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Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.
Kenne Bell?
- Thread starter Rich Z
- Start date
Yeah, I don't know what I have this stupid idea floating around inside my head to even think about forced induction. It must be some sort of Corvette virus I caught when I bought mine. One one hand I feel like I won't be completely whole until I get something like that, but on the other hand, I feel like if I do, afterwards I will kicking myself in the behind (or perhaps it will be my wife doing that) for doing such a dumb thing. The Z is already much faster then I will ever need or want it to go. I have no desire to show off to people how I can burn the rear tires down to air at one launch. I don't care who else can beat me in a race.
So WHY do I want one? I could certainly scrape up the money to get it, but do I then go into an eternity of constantly upgrading the latest weak link in the chain that shows up? I talked at length with a guy who spent BIG bucks getting his Porsche up to over 800 ponies and the crap he had to go through (reinforced driver's seat, for instance, because he was afraid that the acceleration was going to rip the seat out of the floor when it threw him backwards at launch) just made me shake my head. With the all wheel drive that car had, he claimed 0 to 60 in under 3 seconds.
He said it was actually dangerous in traffic because the lightest touch on the go pedal could put you into someone's trunk before you knew it.
But there is a definitely breakdown between logic and emotions at play here and I just cannot figure out exactly what the heck it is that has me so damned google eyed over these things. :shrug01: Is THIS that mid life crisis everyone talks about?
So WHY do I want one? I could certainly scrape up the money to get it, but do I then go into an eternity of constantly upgrading the latest weak link in the chain that shows up? I talked at length with a guy who spent BIG bucks getting his Porsche up to over 800 ponies and the crap he had to go through (reinforced driver's seat, for instance, because he was afraid that the acceleration was going to rip the seat out of the floor when it threw him backwards at launch) just made me shake my head. With the all wheel drive that car had, he claimed 0 to 60 in under 3 seconds.
He said it was actually dangerous in traffic because the lightest touch on the go pedal could put you into someone's trunk before you knew it.But there is a definitely breakdown between logic and emotions at play here and I just cannot figure out exactly what the heck it is that has me so damned google eyed over these things. :shrug01: Is THIS that mid life crisis everyone talks about?
Mark Dalton
New member
Who knows.:shrug01: It could be ego, bragging rights, appearance, brain damage, etc. One thing is sure though. When the mod bug bites, you better have deeeep pockets. Because it's not a question of if something will break but when.
pewter99 said:I love my Maggie and would do it again in a second
Heck, I LOVE the looks of a Maggie, but having to get a new hood and have it painted adds a good $800 to $1K on top of the price right then and there. Same thing with the Kenne Bell, of course. Sigh.... :shrug01:
MADN3SS
New member
Rich, check out these pics of a Kenne Bell install. Go to post #18 for the pics.
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98829
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98829
Anti Venom
Wrencher
We had a chance to do a Kenne-bell, but the kit was'nt ready yet so the customer opted for the STS instead. It made Vette magazine. Have'nt done a Mag in quite some time as the STS has been the hottest thing going lately. The Ford guys have been changing their Eaton units out for Kenne-bell units for a while.....the Mag uses an Eaton, So.....maybe the Kenne-bell is better. We may not know for quite some time. Personally, after driving many different superchargers and different turbos, I will always prefer the turbo cars. I get tired of changing belts on prochargers anyway and I know Tom got really tired of it.
What is it about the STS that makes you put it at top of your list? I thought I saw that the air cleaners are tucked up under the rear bumpers. Is that right?
And I thought I also heard that this was the most expensive of the FI options, is that true?
And I thought I also heard that this was the most expensive of the FI options, is that true?
Anti Venom
Wrencher
Yes, the air filters are in the rear bumper. These are at the top of my list because after trying many other combinations, we found this to be an awesome setup with few drawbacks, after doing a few in house revisions, it became virtually flawless. Just think......you want more boost?.....turn a knob and the boost is raised. For your other question.....this will piss a few people off.....It is more expensive than a blower. A Corvette is more expensive than a Camaro......but what did everyone here buy? Why? Because it is better? The most expensive way is what Tom did, buy a blower, drive it for a while, then change to an STS kit. He did'nt do this as a fad thing. He got tired of the blower. Many reasons there. He is much happier with turbocharging. I am not saying to not buy a supercharger here, I still like them too. I am just saying that if it were my car there is no way that I would pick a blower over a turbo. I have driven them both.Rich Z said:
Well I agree to an extent. But if money were no object, maybe we would all have Lamborghinis or Maseratis instead of Corvettes.
So the cost/performance ratio is always going to be a consideration for us without unlimited funds.
I am familiar with the differences in how each works, and certainly some will like one over the other depending on their own personal preferences. So what, in your opinion, makes the STS system head and shoulders over what a supercharger can provide for you? Since you have driven both, obviously your opinion would carry a LOT of weight in my opinion.
And this also is why I am asking about the Kenne Bell, because it appears to be a step above over the Maggie, and perhaps the ProCharger units as well. So this is a new hat thrown into the ring that needs to be considered.
Thanks.
So the cost/performance ratio is always going to be a consideration for us without unlimited funds.
I am familiar with the differences in how each works, and certainly some will like one over the other depending on their own personal preferences. So what, in your opinion, makes the STS system head and shoulders over what a supercharger can provide for you? Since you have driven both, obviously your opinion would carry a LOT of weight in my opinion.
And this also is why I am asking about the Kenne Bell, because it appears to be a step above over the Maggie, and perhaps the ProCharger units as well. So this is a new hat thrown into the ring that needs to be considered.
Thanks.
Anti Venom
Wrencher
Well, Rich I think that you gort my point. I compared Corvette money to Camaro money. Same engine/ similar performance. Different cost. And you know where the differences lie. As far as cost between STS and most blowers, I feel that the cost difference is not very large. I always like the Procharger way over a mag unit. It is very hard to describe the feeling that the turbo gives over the supercharger. It is much more linear and the boost comes on stronger. The turbo by nature, is actually required to dump exhaust pressure in order not to boost too much. Until that level is reached the turbo will work really hard. An 8lb system will run just like a 15lb system at lower rpms all parts being equal. When the 8lb point is reached, the wastegate will open venting exhaust pressure no longer allowing more than 8 lbs of boost. On a supercharger this is all done with pulley size. Different pulleys will act differently at all rpms. If at some point you become bored with your current boost level, you must change the pulley and belt on S/C but with turbo, you can use a boost controller from the driver's seat. change back and forth at any time. Of course, you could become your own worst enemy wanting more boost than your engine can handle. Yes, in a beauty contest the Mag or Kenne bell will always win, but form should follow function. There are also savings in the turbo that most people forget about. For the STS, you do not require headers! In fact, you will lose heat through the headers. You want heat in the exhaust to make the turbos spool quicker. Smoother flow does not matter much in the exhaust when you are trying to cram it all through those turbo exhaust housings.
Interesting.....
Well I had my headers Jet Hot coated for exactly that reason. I didn't want heat escaping into the engine compartment unduly and to be directed out of the tailpipes. I was a bit discouraged to discover that the catalytic converters were not coated, but come to find out that the cat manufacturers will actually void the warranty if you coat the cats. Something to do with the cats retaining TOO MUCH heat and therefore burning out the "guts". So with your comment about headers in mind, does the Jet Hot coating help in respect to header compatibility with the STS, or is it insignificant?
Further, what about exhaust pipe diameters? Are bigger or smaller better to spin the turbos? Mine are 3 inches all the way down to the flange that connects to the muffler pipes, which necks down to 2.5 inches. Are three inch pipes better or worse for driving the turbos?
Well I had my headers Jet Hot coated for exactly that reason. I didn't want heat escaping into the engine compartment unduly and to be directed out of the tailpipes. I was a bit discouraged to discover that the catalytic converters were not coated, but come to find out that the cat manufacturers will actually void the warranty if you coat the cats. Something to do with the cats retaining TOO MUCH heat and therefore burning out the "guts". So with your comment about headers in mind, does the Jet Hot coating help in respect to header compatibility with the STS, or is it insignificant?
Further, what about exhaust pipe diameters? Are bigger or smaller better to spin the turbos? Mine are 3 inches all the way down to the flange that connects to the muffler pipes, which necks down to 2.5 inches. Are three inch pipes better or worse for driving the turbos?
Anti Venom
Wrencher
The coating on headers helps greatly. 2.5 pipes are best for high exhaust velocity, BUT...the car featured in Vette magazine had headers and 3 inch pipes which neck down to 2.5 not unlike your current setup. That car did 600 rwhp at 10 psi. 525 at 8 psi.
pewter99
This place cracks me up
I just want to reiterate what Greg is saying in that to much boost is gonna ruin your day if your engine isn't up to the task. I looked at the STS early on but it wasn't ready yet for the C5. I went with a Maggie for a few reasons one being reliability. Its pretty much a daily driver with the extra ponies when you want it and without the hassles of the belt issues of the centrifugal units. I just had my first Maggie related issue and that was the Magnavolt box went nuts and caused the fuel pump to run continuously. It is still under the 3 yr warranty so thats not the issue and pretty much it was just more a PITA than anything..car was still driveable and got me home from NC and up to Norris for the fix and a pulley swap This is basically as far as I can go now without getting into the motor..new pully will put me at 8psi ..final numbers not in yet but when I last talked to Mike it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 475/475 +/- on either side. My goal was never to have a 600rwhp street car but a fun daily driver....the turbos and centrifugals certainly are capable of more power but without getting into the motor I couldn't justify having something that would make the power if I couldn't use it.
JMO...
This is basically as far as I can go now without getting into the motor..new pully will put me at 8psi ..final numbers not in yet but when I last talked to Mike it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 475/475 +/- on either side. My goal was never to have a 600rwhp street car but a fun daily driver....the turbos and centrifugals certainly are capable of more power but without getting into the motor I couldn't justify having something that would make the power if I couldn't use it.JMO...
Yeah, I guess that is kind of along my own thinking. I'm a pretty conservative driver, so I certainly don't need 800 hp for a street vehicle. I would probably be breaking things in the drivetrain anyway, which is not my idea of fun.
So all things considered, what is the TOP hp that a stock Z06 drivetrain can safely handle without getting into breakage problems? Yeah I know it depends on how you drive, so let's set that variable to some 55 year old guy who just enjoys the car and doesn't care one whit about beating someone from one stoplight to the next.
Honestly, I don't want more horsepower if it means more downtime because the power shreds a rear end or tranny. I know the rear tires are kind of a fuse for that sort of thing since they will be the first to break loose from what they are designed to do. But still, I don't think the stock parts were designed to have unlimited stresses applied to them.
So all things considered, what is the TOP hp that a stock Z06 drivetrain can safely handle without getting into breakage problems? Yeah I know it depends on how you drive, so let's set that variable to some 55 year old guy who just enjoys the car and doesn't care one whit about beating someone from one stoplight to the next.
Honestly, I don't want more horsepower if it means more downtime because the power shreds a rear end or tranny. I know the rear tires are kind of a fuse for that sort of thing since they will be the first to break loose from what they are designed to do. But still, I don't think the stock parts were designed to have unlimited stresses applied to them.