here too. Now you are moving into the realm that the defense lawyers want you to be in. For all your years of police waork how many times have you heard a defense lawyer say "Where's the video"" or " Why don't you have an in car camera installed officer?" to incinuate that the police are lying because it's not on film. The same idea applies here. It has been captured on film, and the ACORN people are in all 50 states (or all 53 States if you listen to Mr O in his speeches).

I see where you're coming from, but from my POV you're making an invalid assumption about my position.

I'm not saying they're not here. I'm also not saying it "doesn't" happen here.

What i said and am saying is, the Northern states seem to be more rife with "that sort" of political corruption than the south. we're still more of the "good olo' boy-lemme see what i can do for you (and myself) with my position. Acorn doesn't "fit" as well down here as it does up there.

As far as the in car video goes, if it was available we had it available for them:thumbsup:

Our/my answer was always the same. If the unit was so equipped then it's in evidence. If not then we simply stated the fact that not every car has (at that time) permanently installed in car video equipment. But if it was installed, it was on;)

If it wasn't then even the other officers had doubts about the officers credibility:(

BTW-Hang around attorneys long enough you''ll learn that it's fairly easy to make an arse of an attorney at deposition or trial.

Actually, they do most of the work and all you have to do is "clean up":lmao:
 
Back
Top