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Unread 02-20-2019, 07:57 PM   #1
Rich Z
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Default Supreme Court Limits Civil Asset Forfeiture, Rules Excessive Fines Apply To States

Maybe it won't be such a scary proposition driving through areas where some law enforcement agencies prey for profit on motorists passing through.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...rbg-timbs.html
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Unread 02-20-2019, 08:32 PM   #2
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About time .I can only assume seized funds will be returned promptly with interest.
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Unread 02-20-2019, 08:59 PM   #3
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So El Chapo should get $14 billion back?
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Unread 02-21-2019, 12:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85vette View Post
So El Chapo should get $14 billion back?
Is that punishment equivalent to the crimes he committed?

If that $14 billion was made directly from his dealings in drugs, then I would say that it does, and too bad, too sad for him.

But for some average Joe driving through Louisiana to have his Corvette and all his cash seized because cops found the cash had some miniscule trace of drugs on some of the bills detected by a lab test, no, sorry, I don't agree with that.

And certainly under no circumstances should the law enforcement agencies at any level act as mercenaries keeping any of the "spoils" gained in the enforcement of the law. That sort of thing cannot help but be abused.
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Unread 07-01-2022, 09:34 AM   #5
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Didn't see the reply until today but this is a discussion that has no definitive outcome. When you understand what the drugs do to users and families, 14 billion dollars really doesn't cover it. I dealt with the users, the dealers, and the families of both and there was no paradise to be found from any viewpoint. The Wakulla County Sheriff's Office actually had a Cadillac Escalade that was used by the Sheriff's Office after it was seized from a crack dealer. I don't have a problem with that myself. I'm glad I am removed from having to deal with this in my life anymore frankly. Ill gotten booty is ill gotten booty. That's my opinion anyway. But I have seen the smirks and heard the comments on the ride I gave some to the jail, about how taking their stuff (guns, cars, boats, etc.) "didn't mean $hit", that they'd be out and doing their deals before the end of the day. You may be saying that I'm not giving them the benefit of a fair trial but with some of the ones I've dealt with, let's just say, when you know, you know. They're playing the system. I know of people in your county who live this way. One of thems son actually baked marijuana laced brownies and took them to school where teachers and other students consumed them and some were taken to the hospital for "adverse reactions". Cute prank, right? We don't live in a perfect world but I never worked for any law enforcement agency that purposefully seized property just because they could. Anyway, what prompted me to bring this thread back to life is:

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/florida-...213000693.html
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Unread 07-01-2022, 06:36 PM   #6
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Cops already have a lot of temptations. They don't need valuable property taken as confiscations prior to convictions to add to that. Asset seizures without a trial conviction proving guilt is just too ripe for abuses to take place by LEOs too weak (or too ethically challenged) to resist the temptations presented them.

Another prime example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.

IMHO.
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Unread 07-02-2022, 10:43 PM   #7
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Well. I think we both know that El Chapo didn't make $14 billion selling tacos. I mean what else DID he do, besides kill people and run a drug cartel?

And it's not like the Sheriff (or any other law enforcement agency) is going to go to your house and randomly take your property because you ran a stop sign.

Many seized assets are actually given up as part of a plea deal to avoid a trial. And others are seized, impounded and held until such time as the courts determine if they were used in a felony. Several years ago, when I lived in Jacksonville, a known drug dealer gave up his Porsche and a large sum of cash that was seized as part of a plea deal to get a lighter sentence. He then went to the Sheriff's auction and bought the car back on the steps of the courthouse while he was still out on bond. He still had plenty of money and he was able to "buy" some time, and get his car back. He was a career criminal.

Law enforcement agencies aren't the ones who make the decisions as to the disposition of the assets seized. They file the paperwork to initiate property seizure when certain felonies are committed, but the disposition is through the courts. If you're going to make money in the illegal drug trade (or prostitution, fill in the blank felony) that's just one of the obstacles you have to deal with. I don't feel sorry for them.

Don't put it all on the law enforcement agencies though, it's just a tool made available to them that was approved through legislation. Apparently some politicians thought it was a good idea.
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Unread 07-03-2022, 01:48 AM   #8
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Heck, I am all for it if serious criminals are the only ones affected by such laws. And it is limited to SERIOUS crimes. There has to be strict limits in place for when confiscation of anyone's property is justified, and even then, it really must be confined by the limitations imposed by constitutional protections of the individual.

Yeah, it sounds silly to think someone could have their vehicle impounded for running a stop sign, but can you really say that it is impossible for that to happen via some change in the law sometime in the future? I am sure some slick attorney (now a law maker) can make a case for such an action endangering people and therefore be akin to conspiring to commit manslaughter. Laws can be twisted and modified as necessary to bring them way out of the intent and scope of such laws as originally intended.

For instance:

It is a felony if you steal more than $300 worth of oranges from a grove.

If you steal ANY property valued at more than $750, that is a felony. With inflation like it is, soon that will cover a LOT of ground.

Stealing a fire extinguisher of any value is a felony.

Trespassing on a construction site is a felony.

Trespassing on commercial horticulture property is a felony.

Stealing a stop sign is a felony.

Stealing a firearm is a felony.

Stealing anything valued at $300 or more from someone 65 years old or older is a felony.

How many of those above are actually serious crimes of violence?

So if such felonies could potentially result in civil forfeiture of any associated property, either now or in the future, sure, why couldn't failure to stop at a stop sign join that list?

Once you are on that slippery slope, it can be damned difficult to get off of it sometimes.
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Unread 07-03-2022, 10:18 AM   #9
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Well I certainly can't speak to the current mindset of those who MAKE the law. What with all the "progressives" and liberals who call to defund law enforcement, they may even go the other way and do away with seizure altogether. You know they have no boundry when it comes to buying a vote. I'm surprised we haven't seen a bill that would allow convicted felons to vote from their prison cell.

As for the INTENT of this law, I agree with it.

My biggest peeve in all of this is, that law enforcement has VERY specific rules to follow, whereas criminals.....have none! Can you imagine watching a football game where one team is required to abide by the rules and the other team, no rules apply?! And yet somehow, the team following the rules is expected to win!

Having been there, literally, it's VERY frustrating! I miss it less and less every day. And I'm making a WHOLE lot more money to be less stressed now so it's a win-win for me.
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Unread 07-03-2022, 07:55 PM   #10
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Heck, after watching the so-called "department of justice" and how they handle people blatantly violating the law in upper levels of government, as well as people being obviously murdered, and they fall all over themselves to ignore the evidence and call it suicide or accidental death, I am pretty much convinced that there is no rule by law in this country any longer. It is all based on politics and connections, with certain levels of people being far above the law.

So why should I be concerned with following the law? Why should I? I do tend to follow the law, because for the most part laws that would impact me seem to be fair and reasonable, and I try to be fair and reasonable. But an unfair or unreasonable law? Screw it. If the people making the laws don't have to follow them, then they are leading by example as far as I am concerned. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Quite frankly I used to believe the FBI was above all this political nonsense. But after the last few years, if I KNEW of a federal crime being committed and could volunteer that evidence to the FBI, I would not. I have absolutely no respect for them any longer, and wouldn't lift a finger to help them in any way.

And don't even get me started concerning how there could ever possibly be a law on the books making a criminal offense out of "contempt of Congress"!
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