• Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.

Someone Needs To Explain This One

als2052

Road Trip!
For the upcoming Dimmitt show, they have combined a People's Choice with a Judged show. The way the flyer reads, once the People's Choice ballots are in they are going to pick the top 5 cars picked and then judge them. The way I see it, nothing has been accomplished by this. Why not simply judge the cars with "judges" and forget the People's Choice? The People's Choice part is what is creating all of the hearburn...
 
People's Choice or Judge show will always make some one unhappy.
Neither is a better way to choose a winner. Go and have fun and if you win than more power to you.

Is a car better because
it is clean?
has lots of mods?
Is never driven?
Stock? Daily
Stock never driven?
Daily driver with mods (has wear, but not abused)


My point is not matter how winners are picked (judged, people's choice) it is still a human's opinion.
 
I kinda have to agree with Yellow but definately see Als' point as well.

If the do away with the peoples choice, then it's totally up to the subjective personalities, likes and dislikes of the judges.

At least with a peoples choice, it breaks it down to a chosen few to be judged. Here's the rub...peoples choice can is sometimes is, skewed by politics, numbers and other factors.

So, as long as you have the human factor involved, no one's really going to be totally happy.

The only way I can see to remedy the situation would be to articulate the judging requirements specifically so everyone knows whats expected.

Define stock specifically.
Define modified specifically.
Access a certain point scale to specific mod sections (ie: engine mods, show mods, etc) and make every one aware of the breakdown.

In the end, everyone knows what the judges will be looking for and what each mod class can bring:thumbsup:

Even with all that BS, the bottom line is, there will still be humans doing the judging and that will always involve subjectivity.

Just go have some fun:dancer01:
 
Should just make a committee of voters. one group that would do peoples choice and another group to do the regular show. Then combine votes to see if someone wins. I see peoples choice shows at hooters a lot. I dont get upset cause I just wasted 10 bucks, the money went to a good cause. What upsets me is all the old drunk guys who come out with oooold cars, that look immaculate outside, but the interior is torn to crap and the motor..well they never wanna show the rusty motor to the rest of the car people.

Now to my point. usually the bigger club will be the voters, and the top dog trophy alllllways seems to go to one of "their" club members, no one outside of the club.

But i dont get my panties in a bundle cause i get to hang out with the guys and make fun of the plastic pig cobra lady...and again the money goes to someone who can use it.
 
I think I need to get some sort of flyer to put on my car at shows that reads something like.....

No matter how YOU judge my car, I still like it better than YOURS any way.....

:hehehe:

Oh yeah, and with a byline of....

If you find any food items under the seats while you are inspecting my car, please have the courtesy to remove those items for me.....

:lmao:
 
My humble .02

Personally, I agree with all of ya's on selected points.
I personally like to Show my car, but could honestly do without the judging aspect. The Only reason I pay the fee is so that I can park next to friends in the better areas, and to get a free shirt:hehehe:.

People's Choice or Judge show will always make some one unhappy.
Neither is a better way to choose a winner.
So very true.. There's ALWAYS going to be someone left upset! At the few shows that I have attended, I've witnessed people getting upset with the end results.:nonod:

At least with a peoples choice, it breaks it down to a chosen few to be judged. Here's the rub...peoples choice can is sometimes is, skewed by politics, numbers and other factors.
I like this idea,"Peoples Choice". It gives the Judges select cars to judge.

"The rub"...peoples choice isn't the only one skewed with politics, numbers and other factors. Imo, so are judged shows.
NTM, judged shows are or can be skewed by Bias, friendships etc.

Now to my point. usually the bigger club will be the voters, and the top dog trophy alllllways seems to go to one of "their" club members, no one outside of the club.
Exactly! But, if the final cars to be judged are picked by the people, this may greatly reduce the possibility of the above mentioned from happening.

I think I need to get some sort of flyer to put on my car at shows that reads something like.....

No matter how YOU judge my car, I still like it better than YOURS any way.....
:hehehe:
:lmao: This is my feeling exactly!!!:thumbsup:

And like everyone here has said...Have Fun!!!
 
Best idea

As one of the "judges" let me try to help. As everyone knows Peoples Choice is the easiest way to have a car show. The problem is when a large club shows up they generally win. In fact two years ago some "people" actually took our ballots and made copies of them to "stuff" the box! We then started "marking" them to prevent this. Secondly, we thought if we took the top 5 and then went out to actually make sure these were viable candidates for trophies and not more "stuffing". We did this last year and it helped but certainly no solution. As for actually judging the cars that would be the best solution but as some write here, they get offended when someone actually finds something wrong with their car! We are not a large club and for us to go out and judge 150 plus cars would take more time than anyone there would put up with. Therefore we have to go with "Peoples Choice". We would gladly entertain any other suggestions. But I've been putting on car shows since 1967 from NCRS to NCCC and all else and for those that are serious trophies seekers see the above, for those that are just there for the camaraderie, see ya in September. Oh, and by the way for those that only support charties, be advised that BACC has always given portions of all events to the Tampa Childrens Home and the Wounded Warriors Cause. We have quite a few "wounded warriors" in our club and we feel that is a worthy cause.
 
Quote (Pres):
As one of the "judges" let me try to help. As everyone knows Peoples Choice is the easiest way to have a car show. The problem is when a large club shows up they generally win.

You are 100% correct that "Peoples Choice" awards are the easiest way to handle a car show. We at TampaBay Vettes do this for one of the biggest shows in Florida (+400 Corvettes). The only problem is that the bigger clubs do vote for themselves and we (TBV) have been guilty of that on shows we have attended also. We normally bring 30 corvettes and win the club participation award too, (we have 225 members as of August 1st). I think its all a matter of what you like with your Corvette and picking the right show for your car,(Peoples Choice or Judged Shows). To myself its not the winning, but meeting new people, clubs, seeing old friends and if I win that is a plus and a great afternoon.

Thanks for listening!
:hehehe: Jim :hehehe:
 
.
I personally like to Show my car, but could honestly do without the judging aspect. The Only reason I pay the fee is so that I can park next to friends in the better areas, and to get a free shirt:hehehe:.

Aint' that the truth! I always feel funny signing the "rat Rod" up for a "judged" show:rofl1:(Actually placed Rat Rod in the category a time or 2).

So very true.. There's ALWAYS going to be someone left upset! At the few shows that I have attended, I've witnessed people getting upset with the end results.:nonod:

I've seen people whining like children over the "unfairness" of the outcome:thumbsdown: Pathetic IMO:( For me, that kind of anger really ruins the show.

I like this idea,"Peoples Choice". It gives the Judges select cars to judge.

:thumbsup:It's not a bad idea:thumbsup:

"The rub"...peoples choice isn't the only one skewed with politics, numbers and other factors. Imo, so are judged shows.
NTM, judged shows are or can be skewed by Bias, friendships etc.

Absolutely!! It's just not a science:rofl1:

Exactly! But, if the final cars to be judged are picked by the people, this may greatly reduce the possibility of the above mentioned from happening.

I think his concern is that if the larger club in attendance sways the vote, then regardless of judging, the winner will still likely be someone from that club. If that's what he meant, I think he's correct.

:lmao: This is my feeling exactly!!!:thumbsup:

I like the idea:lmao:

And like everyone here has said...Have Fun!!!

Man! Ain't that the bottom line?! It's the only reason I go. Friends, cars and good causes!:thumbsup:

I've got a box full of "trophies" from Ronnie Setzers saturday night "show" You got one for showing up and putting up with his loud mouth on the speaker:rolleyes::rofl1:

As far as judging, again, if you're a serious trophy hound (no problem with that), I"d skip the local shows and only attend NCRS and similar shows where the judging parameters are know in advance.

Local shows, I don't care who does them, will likely always be skewed one way or another. A local judged show? By the judges opinions. Peoples Choice...obviously by the "people" in attendance.

We would gladly entertain any other suggestions

Here's one.

There was a show recently (non-vette/ricer show IIRC) held locally.

They did the following:

Stated judging parameters in writing well in advance of the show.

Specifically defined the classes (stock, modified, custom, engine, body, etc).

For the "modified" classes, they broke down each modification category and asessed point to each possible mod (ie: headers=x points, turbo/blowers=X points, custom paint=X points, and so on.)

In doing this, everyone knew what they had coming in!

If you were showroom stock, you didn't compete with highly modified cars.

Your showroom stock Z06 wouldn't compete with a blown custom C4, and the C4 wouldn't compete with a concours quality C2 that you could eat off of!!

The classes were better defined, car's weren't just lumped together, and the point scale was pretty specific. Other than cleanliness, there was little wiggle room for judges bias.

You could and I believe should, still have a "PEOPLES CHOICE" award, regardless of the potential bias:thumbsup: It's just a cool award!

Would the above end the bickering? Probably not. But it's give people less to complain about:lmao:

be advised that BACC has always given portions of all events to the Tampa Childrens Home and the Wounded Warriors Cause

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Aside from the kids hospitals (St. Jude, All Childrens, etc, this group is one of my favorite groups or support! Thanks for supporting them:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Quote (Pres):
As one of the "judges" let me try to help. As everyone knows Peoples Choice is the easiest way to have a car show. The problem is when a large club shows up they generally win....We normally bring 30 corvettes and win the club participation award too...Jim

As it should be:thumbsup:Rewards for the fruits of your labor in building and maintaining a club:thumbsup:

I and a few others here, register with this website as our club affiliation. One day, we'll screw up and actually get enough people to do it and win one:lmao::lmao:

To myself its not the winning, but meeting new people, clubs, seeing old friends and if I win that is a plus and a great afternoon
.

YOu hit it right on the head brother!:thumbsup:
 
Rules?

Quite a few people writing have suggested that some sort of manual or printed rules should be posted prior to a show. BACC has been a member of NCCC since 1970 and closely follow the NCCC rule book. To find out how we judge and classify go to: www.corvettesnccc.org , scroll down to "By-Laws Standing Rules & Competition Manual. Click on Chapter #7 - Concours and there you have it. Damn somebody actual put it in writing. What a novel idea!!! :IThankYou:
 
Can't get the page to load:(

Get to the by laws section, but when you click on rules...nothing happens:(
 
As one of the "judges" let me try to help. As everyone knows Peoples Choice is the easiest way to have a car show. The problem is when a large club shows up they generally win.

I vote for cars I like rather they are in my club or not. There is a C1 I always vote for and he is not in my club. Natutrally if a club has the majority of the cars in a show, some of them will win. Last years winner of the UCP had no Club Affiliation.

Oh, and by the way for those that only support charties, be advised that BACC has always given portions of all events to the Tampa Childrens Home and the Wounded Warriors Cause. We have quite a few "wounded warriors" in our club and we feel that is a worthy cause.

I have given a number of times to the Tampa Childrens Home (as I grew up right down the street). :thumbsup: Thanks to club for donating to this charity.

And I am especially happy about the bloodmobile this year at your show .

I spend my year raising money For St. Jude Children's hosptial. Corvettes from several sates meet in Memphis in Oct :yesnod:
 
I applaud BACC for trying to find middle ground in this "People's Choice" Vs "Judged Shows" :beatdeadhorse5: issue.
 
Is that the Childrens' home on Memorial Highway? If so, I patrolled that area for several years. It's was a very sad environment back then:(
I hope for the kids sake it's changed for the better:thumbsup: I know whatever you guys and gals do to help it will make it that way:thumbsup:

I used to support just St. judes, but in the past year or so, I've decided to keep my monthly support there as well as start doing more to support the childrens hospitals here locally. Still do my monthly donation to St. Judes though, they do a great job.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Also, the Wounded Warriors Foundation is close to my heart as is ANY benefit for a fallen LEO/Firefighter/Paramedic.
 
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Maybe the ballot should show the voter's club affiliation as well as the affiliation of the car being "judged" to avoid ballot stuffing as was alleged in earlier post.

And BTW, kudos to BACC as well as the other clubs out there for their charitable endeavors...
 
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