Got my Diablo Predator

Just came in on Wednesday and just today got around to opening the box to look at it. Even browsed through the users manual, such as it is. Not much in there in any technical sense at all. Kind of like a "Predator For Dummies" kind of thing, except they left out any explanations. :banghead:

But one thing did concern me and that is that they state there that this unit is NOT to be used over top of a custom tune. Now the problem is, I bought my Z used about 7 months ago and don't have a clue whether there is a custom tune in there or now. How could I tell?

Back in an earlier episode of of Rich Z's "as the wheels turn", I mentioned an idiosyncrasy where I thought I had a column lock bypass in the thing, and suddenly after I get the headers installed, it acts like if it were there (I got the service column lock message and the steering wheel NEVER locked) then, it is not there any longer, as the steering wheel NOW locks. Someone suggested my PCM had been reflashed, which I don't think happened, and as far as I know, you can't bypass the column lock with any tuner program I am aware of (which isn't saying much, actually).

Anyway, dire warnings were associated with using the Predator if a tune is already present, so now I'm not sure what to do. I just think that in my next life, I am going to live a simpler life. Move to some tropical island somewhere where my biggest problem will be trying to figure out how to make the coconut palm trees grow horizontally, about head height, so I can get to the coconuts easier.....
:crazy03:

well im guessing you can start with a simple adjustment, like idle maybe and see if you get any feedback

Rich

A couple of quick things to check for a simple tune already done on your car.

Do you have a CAGS defeat plug or do you still have 1-4 skip? If you do not have a CAGS defeat and no 1-4 shift, tune.

Check if both fans come on at the same temp, set from the factory. If they are staggered at different temps to come on seperate, you already have a tune.

Jack

gsjack said:

Rich

A couple of quick things to check for a simple tune already done on your car.

Do you have a CAGS defeat plug or do you still have 1-4 skip? If you do not have a CAGS defeat and no 1-4 shift, tune.

Check if both fans come on at the same temp, set from the factory. If they are staggered at different temps to come on seperate, you already have a tune.

Jack

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Thanks for the suggestion. I don't believe I can see the CAGS defeat plug without getting underneath the vehicle, but I know I have never gotten that 1-4 skip. But then again, I was NEVER getting the column locked either and assumed I had a CLB installed before I bought it until suddenly I am getting the column locking on me. So all bets are off......

As for the fans, I guess I will just have to check on that. I am assuming when I hook up the Diablo that it will tell me that?

At least I have 30 days to return it if I don't like it or it doesn't fit my needs. But I guess I shouldn't dawdle and get down to trying it out soon....

Thanks.

Rich

Start your car cold and let it sit and idle with the hood open. Watch and see if both fans kick on at the same time. When a tune is done, fans are staggered. Both fans coming on at once are a big current draw. Usually a 10 degree temp difference is set to kick em on seperately.

Let me know how the new toy works out.

Jack

I dunno..... The more I am thinking about this Diablo thing the less I am liking it. About the only reason I can think of that it would matter if the performance tune in the unit is done over a previous custom tune or the stock tune is because it must just adjust the parameters based on a percentage of what is already in the PCM. In other words: raise AFR 10 percent over what it is now and advance timing 5 percent. Something along that line. Rather then using absolute values of any sort. So the unit can't really be considered as "tuning" the vehicle at all. At least not in the sense of figuring out anything related to the working environment of the vehicle to try to determine what are BETTER values for certain settings.

The manual leaves a LOT to be desired if you are interested in knowing that the unit is actually doing. Pretty disappointing. And the advanced fine tuning features touted in the advertising says "for experienced tuners only" yet doesn't give any guidance whatsoever in how to become experienced using the thing.

I dunno..... I did want something a bit easier then a comprehensive tuning package like HPTuners or EFILive, but I really don't want something that would be rejected by the publishers of the Dummy's Guides for being too simplistic....... :nonod:

There just doesn't seem to be any MEAT on this plate.

Maybe I just need to plug it in and play with it, not doing anything possibly destructive at first. Maybe I'm being too hard on it just from my impression of the manual.......... :shrug01:

Well I hooked up the predator today just to play around with it and look at the options. I learned that selecting the TUNE option actually LOADS the tune with no options to select beforehand or a "are you sure" prompt. Oops!

But I just let it finish, to see how the process went, then reloaded the stock tune. I guess there is no harm doing it that way. It did give me quite a start to see "REDUCED POWER" displayed on the DIC during the tuning part, but I think that is normal. It went away after the ignition on/off cycles both on the tune part and during the reload.

I still have some stuff to learn, obviously, as there also appears to be a performance tune option that I need to figure out. Plus I need to figure out where all the options are for turning off the rear O2 sensor error detects. I did scan the error code stuff and it appears that my alternator related errors haven't come back yet. Maybe I chased that gremlin away.

Anyway, had lots of rain come through all day today, so I couldn't try out the tuning stuff to see what would happen. But I've still got a good three weeks to play around with it further.

Rich Z said:

It did give me quite a start to see "REDUCED POWER" displayed on the DIC during the tuning part, but I think that is normal. It went away after the ignition on/off cycles both on the tune part and during the reload.

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Yea, I've heard of it before, and when I messed with a Hypertech Programmer (same thing / different brand from yours) it said reduced engine power. I don't know why it does that but I've heard its normal.

Looks like we have a 40 percent chance of rain on Monday, so I may not be able to do much playing around with the Predator. I've been doing some reading up about the fine tuning aspects of the programmer. Someone posted kind of a step by step for fine tuning over on CF that will come in handy, I think. Depends on whether or not this thing is a "keeper". Most personal reviews I have read have been pretty positive, with only a few "so-so"s thrown in.

Of course, while on DiabloSports' website, I see that they have a new unit about to be released in third quarter of this year. Something called Trinity. So I expect there will be fire sales on the Diablo pretty shortly to clear current stock off of the shelves before the new unit is released. Never fails..... Just like whenever I buy ANYTHING at Sears, without FAIL it will go on sale within 2 weeks. :ack2:

But I'll just have to see if this unit does what I want for now as a low learning curve trainer on basic tuning for me.

Aw man, it's raining like HELL out right now. And the forecast for the next several days doesn't look real good. Now I can't bitch too much because we really need the rain, but why did the drought have to break RIGHT NOW? :banghead:

Rich Z said:

Aw man, it's raining like HELL out right now. And the forecast for the next several days doesn't look real good. Now I can't bitch too much because we really need the rain, but why did the drought have to break RIGHT NOW? :banghead:

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Dry as a bone in Central Florida. .:banghead:

Well one thing I am not thrilled about with this Predator is that you can't play with the tuning parameters without having it hooked up to the car. You can plug in the power pack to get it running in the house, I suppose to do transfers to and from the PC. I don't know, it seems to me it would be real handy to be able to adjust the AFR and timing off line and then hook it up to the car to download the tune.

Haven't had time to do much otherwise with it the last few days. Didn't get any rain today but the weather map was showing the potential nearly all day long coming in from the west. Yesterday we got a frog drowner and another good soaking late last night as well.

I'm glad I have the Mosquito Magnets cranked up........

Well Friday (yesterday) I hooked up the Predator and loaded in the performance tune. At least that's what I think I did. The terminology in the handheld is a little confusing about what they mean. At one point, a menu asks you to select between the "Performance Tune" and the "Stock Tune". I believe in this instance that the "Performance Tune" means a custom downloaded one and the "Stock Tune" means the performance tune that comes in the handheld. From that particular menu, if I try to select the "Performance Tune" is says one is not available. Yet when I select the "Factory Tune", I can then go to the fine tuning options of the tune itself.

But I'm making assumptions here. I wouldn't THINK the handheld would allow you to alter the "stock tune" that I just copied from my PCM into the handheld prior to loading the performance tune into my vehicle. At least I hope not!

Anyway, I guess I don't have a prior custom tune in my Z, because it seemed to run just fine after I uploaded the Predator tune. Seat of the pants felt stronger, but I didn't have any opportunity to really push it. But throttle response seemed real good. Gas mileage was at least as good as it was before, so I can't see where I really lost anything as a tradeoff.

And I did find the options to disable the read O2 sensors.

I'm looking more favorably at this gizmo now, although it does seem to have some "ease of use" issues. Some may just be my unfamiliarity with the way it works and I need to play with it some more. For instance, since I have that stock performance tune now in my vehicle, can I still adjust the parameters for AFR and timing and then load those changes into my PCM? Or do I have to pull that tune back out of my PCM first and reload my stock program back in. If I have to reload my stock program, this could get to be tedious REAL quick. It doesn't take long to save the stock PCM data, but it does seem like it. Guess I just hate waiting.....

Anyway, I'll play with it some more over the next few days. Wish their manual had a "how-to" section to tell you what some of the fine tuning options actually are and how to set them optimally. That info MUST be out there somewhere, I would guess.....

The only way that I would use a Predator to change any AF parameters is if i had a wide-band O2 sensor hooked up to the car. That way you would be able to see how any changes affect your AF ratio.

If you don't have access to a custom tuner, you can use the Predator to apply a "mail-order" tune to get you in the ballpark and then adjust it on the road with the wide-band O2 sensor hooked up. I've always preferred that method over a dyno becasue it seems more "real world" to me. There is one problem with this though. Running your car up to the redline in 4th gear can create excessive speed which law enforcement will frown on. hehehe

One of the advantages to using the Predator is that you can reflash back to stock if you need to get some warranty work done.

gary

Hold the phone!

Well I'm planning on taking my Z to the Chevy dealership tomorrow (Friday) so I figured it would be wise to load the factory tune back in from the Diablo Predator. So I just hook it up and run through the procedure. Went OK as far as I could tell, but it did seem to be making some different noises from the dash area then I remembered. Hmmm, the ANS light is staring me in the face. I turn off the ignition, turn it back on.... still there. I start the car, jeez louise, it's STILL there. But wait! There's more! NONE of the dash gauges are working now and the HUD is dead. :mah:

Now what? So I figured I would call Diablo. Of course I couldn't find their phone number in that "user manual" anywhere, so I had to go to their website to find. Talked to a tech support guy, and he says he never heard of that problem before. So he goes off phone to talk to someone else. After a few minutes, he comes back and tells me I have to disconnect the battery for 10 minutes and that will clear the problem.

Which it did, but I am certainly not happy about this. Who the heck wants to run the risk of having to disconnect their battery to reset the car everytime they use this darn thing? I certainly don't. It's not exactly the best thing since sliced bread, and seems to bite your hand every now and again. And if it will screw up my instrument panel, what ELSE does it have the potential to screw up? I have heard that it CAN blitz the radio too.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Well, I have 30 days to evaluate this thing and return it, so guess what? Yep, it goes back. I just don't need this kind of headache. So I'm back to square one to try to figure out a tuning option for my car........ :banghead:

Rich, have you still got a factory warranty?

exile said:

Rich, have you still got a factory warranty?

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On the Z? No, I don't. I bought it at the end of this past September and it already had something like 58K miles on it. I looked around for an extended warranty for a while, but after getting jerked around so much I just dropped that idea.

I thought you might not. If you're not worried about a warranty, why wouldn't you leave your HP program from the Diablo Predator on your car? If you had a warranty, then I understand why you would set back to factory, but without one, why do you set back? Curiosity only, I don't know why you would......Tom

Rich, this guy gets rave reviews on Z06Vette.com for extended warranties. If I didn't already buy one, I probably would have gone through him.

If you want a GM factory warranty
contact
Jason Walter: Sales Manager
Department: New Vehicles
Phone: 800-417-5162
Email at: jasonwalter@rossdowningchevrolet.com

You should make the trip down to Tampa for an FRCTom tune. We could all get together.

exile said:

I thought you might not. If you're not worried about a warranty, why wouldn't you leave your HP program from the Diablo Predator on your car? If you had a warranty, then I understand why you would set back to factory, but without one, why do you set back? Curiosity only, I don't know why you would......Tom

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Well about every account I have read anywhere suggests that you put the factory tune back in if you are having the car serviced. Can't say I have ever read WHY they suggest doing that, but since Diablo makes such a big deal out of verifying that you do not already have a custom tune in the care before applying the performance tune, I just assumed they had good reasons. My figuring was that it would be better to be safe then sorry. In other words, if I had left the performance tune in there, and a problem cropped up in someway related to the tuning, then I couldn't have rebutted the "I told you so" arguments I would get from Diablo.

In any event, I am being asked to bend over by the place I bought this thing from (concoursdirect.com). The fine print in their 30 day satisfaction guarantee is that I would have to pay a 20 percent restocking fee AND pay for their shipping to me, even though it was billed as free shipping when I bought it. OR I can return the unit for a replacement on the off chance this one might just be defective.