Carless driving ticket for acclerating to fast??

[MiamiMuscle]

I got a carless driving citation in miami beach 316.1925 for accelrating too fast even though i didnt even chirp the tires or exceeed the speed limit. The officer thought i was racing another car. I havent had a ticket in almost 2 years , should i take this to court or is it a losing battle?? I really dont wanna lose points, my insurance is high enough as it is. Im considering traffic school but u only get 5 lifetime and im on my 3rd already and would like to save it for an actual speeding offense.

 

[fletcher4u]

been there done that pay the ticket and go to traffic school to avoid the points . thats my:twocents: good luck

 

[C5Rick]

Why wait, go to school now. Isn't this ticket the same as a speeding ticket.

 

[Shadow]

Why wait, go to school now. Isn't this ticket the same as a speeding ticket.

NO! Although it's been a while, I believe it carries the same point value, most insurance companies view it differently.

Personally, I'd fight it, but then again, thats me. Speed? If I'm speeding, I'm speeding. Suck it up and pay it.

Careless is and always has been a "catch all" violation unfortunately used to liberally by some to lazy or pissed off to cite the correct statute

316.1925 Careless driving” clearly states:

“316.1925 Careless driving.--

(1) Any person operating a vehicle upon the streets or highways within
the state shall drive the same in a careful and prudent manner, having
regard for the width, grade, curves, corners, traffic, and all other
attendant circumstances, so as not to endanger the life, limb, or
property of any person. Failure to drive in such manner shall
constitute careless driving and a violation of this section.”

FLORIDA STATUTES
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0316/ch0316.htm

(taken from a google answer page)

Did your actions "endanger" anyone?

YOur case "should" be dismissed in court if not before.

Some jurisdictions will allow the state to amend the charge in court, others won't.

I'd give it a shot.

The biggest thing you have working against you is your previous driving history (based upon you statement).

That should only be viewed by the court during the "sentencing" phase if they get that far. Can't guarantee it always happens that way, but it should.

There are several good ticket mill firms in your area that specialize in traffic defense. Might want to contact one of them. The overall cost may end up the same (or higher) but the violations goes away, the points don't show and your resulting insurance premiums dont get jacked! Thats worth a lot more in the long run IMHO:thumbsup:

 

[MiamiMuscle]

Why wait, go to school now. Isn't this ticket the same as a speeding ticket.

its the same points as speeding, but i was thinking of taking it to court and maybe i can get off just paying the tick with no points. That way i can save the traffic school for a real speeding ticket. The judge might show mercy on me since i wasnt speeding and the officer made a judgement call that i was racing when in fact the other car made a right turn and just happened to accelereate fast also.

 

[MiamiMuscle]

NO! Although it carries the same pint value, the insurance companies view it differently.

Personally, I'd fight it, but then again, thats me. Speed? If I'm speeding, I'm speeding. Suck it up and pay it.

Careless is and always has been a "catch all" violation unfortunately used to liberally by some to lazy or pissed off to cite the correct statute

316.1925 Careless driving” clearly states:

“316.1925 Careless driving.--

(1) Any person operating a vehicle upon the streets or highways within
the state shall drive the same in a careful and prudent manner, having
regard for the width, grade, curves, corners, traffic, and all other
attendant circumstances, so as not to endanger the life, limb, or
property of any person. Failure to drive in such manner shall
constitute careless driving and a violation of this section.”

FLORIDA STATUTES
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0316/ch0316.htm

(taken from a google answer page)

Did your actions "endanger" anyone?

YOur case "should" be dismissed in court if not before.

Some jurisdictions will allow the state to amend the charge in court, others won't.

I'd give it a shot.

The biggest thing you have working against you is your previous driving history (based upon you statement).

That should only be viewed by the court during the "sentencing" phase if they get that far. Can't guarantee it always happens that way, but it should.

There are several good ticket mill firms in your area that specialize in traffic defense. Might want to contact one of them. The overall cost may end up the same (or higher) but the violations goes away, the points don't show and your resulting insurance premiums dont get jacked! Thats worth a lot more in the long run IMHO:thumbsup:

Thanks, i might just do that. In fact theres a place called ticket busters that a few buddys of mine have used to much success. I ll let u guys know how i do.

 

[Rich Z]

Sounds like a law that has too much leeway based on OPINION, rather that provable facts. I'd fight it. Ask the officer to provide FACTS proving your guilt.

 

[GentleBen]

This sure is discouraging to hear Since I am still waiting on the outcome of my speeding ticket(first hearing was yesterday)I have been making due with brief bursts of acceleration only, always under the speed limit. Now I find out I can get a ticket for that also.:banghead:

Starting to wonder what is the point of having a Vette. Just kidding I love me car but it sure is discouraging.

 

[MiamiMuscle]

Sounds like a law that has too much leeway based on OPINION, rather that provable facts. I'd fight it. Ask the officer to provide FACTS proving your guilt.

I want to fight it sooo bad!! But knowing how the system works, I whole heartidly feel its going to just be a losing battle for one simple fact. At the time i had a tuner pluged in and was datalogging and he asked what it was. When i told him it was a tuner and i was logging diagnostics, he wrote on the ticket in the comments "tuner in car- improper (something, i cant make out its not legible and then) racing". He told me i was lucky getting off with just careless and that he could of cited me for drag racing and a couple of other offenses. Lucky for me i kept my seltbelt on or that probably would have been another ticket also. The judge is just going to read tuner and racing and nothing i say after that is going to sway him, especially since racers, mostly sport bikes have been getting a really bad rep around here recently. The officer even told me to tack it to the track if i want to race and said his streets (even though ive been a resident of miami beach for almost 8 years now, but supposidly its his not ours) were not a drag strip. Then he gave me a lecture about deadly crashes, mostly bikes, occouring on an almost nightly basis, which i am more than aware of.

This incident combined with the ridiculous price of gas has just convinved me of what i need to do to avoid going thru this again and ruining my driving record. I am going to buy the best car cover money can buy and retiring my babay from daily use. Instead im going to look for a used or new econimical car or hybrid for my daily driver and only take the v8 to the track. This is my only choice since selling it is not an option. Now i just need to start looking into road courses open to the public in Florida, since ive never been to the track in my whole life. I know Morrosso has a road course, how difficult is it to get on and how expensive?? Also where else can i go?

 

[MiamiMuscle]

Oh by the way, as most of you guys know this was my first post on this forum. I just realized what a horrible first impression I must have made lol. I also have a confession to make, and Im sure Im going to recieve alot of flak for it, but honesty is the best policy and from the post Ive read so far, theres alot of open minded and tolerant people on this forum. ok here goes...

I dont own a Corvette and never have, I currently drive an 07 Dodge Charger srt8. So your probably thinking what the hell am i doing on a Vette forum, well soon as i got home after receiving the ticket, I googled it to see if i can get some sort of advice to determine if i stand any kind of fighting chance. For some reason this forum came up and I was really impressed by some of the responses and advice some of u have given to previous posts. Im a big fan of all muscle cars regardless of manufacturer and have always loved to own a vette, especially the sting ray and z06, but unfortuntaley my financial status has never allowed me to do so. Instead i decided to buy a used srt8 in black which i found at a reasonably cheap price last year and since it has four doors it is the perfect balance of muscle car and grocery getter, i also sold my hood scoop and rear spoiler a week after purchase to maintain a low profile thinking it would avoid negative attention from the cops. Since then the mod bug bit me and i have done everything from long tube headers, cams, heads, tuner and street drag radials. I have too much money invested to sell and the market for v8s is in shamble right now. I want to drive it, but the temptation to speed is too great and the consequences are starting to become too dangerous, especially knowing that you can be arrested at the discreption of the police officer and not only that, I dont want to put innocent people at risk for my adrenaline rush.

I really hope theres alternatives out there where i can get on the track at least twice a month for a reasonable cost, cars are my passion and i would probably become clinically depressed if i didnt hear that sweet purr from my Hemi every once in a while. If worst comes to worst i am even considered applying for citizenship in Germany as a worst case scenario. Its hard to concieve that in the land of the free, we have no open highways like the Autobahn. I love My country with all my heart, but we are sadly headed in the wrong direction and after visting Europe 3 years ago, I realized how far backwards our country is becoming. I met a girl from Estonia that used to live in Russia and she said that she was shocked at how little freedom we have after she vistied here for a whole month. She said that all her friends in Estonia think we are a bunch of braindead idiots that never question anything and go along with every stupid law our government comes up with. She even had a picture book of pictures she took of warnings on stuff like the Mcdonalds coffee "dangerous contents are hot" and vending machines "rocking machine can cause serious injury or death". I had to explain how these were put on these to avoid lawsuits and how The U.S. has more lawyers than the rest of the world combined.

50% of the Autobahn in germany is strictly enforced for speed limits(even more ruthlessly than some parts of Florida beleive it or not) but the system rocks, they base your ticket amount on your current base salary, so it affects everyone the same. Here a rich guy can get a ticket for speeding and its just chump change for him so essentially the rich has a free pass to speed, but in germany i saw a reallly really rich guy in a Porsche get a $20,000 ticket for tailgating lol. Whoever came up with that law is a genius, too bad we dont have that lawmaking common sense here! Instead of raising the penalties even more and making speeding violations a jailable offense that takes up even more space and cost the courts a ridicuous amount of taxpayer money when that moeny could be put to better use to deal with the current crisis, the state could subsidize more local tracks and sponsor driving clinics that teach people how to really drive instead of requiring people to memorize a test. I die a little bit inside everytime i hear a story of how police departments and private corporations are robbing its citizens of its hard earned money by decreasing timing on yellow lights on red light cameras to earn a profit, even when its been proven that this increases rear end accidents and a better solution is to actually increase yellows to prevent fatal crashes. This country is losing its middle class and the thing that made us so great,because politicians only look out for the interest of themselves and their rich buddies. Sorry if this has turned into a rant, but i needed to vent a little lol ok im ready to return to my modding state of mind lol

 

[Rich Z]

No man..... Data logging software is also used (often PRIMARILY used) for diagnostic purposes in order to gather data to FIX problems. Dealerships use the equivalent ALL of the time, and is considered to be invaluable for troubleshooting. If you have an issue that only shows up during acceleration, then data logging DURING acceleration is the only way to detect, then fix that problem. You were doing nothing more nor less than any competent dealership technician would do under the same circumstances.

Don't let some modern day Wyatt Earp wannabe take away your enjoyment of driving your car. Make him PROVE his claims in court. Not just toss out some half baked suppositions and assumptions that he can't back up with hard data. MAKE him show data indicating how rapidly you got from point A to point B and how fast you were going at the time. If he doesn't have PROOF, then he doesn't have a case. Matter of fact, since you were apparently data logging with your tuning software, YOU do, in fact have PROOF to show to the judge. That data should show everything you need in order to prove your case. It SHOULD show engine RPM, throttle positioning, and vehicle speed related to time. ALL of those factors will indicate your acceleration at the time the officer claims you were violating HIS (possibly flawed) interpretation of the law.

 

[MiamiMuscle]

No man..... Data logging software is also used (often PRIMARILY used) for diagnostic purposes in order to gather data to FIX problems. Dealerships use the equivalent ALL of the time, and is considered to be invaluable for troubleshooting. If you have an issue that only shows up during acceleration, then data logging DURING acceleration is the only way to detect, then fix that problem. You were doing nothing more nor less than any competent dealership technician would do under the same circumstances.

Don't let some modern day Wyatt Earp wannabe take away your enjoyment of driving your car. Make him PROVE his claims in court. Not just toss out some half baked suppositions and assumptions that he can't back up with hard data. MAKE him show data indicating how rapidly you got from point A to point B and how fast you were going at the time. If he doesn't have PROOF, then he doesn't have a case. Matter of fact, since you were apparently data logging with your tuning software, YOU do, in fact have PROOF to show to the judge. That data should show everything you need in order to prove your case. It SHOULD show engine RPM, throttle positioning, and vehicle speed related to time. ALL of those factors will indicate your acceleration at the time the officer claims you were violating HIS (possibly flawed) interpretation of the law.

You are probably right and I appreciate your advice, but I just dont have the heart to stomach this and i really cant afford court cost and fees if i end up losing. Plus if i dont win, im going to become so bitter at the system that theres no telling what i might do. Im just going to work with the system and do the whole driving school crap again and snooze thru those 4 hours and just be content with the peace of mind that my insurance wont go up. If all goes toplan. this will be the last time I get a ticket, since im going to be going green and slow, I refuse funding police departments that put revenue first over human compassion. I know its going to suck driving a lil v4 everyday and im probably going to have an estrogen imbalance as a result of it, but driving my v8 everyday is just going to be too much of a temptation to accelerate fast and nothisn sadder than a muscle car in the slow lane.

Can anyone please suggest some clubs or track nights, anything or anywhere i can speed worry free and legally. I'll sell my apartment and buy a vette if i have too!!! please, anyone????

 

[Z06 Rocket]

Don't let some modern day Wyatt Earp wannabe take away your enjoyment of driving your car.

What makes him a Wyatt Earp wannabe? Thats the kind of cop bashing that the other boards do... I am pretty disappointed to hear it from you Rich. His interpretation of the action was that it was serious enough to warrant a citation. Whay does he have to be some sort of gung ho cop to write it? The laws the law, no matter who you are, or what you drive. I am waiting to hear more about "He cited me because I was driving a Vette and he was jealous"... Oh wait, the poster headed that one off by clearing up the air and telling us he had a Hemi instead of a Vette... I think the original poster kept it very civil, yet you took it to a new level....... :thumbsdown:

Make him PROVE his claims in court. Not just toss out some half baked suppositions and assumptions that he can't back up with hard data. MAKE him show data indicating how rapidly you got from point A to point B and how fast you were going at the time. If he doesn't have PROOF, then he doesn't have a case.

His observations are his proof. There is no requirement or law or even a recomendation by the courts to say that the violation, no matter what the violation is, has to be on video. Thats the only HARD PROOF I can think of you demanding he show the original poster. he officer took an oath to uphold the law. I know there are bad apples in every job in the world, but just because the officer wrote a citation doesn't mean he's corrupt, or out to get the average joe, or trying to make a quota.... for cripes sake... It gets friggin old.. REAL old!!!

 

[Lady N]

OBEY THE LAW

THE LAWS WERE MADE TO PROTEC US . IN YOUR CASE GET A LAWYER AND GET HIS ADVISED AND WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE PUSHING THE CAR AGAIN , BE READY FOR ANY CONSEQUENCES. THERE ARE TRACK IN FLORIDA WHERE YOU CAN PUSH 150 OR BETTER AND THERE WILL BE NO TICKETS . AND REMENBER PEOPLE WRECKLESS DRIVING CAN BE CROSSING YOUR LANE AND GETTING BACK INTO YOUR LANE.CHECK OUT MOROSSO TRACK NOT FAR FROM YOU

 

[MiamiMuscle]

THE LAWS WERE MADE TO PROTEC US . IN YOUR CASE GET A LAWYER AND GET HIS ADVISED AND WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE PUSHING THE CAR AGAIN , BE READY FOR ANY CONSEQUENCES. THERE ARE TRACK IN FLORIDA WHERE YOU CAN PUSH 150 OR BETTER AND THERE WILL BE NO TICKETS . AND REMENBER PEOPLE WRECKLESS DRIVING CAN BE CROSSING YOUR LANE AND GETTING BACK INTO YOUR LANE.CHECK OUT MOROSSO TRACK NOT FAR FROM YOU

I accelerated from 0-30 at 2:30am with not a single pedestrian anywhere near me in the middle lane of a 3 lane road. Soon as i reached 30 i let off or else he would of gotten me for speeding. Is this considered pushing my car and would i have recieved a verbal warning if he hadnt seen the tuner connected to my car i was using for data logging. Was it neccessary to write "tuner in car-racing" and for those non believers i will scan the ticket and post it, i am not trying to make cops look bad. I admit to doing a lot of things i should have gotten tickets for but this was definatley not one of them. also if i did something so bad why did the officer follow me for 5 blocks before pulling me over, did he expect i was going to speed and when i didnt pulled me over anyways, because thats the impressions i got.

Your right many laws are made to protect us, but many are also written under the disguise of saftey but in reality are created to generate revenue. Im a firm beleiver that if the gov passed a law where all ticket revenue was invested back into the community to build safer roads and create safe driving programs like in germany, non of this would happen and cops would instead focus on the truly dangerous drivers posing a legitimate risk to drivers and themselves.

 

[Lady N]

YOU WHEN 5 BLOCK B-4 HE PULLED YOU OVER BECAUSE HE WAS LOOKING FOR ANY SIGN OF DUI ALSO HE PROBABLY WAS LOOKING FOR A SAFE PLACE FOR BOTH YOU AND HIM ,MIAMI HAS BAD PLACES . AT 2.30 AM THE ARE LOOKINF FOR ANY MINOR INFRACTION TO PULL ANY THERE ARE TO MANY DRUNK DRIVERS OUT THERE AT THAT TIME OF THE NITE. IT IS ALL FOR ARE OWN GOOD. MY KID WAS GIVING 5 TICKETS B-4 HE LEARN HIS LESSON . MY ADVISED GET A TRAFFIC LAWYER ADVISED. ALSO CHECK THE TRACK IN HOMESTEAD . OR THERE IS SOUTH BEACH AND CORAL GABLES WHERE YOU JUST PARADE AT 10 MILES AN HOURS TO CHECK OUT THE SITES AND SHOW OFF YOUR CAR. DONT FORGET THE MIRACLE MILE. :lmao::lmao:

 

[Shadow]

Lot of good info here and I thank the OP for "clearing the air:thumbsup:"

I too am a fan of any well built muscle car, regardless of age, make or model. Hell, I even appreciate some of the ricers when they're done right:thumbsup:

I don't want to see "cop bashing" either. I don't think that's where Rich was coming from, regardless of how it sounded. I've known him for some time now and spent a decent bit of time talking with him in person. There's not a cop hater bone in his body.

If you read some of my responses to police related matters you'd think I was adamantly opposed to the police and authority. Instead it's 180 degrees from it. But I do believe in doing the job correctly and professionally and I'll be the first one to nail a renegade offier. No use for them at all:thumbsdown:

I'll also be the 1st one out of the car to assist you in an arrest when you're on a lonly stretch of highway, to slow down and check on you when you by yourself on a stop or FIR, and to come to your defense when some citizen starts running thier yap about things they know nothing about:thumbsup:

Speaking from many years of experience, as several have mentioned, there are bad apples everywhere. We have them as do doctors, lawyers and well, you name it?

And again as mentioned, the "proof" is in fact the officers observations. I'd almost like to see mandatory video cams in all partol cars and have the tapes made part of the ticket package.

1) The first thing it would do is rid us of the BS tickets and the "trumped up" charges (yes, they do exist albeit rarely).
2) Next it would reduce the back log in the courts. When people know they are on tape, it's higly unlikely they're going to continue to desire a court date just to have thier asses handed to them:lmao:

3) On the occasion that a driver is innocent of the charge, which "IF" the "facts" are as the OP states, then that too would be immediately evident.

Easy cases to dispose of from either side and less wasted time and officer OT. That goes more toward keeping the budgets in line:thumbsup:

The "tuner" is as Rich said and you can bring that "fact" up in court if the tuner is brought into question. Here's the rub...if I were the judge or magistrate, the next question would be....why are you "testing" your car on a public street. I'd have to go back and review the chapter, but that may be a part of the "racing" statute. If so, you're screwed again.

In this matter, I'd either do as you plan (not a bad plan either:thumbsup or hire one of the ticket lawyers to handle it for you and move on.

BTW...I love the Hemi's:thumbsup:If I could justify one as a DD I'd have one. Lots of room, good looks and reasonable performance...and you can actually get shit in and out of them without being a contortionist:rofl1:

Lets keep things on point please, stay focused on the facts and keep the opinions to those that can either be supported or at least keep them civil:thumbsup:

And please, no cop bashing:NoNo:LEts leave that to some of the other websites...they're better at it:lmao::lmao:

 

[Rich Z]

Don't let some modern day Wyatt Earp wannabe take away your enjoyment of driving your car.

What makes him a Wyatt Earp wannabe? Thats the kind of cop bashing that the other boards do... I am pretty disappointed to hear it from you Rich. His interpretation of the action was that it was serious enough to warrant a citation. Whay does he have to be some sort of gung ho cop to write it? The laws the law, no matter who you are, or what you drive. I am waiting to hear more about "He cited me because I was driving a Vette and he was jealous"... Oh wait, the poster headed that one off by clearing up the air and telling us he had a Hemi instead of a Vette... I think the original poster kept it very civil, yet you took it to a new level....... :thumbsdown:

Calling into question the actions of a cop is not cop bashing. It is expressing my opinions of the details that were provided here. Which, if I'm not mistaken, I am fully entitled to do. Please correct me if I am mistaken.... Granted, I am only hearing one side of the story, but in any court (official or otherwise) a judge in a similar circumstance would preface the judgement rendered in a similar case with "lacking any contrary evidence...".

So are you SERIOUSLY trying to feed me the line that cops don't get attitudes that are unwarranted and/or misplaced? That they don't make MISTAKES in interpretting a situation? That they are not human and have bad days which cause them to make bad calls or even MALICIOUS calls when enforcing laws? Well if that is the case, then I fear you are severely limited in your perspective and interpretation of the REAL world.

The "evidence" presented here was that someone merely accelerated up to the speed limit. He states he did not burn rubber or exceed the speed limit. He stated that he had a tuner attached to his car and the officer made a judgement largely based on that particular circumstantial evidence. Quite frankly, how can anyone accelerate up to ANY legal speed limit in a dangerous or careless fashion without burning rubber? For that matter, what the hell does "careless" even mean in this instance? The driver could care less how quickly he got to the speed limit? Well hell, that covers nearly ALL of us every time we drive.

Make him PROVE his claims in court. Not just toss out some half baked suppositions and assumptions that he can't back up with hard data. MAKE him show data indicating how rapidly you got from point A to point B and how fast you were going at the time. If he doesn't have PROOF, then he doesn't have a case.

His observations are his proof. There is no requirement or law or even a recomendation by the courts to say that the violation, no matter what the violation is, has to be on video. Thats the only HARD PROOF I can think of you demanding he show the original poster. he officer took an oath to uphold the law. I know there are bad apples in every job in the world, but just because the officer wrote a citation doesn't mean he's corrupt, or out to get the average joe, or trying to make a quota.... for cripes sake... It gets friggin old.. REAL old!!!

I call BS on that one. No law gives the power to the enforcer of such law that of a "can do no wrong" level of competence. Any cop who causes someone to have to appear in court because of their "observation" should be able to PROVE their case. Saying "it appeared to me" or "my observation indicated" is NOT proof, and more or less then the defendant making the same claim in their defense.

I believe that ANY defendant in court has the right to require PROOF from the prosecution. Proof is what makes a court of law work the way it is supposed to. Hearsay or ad hoc observations and assumptions have no place in a court where someone is on trial for an offense of any sort, whether it is civil or criminal in nature.

And as for the "oath to uphold the law", certainly you are not suggesting that this is some sort of commandment from GOD that absolutely prevents an officer from stretching the truth or making a mistake in judgement? Are you seriously suggesting that each and every officer of the law who takes such an oath absolutely and 100 percent without fail upholds that oath?

Hell, I would highly suspect that each and everyone here at one time or another has been subjected to the actions of an officer of the law that were not exactly in line with their "oath" and quite likely the results of some personal issue that was clouding their professional judgement.

This is NOT cop bashing. This is DISCUSSING the issue of anyone in the capacity to hold that trust of the people to enforce the laws evenly, fairly, and LEGALLY to do so as a professional and fails to do so based on some likely personal issue, misinterpretation of the law, or otherwise over extend their authority to the detriment of those people they are entrusted to serve and protect.

Sorry, but I do not give cops (or anyone, for that matter) a carte blanche merely because of the job they have taken. I do recognize the trials and tribulations the job entails for them, but that does NOT excuse any that flaunt the power of their job and lose focus of the responsibility that authority places on them.

If YOU consider that as cop bashing, then that is YOUR observation and opinion, not necessarily having anything at all to do with FACT. I'm simply exercising MY right to call a spade a spade, based on the evidence I have viewed. You may interpret it differently, and more power to you if that is the case. But don't come here on THIS site bashing on ME because of YOUR own contrary opinion.

 

[Rich Z]

The "tuner" is as Rich said and you can bring that "fact" up in court if the tuner is brought into question. Here's the rub...if I were the judge or magistrate, the next question would be....why are you "testing" your car on a public street. I'd have to go back and review the chapter, but that may be a part of the "racing" statute. If so, you're screwed again.

Actually when the dealerships put on the Tech2 on the diagnostic port on your car in order to diagnose problems, that is EXACTLY what they do. They take the car out on public roads for a test drive. This is not anything unusual or abnormal at all. I mean, how else would you do it? If you come in to a dealership claiming you have a miss or stumble during acceleration, how else would they diagnose the problem?

Every time I have had something fixed on any of my vehicles or modifications done, I fully believe that my car was afterwards taken out on public roads for a "test drive". Which was to do what? And whether the tech used the Tech 2, HPtuners, EFIlive or their own experience base to try to diagnose a problem, the methodology and the public roads used during the exercise were the same. Hell, I've used HPtuners to track down an intermittent problem with my MAF and IAT sensors. And yes it was done on public roads and NO I was not violating any laws at the time I was doing the troubleshooting. Actually there really is no other way in order to do that sort of troubleshooting.

So why would someone using any sort of tuner be considered as de facto evidence of wrong doing?

 

[85vette]

All I can say is take it to court. I'd like to see how this one turns out. But, as others have said, get a lawyer or be prepared to pay up to $500.00 in court cost, plus the original fine. I imagine the cost will be about the same either way.