Insurance/body shop help needed

I'm not sure where to post this. I would like to learn from the folks who know about legal issues and body issues, so I figured that I'd just post it in the general forum. Mods, feel free to move it wherever it is most appropriate.

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Hey folks. I need your help.

I"m going to keep names out of this until it is resolved. I'll post them after it is resolved, though.

In November, I was rear-ended in my 03 Z06 while I was stopped at a light. (The Millennium Yellow must be hard to see in the Florida sunlight...) The guy hit me hard enough to push me into the car in front of me, so there was damage on both ends. The front was mostly paint, but the rear had damage to the right tail light and caused a rip in the rear plastic, behind the right tire. There was some new exhaust noise, and apparently the metal bumper (underneath) was damaged, too.

I've got the same insurance carrier as the guy who hit me. I filed the claim under his policy (it saved me my deductible), and at the adjuster's recommendation, I brought the car to the local "preferred" shop. This is at a dealership where I also purchased the car, extended warranty, and I get basically all of my service. (They don't normally do Corvettes, but they are a GM dealer.) I felt like everything would turn out OK.

When I got the car back, I saw that the paint on both the nose and rear of the car didn't quite match the rest of the car, and the rear bumper wasn't as "flush" with the rest of the body as it was previously. The guy at the shop said that it could be the lighting (it was late in the day), so I took it home. The next day, it looked the same, and I also noticed that there is also a slight bump where the rip was repaired on the rear plastic. (You can really see it when the sunlight is coming from the nose-end of the car.)

I took it back to the shop, and they said that paint is hard to match, and my insurance carrier doesn't pay to "blend" new paint into adjacent body panels when it is the "bumper covers" that are repainted. I say that I realize that "technically" these are bumper covers, but essentially they are the entire nose and rear of the car. I called the insurance carrier, and they sent someone out to look at the car. He says that he thinks that the paint would be considered "acceptable" in the industry.

At this point, I think that maybe I"m being the unreasonable one, so I take it to a couple of other body shops and a local body shop paint supply place (they help shops match paint). They ALL say that they would NOT consider it acceptable work, and that it surely reduces the value of the car. The insurance carrier has said that they won't do anything more, and the body shop says the same thing. I've kept working the process and escalating it, and they finally brought in the body shop's paint rep to get his opinion, but I won't hear back until the first week in January.

Slight rant:
I've been with this insurance carrier for better than 14 years, but I've never really had to experience the claim process until now. I've also sent business to the dealership where I bought the car. I had even gone there a couple of months ago to look at newer cars. I've been a great customer to both organizations, and I'm really surprised at the apathy from both of them.



So my questions:

I've been working within the process with the insurance folks and also with the body shop, but I don't seem to be getting anywhere. Have any of you been down this path with your 'Vettes before? Is there anything that I can do short of taking legal action? (I'm fully prepared to do that, but I'd rather not.) Have any of you dealt with "diminished value" claims? What do you recommend I do?

One thing you did not mention is if the insurance has paid the final settlement on the claim. Maybe time to consult an attorney :shrug01:

I also appears that it took place in a roadway construction zone you may have a claim against the contractor as well. Again when dealing with liabilty and damage claims only an attorney can tell you for sure.

mickeystoysz16 said:

One thing you did not mention is if the insurance has paid the final settlement on the claim. Maybe time to consult an attorney :shrug01:

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Good question. The insurance company gave me a check, and I signed it over to the body shop when I picked up my car. My claim is still open with the insurance company, however.

You do have diminished value this damage will show up on a car fax and affect the resale price, even if the paint matched and the bumper fit.:twocents:

I was an independent claims adjuster for 17 years in the state of Florida and every auto estimate I ever wrote had blend time based upon the required paint for the panel(s) involved, usually 20-30% (.2 to .3 per 1.0 hr of paint time) of the overall paint time was allowed for blending. Granted there are alot of companies in our state and each can play the "we don't, blah blah blah"

The main thing to pursue is you paid a premium for insurance to restore the vehicle to "Pre-accident" condition. If your bumper paint and quarter panel paint didn't match before then they don't owe you a match, if it did match then they owe you a match, no more no less. If you want it done you have to stay on them, work up the food chain and when all else fails use this beautiful phrase that no carrier wants to hear, "State Insurance Commisioner's office" that's where you file a complaint against an insurance carrier. Use this as a last resort but when your reasonable complaint falls on deaf ears then this should help or confirm that you'll need to request your right to demand appraisal since you and the insurer have not come to an agreement on the damages and the repair.

Again, it really shouldn't come to this but it's just info to keep in the back of your head. Document every call, date and time, who you spoke to via phone and in person with body shops, other shops you've gone to for a second opinion, etc.

Based upon your photos the color difference is obvious, the company should have photos from the appraiser who wrote an estimate or body shop if they let them do it which will show your paint matched before and now it doesn't now. It's not as if your asking for the entire car to be repainted since it doesn't need it.

As far as not being able to match perfectly there is some truth to that because the factory has more colors to use in their formula when they make a paint color. The after market paint companies that shops buy their paint from don't have as many colors available so in theory they can't mix the exact same formula that the factory used, this is where experience and tinting comes in to play and that's how the body shops match and then "blend" the new paint with the existing.

The bottom line is if you want something done with certain insurance companies you have to work for it, become the squeky wheel, thorn in their side, etc. you get the picture. Being nice, though it is the right thing to do will yield little success, they'll steam roll you until you give in.

Good Luck, and when all else fails you can seek the advise of an Attorney, but you'll find it difficult to find one to take this type of case since they'll only make money based on what you pay them. Liability is different since coverages are much larger and where they make their money. Property damage is non-profitable and therefore most attorneys, unless you know them won't be interested unless you pay a retainer which would probably exceed what it would cost to pay a shop to re-spray and blend the paint the correct way.

Worst case scenario is to pull your policy out and look for a paint match exclusion, if it's there you may not have a leg to stand on and I would replace the insurance company with a better one. Naturally verfiying their position on paint matching.

If you use an independent agent, I would call them too, explain everything. Agents know how to make a big stink over unhappy customers.

Post #5 is great advice .:thumbsup:

palmbeachvette76 said:

I was an independent claims adjuster for 17 years in the state of Florida...

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Wow! I can't thank you enough. I think that this will be great help.

palmbeachvette76 said:

I was an independent claims adjuster for 17 years in the state of Florida and every auto estimate I ever wrote had blend time based upon the required paint for the panel(s) involved, usually 20-30% (.2 to .3 per 1.0 hr of paint time) of the overall paint time was allowed for blending. Granted there are alot of companies in our state and each can play the "we don't, blah blah blah"

The main thing to pursue is you paid a premium for insurance to restore the vehicle to "Pre-accident" condition. If your bumper paint and quarter panel paint didn't match before then they don't owe you a match, if it did match then they owe you a match, no more no less. If you want it done you have to stay on them, work up the food chain and when all else fails use this beautiful phrase that no carrier wants to hear, "State Insurance Commisioner's office" that's where you file a complaint against an insurance carrier. Use this as a last resort but when your reasonable complaint falls on deaf ears then this should help or confirm that you'll need to request your right to demand appraisal since you and the insurer have not come to an agreement on the damages and the repair.

Again, it really shouldn't come to this but it's just info to keep in the back of your head. Document every call, date and time, who you spoke to via phone and in person with body shops, other shops you've gone to for a second opinion, etc.

Based upon your photos the color difference is obvious, the company should have photos from the appraiser who wrote an estimate or body shop if they let them do it which will show your paint matched before and now it doesn't now. It's not as if your asking for the entire car to be repainted since it doesn't need it.

As far as not being able to match perfectly there is some truth to that because the factory has more colors to use in their formula when they make a paint color. The after market paint companies that shops buy their paint from don't have as many colors available so in theory they can't mix the exact same formula that the factory used, this is where experience and tinting comes in to play and that's how the body shops match and then "blend" the new paint with the existing.

The bottom line is if you want something done with certain insurance companies you have to work for it, become the squeky wheel, thorn in their side, etc. you get the picture. Being nice, though it is the right thing to do will yield little success, they'll steam roll you until you give in.

Good Luck, and when all else fails you can seek the advise of an Attorney, but you'll find it difficult to find one to take this type of case since they'll only make money based on what you pay them. Liability is different since coverages are much larger and where they make their money. Property damage is non-profitable and therefore most attorneys, unless you know them won't be interested unless you pay a retainer which would probably exceed what it would cost to pay a shop to re-spray and blend the paint the correct way.

Worst case scenario is to pull your policy out and look for a paint match exclusion, if it's there you may not have a leg to stand on and I would replace the insurance company with a better one. Naturally verfiying their position on paint matching.

If you use an independent agent, I would call them too, explain everything. Agents know how to make a big stink over unhappy customers.

Click to expand...

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

:thumbsup:

PS I worked as a Independent Appraiser on the Treasure Coast for a few years too,Document,Document,Document is the answer!!:thumbsup:

Insurance Commissioners office gets stuff done too,Them boys and girls eat adjuster's for breakfast!!:rofl1::rofl1::rofl1:

palmbeachvette76 said:

I was an independent claims adjuster for 17 years in the state of Florida and every auto estimate I ever wrote had blend time based upon the required paint for the panel(s) involved, usually 20-30% (.2 to .3 per 1.0 hr of paint time) of the overall paint time was allowed for blending. Granted there are alot of companies in our state and each can play the "we don't, blah blah blah"

The main thing to pursue is you paid a premium for insurance to restore the vehicle to "Pre-accident" condition. If your bumper paint and quarter panel paint didn't match before then they don't owe you a match, if it did match then they owe you a match, no more no less. If you want it done you have to stay on them, work up the food chain and when all else fails use this beautiful phrase that no carrier wants to hear, "State Insurance Commisioner's office" that's where you file a complaint against an insurance carrier. Use this as a last resort but when your reasonable complaint falls on deaf ears then this should help or confirm that you'll need to request your right to demand appraisal since you and the insurer have not come to an agreement on the damages and the repair.

Again, it really shouldn't come to this but it's just info to keep in the back of your head. Document every call, date and time, who you spoke to via phone and in person with body shops, other shops you've gone to for a second opinion, etc.

Based upon your photos the color difference is obvious, the company should have photos from the appraiser who wrote an estimate or body shop if they let them do it which will show your paint matched before and now it doesn't now. It's not as if your asking for the entire car to be repainted since it doesn't need it.

As far as not being able to match perfectly there is some truth to that because the factory has more colors to use in their formula when they make a paint color. The after market paint companies that shops buy their paint from don't have as many colors available so in theory they can't mix the exact same formula that the factory used, this is where experience and tinting comes in to play and that's how the body shops match and then "blend" the new paint with the existing.

The bottom line is if you want something done with certain insurance companies you have to work for it, become the squeky wheel, thorn in their side, etc. you get the picture. Being nice, though it is the right thing to do will yield little success, they'll steam roll you until you give in.

Good Luck, and when all else fails you can seek the advise of an Attorney, but you'll find it difficult to find one to take this type of case since they'll only make money based on what you pay them. Liability is different since coverages are much larger and where they make their money. Property damage is non-profitable and therefore most attorneys, unless you know them won't be interested unless you pay a retainer which would probably exceed what it would cost to pay a shop to re-spray and blend the paint the correct way.

Worst case scenario is to pull your policy out and look for a paint match exclusion, if it's there you may not have a leg to stand on and I would replace the insurance company with a better one. Naturally verfiying their position on paint matching.

If you use an independent agent, I would call them too, explain everything. Agents know how to make a big stink over unhappy customers.

Click to expand...

This says it all. I was a Chevy dealer B.S. manager for 9 years and that was a good match color for us .If blend time was'nt on the estaminet and the insurance co. would not pay it, We would blend the panel to prevent a problem like this. A corvette is the only Chevy body that the frt & rear cover are painted with the body for a perfect color match , The rest are painted by the vender that makes the cover. You need to make the dealer G.M. aware that your not happy with the repair also. You don't have to be an a$$ but thy need to know there is a risk of losing a customer. good luck
P.S. I know those covers don't fit jam up but thy fit nicer than that one.

Fletcher4u, I did not konw that the bumber cover s were painted at the same time, my mill yellow rear bumber has always been a tad diff from the car and I figured it was normal.

My advice is limited to my personal experience. I have had the front and rear of my '03 painted just as normal maintenance. I cannot see any difference in color. I would not have accepted the work if I could have. My '03 is the Anniversary Special and requires 3 different coats and is time consuming. The body shop didn't have any problems.
Each of the panels have to be removed from the car otherwise they will start peeling. They cannot be masked off. I would take the car to another body shop that comes highly recommended and stay far away from the dealer. Try and Google 'Corvette painting' and I'm sure you'll find much more info than I've given you. Arm yourself with a little knowledge and you'll be much further ahead than you are now.

Post #8 and #7 are great!
Absolutely spot on:thumbsup:

The only thing I'll add is this:

The main thing to pursue is you paid a premium for insurance to restore the vehicle to "Pre-accident" condition. If your bumper paint and quarter panel paint didn't match before then they don't owe you a match, if it did match then they owe you a match, no more no less. If you want it done you have to stay on them, work up the food chain and when all else fails use this beautiful phrase that no carrier wants to hear, "State Insurance Commisioner's office" that's where you file a complaint against an insurance carrier. Use this as a last resort but when your reasonable complaint falls on deaf ears then this should help or confirm that you'll need to request your right to demand appraisal since you and the insurer have not come to an agreement on the damages and the repair.

The above is dead on...except the part about the Insurance Commissioner's Office.

He's right that insurance companies hate to hear the words, but auto carriers have no fear of the office.

I've been down this road 2x before, and found our States Insurance Commissioners Office to be one of the 2 most titless organizations in State Government!:thumbsdown:

As with the Dept. of Agriculture, they're mostly concerned with $$$$, what they can get, not what they can do for the consumer.

As well, thier primary focus is on health and life insurance. They do little with auto insurance.

I was told on 2 occasions, that they could send a letter, but there wasn't much more they could do to unravel a claims complaint????

If I can offer anything, it's this tidbit of advise when working with the state.....don't bet on them!

Something similar happened recently with some members vehicles.

Most depended on the State DOAC to do something toresolve the issue.

Instead, several months were wasted waiting for them, nothing was done, and eventually, those involved ended up, right where they would have anyway, placing them months behind in repairs, and much aggravation

My advise, if you can't get any satisfaction from your company (and you should be able to if you "squeak" loud enough:thumbsup::yesnod:, go ahead and write the letter to the Insurance Commissioner to let the company know you're serious.

But, if you really want to get the companys attention, mention "BAD FAITH."somewhere along the line, later in the negotiations with the adjuster and his/her supervisor.

Now that's a term no insurance company wants to hear:lmao::thumbsup:
I wouldn't waste too much time messing with the insurance commissioners office and waiting for them to do something.
As with DOAC, they're slow to react, and generally, are not very proactive.

The advise to lawyer up, is good advise.:thumbsup:
The only thing I'd add, is to wait until you've exhausted your appeals process within your contract parameters, then do it.
Otherwise, you may spend money you don't needto spend, and a lawyer can slow things down a bit on occasion.

I work with attorney's and insurance company adjusters in my business, and have dealt with this on many occasions.

In summary:

1) work with your company and the adjuster or thier supervisors to resolve the issue timely.
2) If not being resolved, mention "bad faith" and attorney in the same sentence:lmaoIt's cheaper for them to make this go away than fight you:yesnod:)

Then, if nothing happens:

1) Write the Dept of Insurance and make the formal complaint.
2) Contact an attorney and get the ball rolling:thumbsup:

It can be tedious, but with the right information (as that provided by Jesse & Palm Beach Vette), you should prevail rather quickly and with no additional $$ being spent.:thumbsup:

Best of luck.

Thanks to everyone! I've been pulling my hair out for a while on this one.

I'll let you all know how it turns out!

This is one reason why I insure my Vettes with Grundy. They know the collector car business and that body shop correctness that is needed when dealing with cars like ours. When my '82 was hit in the nose (twice, and both times breaking the paint but not the neoprene), the whole car was painted the first time since the color has to match across the board, and then spot painted the 2nd time. The 2nd incident, Grundy paid to have the front nose pulled since the car was previously painted. The 2nd time I paid the difference to have the whole car spot painted...to eliminate the road rock chips that continually happens. I then had my paint guy 'clear' the entire car. So, I have a car that has been painted completely once, spot painted the 2nd time, and 'cleared' twice, etc., and u could never tell the difference...up until me telling all of u now about the '82.

Grundy has no deductible (or at least I'm paying for no deductable :hehehe. Bottom line? Collector car insurance is actually cheaper than regulars like State Farm, Progressive, etc.. For my '06 (which is insured for 75K (my choice to insure it for that much), and the '82, (which is insured for 25K (again, my choice of coverage), I pay @ 1,230 bucks a year...full coverage, no deductible. I tell them where I want the car restored as well. It takes about 2 weeks for the coverage to be granted when first initiating contact...that is to work out how much u want covered...and for u to take a front, rear and 3/4 photograph of the car, then having them approve your policy, then getting your insurance cards sent and u paying in full. The only drawback is no monthly payment plan...but with all the collector car types, I find this the norm. Hope this helps!!!

Moral of the story? Either way, u need an insurance company, and a body/paint guy, that knows what it takes to bring cars like the Vette back to 'new'...and no hassle in between either the insurance or the shop.

I just wanted to say thanks again to all who responded here. My issue is resolved, though not quite how I anticipated.

I got a call from a sales guy at the dealership a few days ago, and he told me that they had a 2009 Z that just came in. I told him that I wasn't buying another car from them until this issue is resolved. (...and depending on how it gets resolved, I may never do that!) I reluctantly went there to look at the car, though. While I was there, I told him that I had an appointment with a professional photographer and also with a shop that does post-repair inspections (both true). I said that I anticipated that this was all going to escalate, and that I was preparing for that.

To make a long story short, the sales guys and the management were really apologetic, and they did more than I expected to help get me into the 09. Soooooo... I bought it.

My wife is a lawyer, and she was chomping at the bit to get this set right. I never gave her the "weapons free" directive, and I kept it to myself throughout the process. She is still pissed about the whole thing, and she said that she'd love to help others who get pushed around when they are trying to get their cars repaired. If any of you ever need help, PM me, and I'll send her the message. She has a friend who deals with insurance companies all the time, and his opinion at the beginning of the process was that we had one of the least cooperative ones in the industry. In my opinion at the end of the process, it proved to be true.

At any rate, I think that the dealership (Crest Cadillac in Venice) recovered fairly well. I'll buy another car from them. I will not EVER give it to them for body work, though. The body shop manager there seems to prefer "done" over "done right."

The insurance company (Allstate) lost two customers that they had for 15 years. They also lost the business of several of our family members who aren't going to renew with them. Their local folks don't seem to care about making someone whole again, and the $20K+ I've paid them over the years didn't seem to matter to them at all. I'm checking out Grundy's and Chubb, and I"m moving away from Allstate ASAFP.

Anyway - thanks again for the help! I'm curious how it all would have turned out, but I'm glad that I don't have to deal with it anymore.

:dancer01::thumbsup:
Looks like it all turned out well in the end:thumbsup:

Stick around and enjoy the site. We're more like family here than most websites, and we try to help each other out whenever possible.

We may be starting a section for members with specialties who can assist other members.
It's always nice to know who knows what and whom when dealing with an issue, be it car related or personal:thumbsup:

Tell your wife to feel free to post up when that section comes on line.
We'd love to have her expertise in these and other matters.

BTW, we're having a little (about 20 people at present) get together at Frenchy's Rockaway Grill on Clearwater Beach in about 2 weeks:
http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?p=128775#post128775

We'd love to have you both join us if you can make it up.:dancer01:
It's a family event and should be a great time with good people!

Take care:wavey:

If you are N C M member they have an insurance program and it saved me 450.00 a year on my Z06.