• Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.

shooting an intruder

ClockworkC5

ClockworkC5

droog
last night someone broke into our house. luckily my girlfriend heard something going on. for some reason she didnt wake me up, but instead turned on the lights and went downstairs to confront the would be robbers with her intimidating 98# figure. whoever it was ran off. we will be using the house alarm now, but id like to know, can i shoot someone, as long as they are inside and evident that they broke in? im planning on getting my concealed weapons permit, but in the meantime i just have a 45 ruger i picked up at the last gunshow and a semi automatic shotgun.
 
A couple of things came to mind when I read your post:

1) I need to get an alarm system:rolleyes:
2) Generally speaking, if no one else in the house (ie: kids in a separate room) is/are in danger, DON'T go looking for the burglar!
They know where they are, what they're going to do if they're caught (in most cases) and you don't know whether they are armed!
Secure yourself and loved one in a locked room, and call the Police on a cell phone rather than a hard wired phone if possible.
Let them do what you pay them to do!
(this also sets up a great defense for your use of force claim)
Nothing material in that house is worth your life:nonod:

3) Tell her next time (God willing there won't be a "next time") wake you the F**k up!:rofl1:

And since we're talking about the use of deadly force, remember: ALWAYS IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET!!!!

Don't f**k up and shoot your kid, brother, etc., who happens to stagger in the door late at night without a key, and doesn't want to wake you!
You're not covered under the doctrine!:NoNo:

The above link is a great source, especially for concealed weapon licensees.
Make sure you read it all to the get the full effect of the doctrine/law.

Here's a couple more that you may find helpful:

"Castle Doctrine"

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/26916167/detail.html

http://www.gunlaws.com/FloridaCastleDoctrine.htm

In the last one:
One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.
Click to expand...

the section underlined and in red, is a bit misleading to most.

To commit a burglary, you DO NOT have to "break" in as common thought assumes, nor do you need to use force to enter a dwelling or structure, in order to commit the offense of "Burglary."

Burglary Defined:
(generally)

Florida
•In Florida, burglary is defined as the unauthorized entering or remaining in a dwelling, structure or conveyance with the intent to commit an offense unless it is open to the public.
Click to expand...

(Defined Per Florida Statute)

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing=&URL=0800-0899/0810/Sections/0810.02.html

The 2010 Florida Statutes
Title XLVI
CRIMES
Chapter 810
BURGLARY AND TRESPASS
View Entire Chapter
810.02Burglary.—
(1)(a)For offenses committed on or before July 1, 2001, “burglary” means entering or remaining in a dwelling, a structure, or a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense therein, unless the premises are at the time open to the public or the defendant is licensed or invited to enter or remain.

(b)For offenses committed after July 1, 2001, “burglary” means:
1.Entering a dwelling, a structure, or a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense therein, unless the premises are at the time open to the public or the defendant is licensed or invited to enter; or
2.Notwithstanding a licensed or invited entry, remaining in a dwelling, structure, or conveyance:
a.Surreptitiously, with the intent to commit an offense therein;
b.After permission to remain therein has been withdrawn, with the intent to commit an offense therein; or
c.To commit or attempt to commit a forcible felony, as defined in s. 776.08.
....redacted....
Click to expand...

Here's where you have to be careful:
(F.s.s.: 776.08)
The 2010 Florida Statutes
Title XLVI
CRIMES
Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE
View Entire Chapter
776.08Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 4, ch. 75-298; s. 289, ch. 79-400; s. 5, ch. 93-212; s. 10, ch. 95-195.
Click to expand...

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.08.html

"Trespassing (with exception, a misdemeanor in most cases) can not be the basis for "burglary."

When the state is looking at the charge, they're looking for "other charges" such as larceny (theft), assault, Home invasion, etc., combined with the unlawful entry or remaining therein.

Recap:
Burglary= The unlwful entry/remaining in a structure or conveyance (vehicle for short) w/intent to commit some crime other than trespassing therein=FORCIBLE FELONY.
Forcible Felony=The right to the use of deadly force).

And again, there's no need to retreat from the threat!!
Identify your target!
 
ClockworkC5 said:
last night someone broke into our house. luckily my girlfriend heard something going on. for some reason she didnt wake me up, but instead turned on the lights and went downstairs to confront the would be robbers with her intimidating 98# figure. whoever it was ran off. we will be using the house alarm now, but id like to know, can i shoot someone, as long as they are inside and evident that they broke in? im planning on getting my concealed weapons permit, but in the meantime i just have a 45 ruger i picked up at the last gunshow and a semi automatic shotgun.
Click to expand...

I'll keep this short and simple. No offense intended to Shadow. :D

If someone breaks into your house you better use the 45 if you're confronted. I don't think I would even say 'freeze'. They know you're in there and obviously don't care. That's serious business and scary to even think about. Your girlfriend is a very lucky lady.

Usually a shotgun would be the weapon of choice. You don't have to worry about a projectile penetrating walls and killing your neighbor. A guy I knew in Ft Worth woke up to the sound of an explosion. His neighbor was cleaning a gun, it fired and the bullet went through two walls and demolished his TV set.
 
Bob K said:
I'll keep this short and simple. No offense intended to Shadow. :D

If someone breaks into your house you better use the 45 if you're confronted. I don't think I would even say 'freeze'. They know you're in there and obviously don't care. That's serious business and scary to even think about. Your girlfriend is a very lucky lady.

Usually a shotgun would be the weapon of choice. You don't have to worry about a projectile penetrating walls and killing your neighbor. A guy I knew in Ft Worth woke up to the sound of an explosion. His neighbor was cleaning a gun, it fired and the bullet went through two walls and demolished his TV set.
Click to expand...

No offense taken. Why would there be?
If you're "confronted", then sure, protect yourself and your loved ones.

OTOH, DO NOT go looking for them unless you have kids or family in another room.

If someone comes into my home unannounced, with my grandaughter on the other end of the house, I'm going hunting~!

But those are extenuating circumstances.

Otherwise, you might be wise to heed the advise previously given, lock yourself in the room with your weapon trained on the door, and comfortably braced and shielded by, lets say a bed, and call the cops on your cell phone (they can cut hardwires).

You might live long enough to tell about it.
 
Shadow said:
No offense taken. Why would there be?
Click to expand...

Did you not see the smiley?

I'm just sayen if they break in knowing it's occupied it is be a much more dangerous scenario. They're probably armed and prepared to kill. If they come to your bedroom, identify the target and shoot. Do not hesitate.
 
Bob K said:
Did you not see the smiley?
Click to expand...

Apparently not:(

I'm just sayen if they break in knowing it's occupied it is be a much more dangerous scenario. They're probably armed and prepared to kill. If they come to your bedroom, identify the target and shoot. Do not hesitate.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I teach in our personal safety and defense course given to the general public.
Stay put. get ready, know what you're going to do, alert the authorities and wait.
If they take the china, so be it.
DOn't be a hero...the funerals are boring:(

Sub-Zero said:
It is sooo much easier to know what to do in a cockpit. If you come in they don't walk out.
Click to expand...

That's gotta be bitch on flight attendants:lmao:

BTW-Who makes the call now as to cockpit weapons?
Is it the airline or the pilot?
 
we have an alarm, we just didnt set it at night when we were sleeping. we are settingthe alarm at night now and im planning on putting another deadbold on the door. one that you can only work from the inside, slides into a hole i drill thru the tile and into the concrete foundation. no key, just locks from the inside. also put rods in the slidding glass door tracks. thanks for everyones input and rest assure im not trying to shoot anyone, i was just pretty worked up when the whole thing happened. sarah is explicetly clear on the procedure of waking both alec and i up in case of emergency. if this happens again, i hope that the alarm going off will be enough to send whatever piece of $hit runnig, and most likely save their life. ive warned the neighbors, as strange as it sounds im glad they targeted us and not some of the neighbors. they are older and likely unable to protect themselves. not to say old=weak. i just know my neighbors. thanks for everyones help.
 
Shadow said:
Stay put. get ready, know what you're going to do, alert the authorities and wait.
If they take the china, so be it.
DOn't be a hero...the funerals are boring:(
Click to expand...

Damn if I'm going to hide in the bedroom while the cretins steal me blind. If the cops even show up before they leave, they probably wouldn't prosecute anyway. Just make the perps give back what they were trying to steal and send them on their merry way, telling me I need to file civil charges if I can prove damages.... :rolleyes:

I am going to just have to assume that Connie and I are on our own in something like this. To assume otherwise COULD put us into leading roles in that funeral indicated above.
 
BTW, if you NEED to shoot a perp in your house, your first shot will likely temporarily blind you as well as deafen you, so make sure it counts. YOU will also be spotted at that time as well so don't stay where you were when you fired. Bear in mind that flimsy wooden doors and walls made of sheetrock will NOT protect you from return fire, if that happens. Your only protection will be to NOT be where they shoot at.
 
Rich Z said:
Damn if I'm going to hide in the bedroom while the cretins steal me blind. If the cops even show up before they leave, they probably wouldn't prosecute anyway. Just make the perps give back what they were trying to steal and send them on their merry way, telling me I need to file civil charges if I can prove damages.... :rolleyes:

I am going to just have to assume that Connie and I are on our own in something like this. To assume otherwise COULD put us into leading roles in that funeral indicated above.
Click to expand...

I'm starting to think you're anti cops but a lot of your friends are LEO's. I do understand your attitude but friends are friends.

Shadow posted good advice. I've had some advanced training also and if you're moving about the house your chances of winning diminish greatly. Facts are facts and this is one battle you do not want to lose.

I'm not taking sides on this issue but I want you to be safe. We need you. :thumbsup:
 
ClockworkC5 said:
all the bedrooms are upstairs in our house
Click to expand...

Even better.
You now have a tactical advantage:thumbsup:
Do you have the ability to light up the lower level from the top?

Rich Z said:
Damn if I'm going to hide in the bedroom while the cretins steal me blind.
Click to expand...

That of course is your choice my friend and only you can make that decision if/when the time comes.
If that's your decision, I sincerely hope you prevail.:thumbsup:

Although my courses are coed, most are attended by women, many of them business professionals.

Historically and physiologically speaking, most women are less equipped to deal with an armed intruder than an man, and most intruders, especially the nighttime burgler genre' are men.
Of course there's always the exception to the rule on both sides of the gender barrier.

When you do classes with such diverse groups, you have to be general rather than too specific.
If I'm doing 1 on 1 training at your place, then we can be more gender and location specific.
My recommendations are based on actual incidences, historical data and fact, not bravado.

If the cops even show up before they leave, they probably wouldn't prosecute anyway. Just make the perps give back what they were trying to steal and send them on their merry way, telling me I need to file civil charges if I can prove damages.... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Rich, my brother, my friend,...,enough...as a friend...enough.

I am going to just have to assume that Connie and I are on our own in something like this. To assume otherwise COULD put us into leading roles in that funeral indicated above.
Click to expand...

Well, you do live in the boonies, and any choice to do so carries with it, it's own set of risks.
The more remote I become, the less likely law enforcement will reach me before the bad guy.

Look at the recent hijacking of the rich couple doing a 7 year world tour on thier private yacht.
Talk about remote!:eek:

They're now in the hands of pirates off the coast of Somali...go figure?:rolleyes:
The Coast Guard/Navy were never going to make it in time to thwart the attack and the pirates knew that.
Now everyone is in D/C mode.
Hopefully, it'll end similarly to last time with a few cheap rounds and a safe passenger and crew list.

But Somali pirates or not, they're not stupid.
They'll adapt.

These folks should have planned better.
Spend some money and hire some professionals!

Back to the post.....If you actually read my post, you'd realize I never said DON'T SHOOT the fecker!
I'm all for taking the bad guy out of play.
At the same time, I'm just as attuned to keeping the good guys in the game:thumbsup:

In this scenario, you'll actually be setting yourself up for a much better shot while maintaining a high degree of safety for you and Connie.

And remember, this is still a property crime (until they come popping through that locked door;)).

In this case, you'll have a limited and controlled field of fire, potential backlighting from the hallway or ambient lighting to sillouette the intruder, cover and concealment, a stable and comfortable shooting position and a benched weapon at your disposal:thumbsup:

A cup of coffee and a donut and you could wait there all night:lmao:

You've also set up a PERFECT scenario to eliminate any hint of question, criminal or civil, regarding the perpetrators intent and/or your mindset.
This one's so simple, even Calhoun County and the DOAC (your CCW authority) could figure it out:D

If you're concerned about Connie's safety, you'll want to be there to protect her.
If you decide to go looking for the intruder, and she hears gunshots, she may not know if it's you or them?
This leads to other issues which we won't get into at the moment (just some hypothetical "training scenario" crap).

If things went well, you can shout to her and all is good.

If things did not go so well, you've now left her alone in the house, in the boonies, unprotected (save for whatever weapon she may possess), still waiting for the cops to arrive, with what are now really pissed off, and possibly wounded animals.

Not the best scenario I can imagine:nonod:

This is the point i have the most difficulty making, especially to men.
You see, in these cases, it's not about "me" and my "bravery", my machismo, and it's not about my "property" or "my stuff."

It's about protecting my life and the lives of those I love and care about.

In my situation, when I hear something at night, I have to go investigate.
I have no choice.

While my son is 6'2" in great shape, a trained martial artist, and his room is further back in the house, away from the doors, my daughter and grandaughter's room is on the other side of the house, closer to the front door, sliding rear glass door and garage/washroom door:(.
The daughter is no where near capable of defending herself to any reasonable degree, and the grand baby is 5!

And aside from his ability to defend himself better, my son is usually gone until 3-4 am anyway (another "bump in the night" issue I have to deal with-but fortunately, he has a routine:)).

Many times, I'mm up until 2-3 am anyway and when my daughter is gone for the weekend, I sleep in the living room, esentially between my grandaughter and whatever harm may come to her.

There's no machismo there...it's a matter of necessity and planning.

Rich Z said:
BTW, if you NEED to shoot a perp in your house, your first shot will likely temporarily blind you as well as deafen you, so make sure it counts. YOU will also be spotted at that time as well so don't stay where you were when you fired. Bear in mind that flimsy wooden doors and walls made of sheetrock will NOT protect you from return fire, if that happens. Your only protection will be to NOT be where they shoot at.
Click to expand...

Good points.
Actually, your first shot will provide you with a momentary sight picture.
We've done a ton of night shooting betweeen the military and law enforcement.
it's not as bad as it might seem. Not ideal, but not a deal ender either.

The auditory senses actually shut themselves down to protect the body.
You're right though. You won't be able to hear crap well for a while after multiple rounds are discharged. You'll still be able to hear, just very muffled (ask me how I know?
(I knew I forgot something before I gave the command to fire!:lmao:)
 
Shadow said:
Rich, my brother, my friend,...,enough...as a friend...enough.
Click to expand...

Gordon, my friend, don't presume to tell me what to do on my own site. I'm calling things as I see them. Period.

Shadow said:
Well, you do live in the boonies, and any choice to do so carries with it, it's own set of risks.
The more remote I become, the less likely law enforcement will reach me before the bad guy.
In this scenario, you'll actually be setting yourself up for a much better shot while maintaining a high degree of safety for you and Connie.
Click to expand...

And you have no idea of the layout of my house, or what is best for ME and CONNIE, HERE in THIS situation. This house was designed to be open, allow us to view the outside and attendant nature from most rooms. Single ground floor, windows all around with no curtains. We like watching birds at the feeders while laying in bed in the morning. Certainly not built as a fortress with a "safe" room anywhere. Quite simply, anyone casing our house for 2 minutes would know where we were located simply by looking in the windows. To remain in ANY room waiting for the calvary, hoping the bad guys wouldn't "find" us, is ludicrous. If there is an intruder in my house, I am not even going to take my attention off of my surroundings for an instant to reach for the phone. That might be a couple of seconds that I just can't waste in that manner.

Quite honestly, probably the only reason that no one has ever really bothered us here is because EVERYONE knows we have snakes and we have guns. And I'm not telling them we don't have the snakes any longer.... :hehehe: And you can bet people seeing us drive up and down our road in Corvettes will get ideas.... However, anyone passing by our driveway and seeing me likely notices that I am ALWAYS carrying a gun.
 
Bob K said:
I'm starting to think you're anti cops but a lot of your friends are LEO's. I do understand your attitude but friends are friends.

Shadow posted good advice. I've had some advanced training also and if you're moving about the house your chances of winning diminish greatly. Facts are facts and this is one battle you do not want to lose.

I'm not taking sides on this issue but I want you to be safe. We need you. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I don't care what my friends do for a living. But I will call a "spade" as a "spade". They can either deal with it or not. I'm sure a lot of my friends didn't care for the fact that I bred snakes for a living, and will kill a snake when ever they had a chance, regardless. Should I hold that against them and drop them as friends?

And as mentioned in my previous post, my house would be a death trap to simply sit in place and wait if someone had designs of bodily injury. I am just not willing to give a bad guy any advantage whatsoever. And I certainly am not going to cower in a corner hoping they will just take what they want and not hurt me, neither.
 
Bob K said:
I didn't know if that issue had been settled. Can you explain who carries and describe the weapon?
Click to expand...

It is the pilot's choice if he/she want's to become a FFDO, Federal Flight Deck Officer. You go through several written test and a psychiatrist evaluation. After that it is a week training at the same place as the border patrol and FMAs. You get credentials just like the FMAs but your jurisdiction is only the cockpit so you don't need as much training.

I was a FFDO but you can't carry international so I am not anymore. I won't say what the gun is but it is extremely good quality and more than enough. There are tons of FFDOs and even though the current administration and most the airlines don't want the responsibility it is a good thing.

The airlines don't want you because of the risk of problems and there have been some. Pilots do this, paying for their own training and bear the responsibility of the weapon. All this is done for the aircraft security and yes I'm sure a few have gotten out of speeding tickets:D
 
Rich Z said:
Gordon, my friend, don't presume to tell me what to do on my own site. I'm calling things as I see them. Period.
Click to expand...

Man, I don't know where to go with this.
Frankly, I've never seen/heard this side of you:(

Part of me say's to ignore it, consider the reason for it, and move on.
The other says, we have an open enough site that I can respond without retribution.
I guess we'll see?

I'm responding as an individual, and a former member of the class you seem to have so much disdain toward lately.

Now...first, I realize whose site it is. I don't need reminding, thanks.
However, that door swings both ways.

I'm saying (IMO) that your perception is skewed, slanted due to recent events.
But you're right.

And aside from it being "your site", as a citizen you still have the right to continually voice your opposition or disdain for law enforcement in general, without fear of sanctions or retribution.
It's one of those neat little constitutional protections we have goin' on :thumbsup:

At the same time, many of us have the right to disagree and in some cases, be offended.

To me, this wide brush approach is equivalent to me saying (IMO), "all snake breeders are irresponsible", simply because "some" didn't have the decency not to turn loose certain breeds into the wilds of the Everglades, or failed to provide adequate caging for a breed that ultimately killed a small child.

You don't see me jumping up and down demanding that they outlaw private breeders do you?
I'm not even a big fan of them outlawing possession of certain species.
I don't want to be around them, but I don't think we should outlaw it for the responsible breeders.

Instead, we need to make sure we enforce the criteria set upon them and that they do what is expected of them.
And if they don't, deal with it as it should be dealt with.
Overall, a pretty simple concept.

Actually, most of the breeders and handlers I've known or met over the years, just as yourself, are far more responsible than that.:thumbsup:

I'm just not willing to paint everyone with the same wide brush.:NoNo:

Even in my own occasional "Anti-Government/Anti-Law enforcement rants, I try to be specific as to the agency, or the event.

And you have no idea of the layout of my house, or what is best for ME and CONNIE, HERE in THIS situation. This house was designed to be open, allow us to view the outside and attendant nature from most rooms. Single ground floor, windows all around with no curtains. We like watching birds at the feeders while laying in bed in the morning. Certainly not built as a fortress with a "safe" room anywhere. Quite simply, anyone casing our house for 2 minutes would know where we were located simply by looking in the windows. To remain in ANY room waiting for the calvary, hoping the bad guys wouldn't "find" us, is ludicrous. If there is an intruder in my house, I am not even going to take my attention off of my surroundings for an instant to reach for the phone. That might be a couple of seconds that I just can't waste in that manner.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying.
Please re-read the post.
Instead of taking the offensive and thinking anyone is "telling you how to do things", look at the meat and potatoes.
The scenario is a generalization based on the "average" home.

If the comments are not pertinent tp your situation, just ignore them.

I really do put a lot ot thought into these posts, and generally rewrite them several times, trying never to respond in angst or anger.

If you do re-read the post, you'll catch this part you may have missed:
(which may have prompted your initial reaponse about your place?)

If I'm doing 1 on 1 training at your place, then we can be more gender and location specific.
Click to expand...
:banghead::banghead:

One on one training gets very specific.
We always find things never work as well in "real life" as they do in training.

The idea behind training, is to instill confidence in the trainee, get them thinking about thier surroundings, thier options and thier survival.
That's all.
It's not meant to be the end all to end all.
As I mentioned earlier, if my grandaughter is home, I'll violate my own suggestions to attempt to safeguard her.

As we all realize, modern construction doesn't provide ballistic protection.
I don't consider anything structurally other than a purpose built door or wall to be cover.

And if you live in a glass house, then pretty much any expectation of safety or privacy is nullified by anything other than the property location.

For the rest of the world, that locked door may provide a modicum of safety, as does the bed or dresser you're barricaded (not cowering) behind inside.

Moreso, it provides TIME!

Time for help to arrive.
Time for you to prepare.
Time for you to escape.

Even moreso, it sets the intent of the intruder from one bent on committing a property crime, to one focused on personal violence.

Then again, that's probably just another waste of time.

Quite honestly, probably the only reason that no one has ever really bothered us here is because EVERYONE knows we have snakes and we have guns. And I'm not telling them we don't have the snakes any longer.... :hehehe: And you can bet people seeing us drive up and down our road in Corvettes will get ideas.... However, anyone passing by our driveway and seeing me likely notices that I am ALWAYS carrying a gun.
Click to expand...

I guess...:shrug01:

Rich Z said:
I don't care what my friends do for a living. But I will call a "spade" as a "spade". They can either deal with it or not. I'm sure a lot of my friends didn't care for the fact that I bred snakes for a living, and will kill a snake when ever they had a chance, regardless. Should I hold that against them and drop them as friends?
Click to expand...

I'm going to go out on a limb here.
I know I've made my share of comments here on this board regarding my dislike of snakes.
I don't "like" snakes.

And I've made my share of comments about boots, belts, and handbags.
Most people recognize this as banter, joking, sarcasm, and NONE of it that I can recall, has ever been focused on the breeder.
...Just the snake.:D
(I try not to insult large groups of people and thier occupations all at one time.)

Unlike the generalizations you've made regarding law enforcement and it's officers, I've never said "all snake handlers are creepy" or "they're all nuts."
I wouldn't do it, but that's me, and I don't understand snake breeding.
But I'm not ready to lump them all into the same cage:NoNo:

For the record, between law enforcement and private life, I'ver removed many snakes from various locations without killing them.
I didn't realize I needed to keep score?

I even had a "pet" garter snake that used to hang out in the Sago Palm at my front door.
1st time I saw him he scared the chit out of me!:eek:I'm sticking the key in the lock and the little SOB sticks his head out right at my hand!
Don't do that!:mad:

Kill him?
Nope, I named him "sneaky snake"...have no idea where he went, but we actually missed him (or her?) when it was gone:(


And as mentioned in my previous post, my house would be a death trap to simply sit in place and wait if someone had designs of bodily injury. I am just not willing to give a bad guy any advantage whatsoever. And I certainly am not going to cower in a corner hoping they will just take what they want and not hurt me, neither.
Click to expand...

I guess it's all a matter of perception.
You consider it "cowering" and give the impression of some pansy, knees shaking, wetting himself, waiting for the "cavalry" to arrive and save him:lmao:

I consider it tactical preparedness!
Let's make the bad guy come to me, and we'll fight on my turf under my rules.

Once again, if you've read anything I've said, I've NEVER mentioned not capping some azzwipe that enters your house!

I simply propse letting them come to you if you can, rather than blundering around in the dark:D

I really don't consider sitting and waiting for someone to enter my field of fire "cowering.":lmao:
Apparently neither does the U.S. Military:rofl1:
(we called them snipers and "cowering' security stations:) )

And last time I looked, if we'd done a little more of what you consider "cowering" and little less gung ho-balls to the wall, we may have a few more live officers today:(

"Cover and Concealment"....a long way from "Cowering!"

JMHO....I'm not going to argue with you about it.
Take it as you may.:wavey:
 
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