30 over law gets maybe a killer.

[Suicide King]

This one's only for bikes but if it passes sports cars will be next.

I don't think it will pass but look out if it does.:thumbsdown:



HB 137 2008
CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
hb0137-00
Page 1 of 2
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S
A bill to be entitled 1
An act relating to offenses committed while operating a 2
motorcycle; creating s. 316.1926, F.S.; providing 3
additional penalties for certain offenses committed by a 4
person operating or in actual physical control of a 5
motorcycle; requiring that the person be taken into 6
custody; providing for seizure and forfeiture of the 7
motorcycle; providing for revocation of the person's 8
privilege to operate a motorcycle; providing an effective 9
date. 10
11
Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Florida: 12
13
Section 1. Section 316.1926, Florida Statutes, is created 14
to read: 15
316.1926 Motorcycle offenses.-- 16
(1) When a law enforcement officer charges a person with 17
reckless driving in violation of s. 316.192 or exceeding the 18
speed limit by 30 miles per hour or more in violation of s. 19
316.183(2), s. 316.187, or s. 316.189 while operating or in 20
actual physical control of a motorcycle, the officer shall 21
arrest the person, take him or her into custody, and seize the 22
motorcycle, which shall be subject to forfeiture under the 23
Florida Contraband Forfeiture Act. 24
(2) Upon conviction, in addition to any other penalty 25
provided by law, the court shall revoke the person's 26
authorization and privilege to operate a motorcycle for a period 27
HB 137 2008
CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
hb0137-00
Page 2 of 2
F L O R I D A H O U S E O F R E P R E S E N T A T I V E S
of 10 years and order the person to surrender his or her 28
driver's license. 29
(a) If the person holds a Class A, Class B, or Class C 30
driver's license, the department shall issue a replacement 31
license, valid for the remainder of the person's unexpired 32
license period, without the endorsement to operate a motorcycle. 33
(b) If the person holds a Class E driver's license that is 34
not restricted to motorcycle operation only, the department 35
shall issue a replacement license, valid for the remainder of 36
the person's unexpired license period, without the authorization 37
to operate a motorcycle. 38
(3) Revocation of the privilege to operate a motorcycle 39
under this section shall not prohibit or restrict the issuance 40
or renewal of a driver's license for purposes other than the 41
operation of a motorcycle. 42
Section 2. This act shall take effect October 1, 2008. 43

 

[coolassbrad]

did this law pass? looks like we'll see more high speed chases:dancer01:i love a good chase as much as the next guy unfortunately they will be at the expense of some kids life.but hey the state will have bikes to auction off and with the money they can vote themselves a raise and get a pat on the back:ack2:

i love my country but fear my government

 

[Rich Z]

I'm not real fond of forfeiture clauses in laws. It tends to turn law enforcement into the appearance of being mercenaries, able to reap the "rewards" of the booty they can confiscate in the performance of their duties. In a perfect world, this would be no problem, since we ALL want to see the bad guys caught and punished, but it certainly raises the possibility of abuses and corruption. The picture becomes blurred when the definition of "bad guy" just might include YOU.

And it certainly does twist the Fourth Amendment quite a bit in order to put that foot into the shoe....

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Who decides what is "reasonable"? Is an arbitrarily chosen speed limit really grounds to forcibly take someone's personal property from them (you will have to go to court and WIN in order to get it BACK), then auction it off to use the proceeds towards the enforcement agency that made the arrest? Will promotions then be made (further monetary incentive) based on the officers who were able to bring in the most loot, er confiscations? Is putting a monetary incentive towards law enforcement in this manner really a good idea? Do we really want to turn law enforcement into a financial incentive based business? Would anyone REALLY want to live in an area where a substantial portion of the law enforcement budget is paid for mostly by goods confiscated from the population?

Hell, if you are going 35 mph over the speed limit and find a cop on your tail, are YOU going to pull over knowing you will be going to jail and your vehicle will be forcibly taken from you? Yeah, high speed chases will be the rule rather than the exception. The cost of voluntarily surrendering will be WAY too high. Getting a hefty ticket and fine is one thing, but if the stakes are too high, the rules of engagement will change.

IMHO, of course.

 

[Shadow]

did this law pass? looks like we'll see more high speed chases:dancer01:i love a good chase as much as the next guy unfortunately they will be at the expense of some kids life.but hey the state will have bikes to auction off and with the money they can vote themselves a raise and get a pat on the back:ack2:

i love my country but fear my government

:iagree:

We've gotten stupid with our laws! We need to vote or throw these kneejerk knuckleheads out of office and get a new crop:thumbsup:

I agree that sport bikes are becoming a problem, and that they are thier own worse enemy, but this little piece of legislation sets a terrible precedent.
1st, the term "shall" removes all discretion from the officer. It also allows the officer to blame his/her unreasonable actions on the state

And where did this arbitrary "30" come from? What makes it so much more deadly than 25 or 28?

If this legislation is allowed to pass and enter statute, it's only a matter of time before you and I feel the pinch of big brother in the drivers seat.

This is just where other bad legislation came from.:thumbsdown:

And yes, with the threat of jail, impoundment and siezure, there will be more unnecessary pursuits for "traffic" offenses which unduly endanger the public

Of course, they'll now be pursuing for "criminal" charges, which will make it ok

 

[Shadow]

I'm not real fond of forfeiture clauses in laws. It tends to turn law enforcement into the appearance of being mercenaries, able to reap the "rewards" of the booty they can confiscate in the performance of their duties.

Look at the "DARE" cars and some of the other LE vehicles on the road. It's long been the case that in many jurisdictions, if an officers "snagged" a specifically interesting vehicle that could be used on the street, it went to them, marked and the works.

 

[85vette]

Our "Dare" car is a Cadillac Escalade. And it says on the rear fenders " This vehicle was seized from a drug dealer". Also, some years ago the Florida Highway Patrol had a C4 that was seized from a car dealership (for rolling back the mileage) and painted the traditional black and yellow FHP colors. The investigator in that case was awarded use of the Vette to patrol I-75. Now that had to be a blast! (Although I wouldn't want to do thirty or forty traffic stops a day in one) I can just see the look on some guys face when he looks in the rearview and sees an LED lightbar lit up on top of what he thought was a black Corvette!

 

[SteveK]

This is exactly why OJ drove him White Bronco at a slow pace. It didn't want to have to surrender it. :hehehe:

 

[vett boy]

This is exactly why OJ drove him White Bronco at a slow pace. It didn't want to have to surrender it. :hehehe:

Ya know I watched OJ live on CNN ,he was driving in the direction of his home at 55 mph (actually he was in the back seat ) by the time CNN reported it on the eve news it was a high speed get-away.:banghead:I'm no fan of OJ's for the record.

As far as the new potential law,I agree it'll increase high speed chases and will not solve the problem.

 

[Suicide King]

Right now it is only a House Bill, so don't bother writing to the state senator, just write your state representative. If your representative is Lopez-Cantera assure him you plan to vote against him in the next election.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Legislators...ab=Legislators&CFID=53946441&CFTOKEN=28914917

I’ve already seen a blue Yamaha R1 race bike cop on the road pulling other riders over. They never knew what hit them.
I don’t know how they got it but they have a few cool looking cop bikes now.

I also think an SUV doing 30 over will do more damage then a bike but then again, you don’t see that many SUV’s out running the cops with the exception of O.J.

If this law passes you WILL see more deaths just because they WILL run for the fear of losing their ride, jail time and maybe their job.

 

[Rich Z]

I think the real sticking point is that the difference in just 5 mph based on what an officer says and what the driver says can make such a substantial difference in the penalty. Can a pissed off cop who WANTS your vehicle stretch the truth and there will be NOTHING you can do about it? Hmmm....

Does Florida want to get the reputation of Louisiana? -> http://www.usmarshals.gov/district/la-m/assets/index.html

A website solely to auction off confiscated assets? A LE forfeiture style Ebay? Anyone else get an acrid taste in their mouth thinking about this? Maybe even hints of the USA national anthem being played in the background way off key?

I've heard a bunch of horror stories about that state and I REFUSE to drive through it.

Interestingly enough, there is a website dedicated to the forfeiture laws -> http://www.fear.org/

 

[Suicide King]

I think the real sticking point is that the difference in just 5 mph based on what an officer says and what the driver says can make such a substantial difference in the penalty. Can a pissed off cop who WANTS your vehicle stretch the truth and there will be NOTHING you can do about it? Hmmm....

Does Florida want to get the reputation of Louisiana? -> http://www.usmarshals.gov/district/la-m/assets/index.html

A website solely to auction off confiscated assets? A LE forfeiture style Ebay? Anyone else get an acrid taste in their mouth thinking about this? Maybe even hints of the USA national anthem being played in the background way off key?

I've heard a bunch of horror stories about that state and I REFUSE to drive through it.

Interestingly enough, there is a website dedicated to the forfeiture laws -> http://www.fear.org/

WOW!!! MINE, MINE MINE if they want it. It's getting scary out there and if you don't know the laws YOU'RE DONE.

 

[Shadow]

There are some rather easy fixes to thwart the forfieture laws. The first is place the vehicle in the name of two(2) people (spouse for example) and make it "and" on the registration.

The othere is to keep a HUGE lien on it for more than the vehicles worth.

The state has to pay off the lien before the it can take the car (IIRC-I'd have to go back and review).

A race bike cop in Tampa? Where? I know most of the guys (trained many of them) and usuaaly keep up on this chit? Guess I missed one.

I can tellyou this though. Unless the departments are willing to spend the $$$$ for initial and remedial training it really requires to operate a crotch rocket as you describe at high speed (ie-Superbike School or such course), they're asking for more officers killed and injured

I trained until I retired from the HCSO. Was in charge of the west side unit and training as well.

Most of the guys we had riding, we're not all that dedicated to training, nor were they necessarily that good. They were great at low speed manuevers and dead stop actions, since thats mostly what you have to deal with in parades, and general traffic enforcement (tight turns, quick stops, adn low speed turns and reverses). But there just wasn't enough high speed training to make a difference.

The guys by an large, hated training days (to much like work- with thier ride on the line) and the dept. didsn't support them because it took us off the streets!

And there was really no cost involved in these.

Get guys out here chasing bikes on bikes and you're concocting a recipe for disaster

Add to that the "undercover profile" of a sport bike over a traditional bike and you're screwed.

FInally, as previously stated, theres absolutely no reason to be chasing anyone over a minor traffic offense, and speeding, regardless of how the state jacks it up, is still a MINOR TRAFFIC OFFENSE!!!

They're trying to make it more to justify the chases:NoNo:

Very bad idea:NoNo:

The DARE cars are usually drug vehicles, adn as far as I'm concerned that ok:thumbsup:

But let them start snatching for speed and you'll see all kinds of chit out here on the street:nonod:

BTW, if there's a sport bike out there, you can likely thank you're local bike dealer for the kind donation:thumbsdown:

 

[Suicide King]

I bet you're right and I think that's a good thing too. :thumbsup:

 

[Suicide King]

Hmmm, this is what a friend wrote me.

Just so you know there is one case on the books right now that involves a 2004 R1 used by someone other then the owner that the state police are trying to (continue to keep) keep........the case has been going on for 2 years....paperwork on the state side is 3-4 inches thick (no lie) ....basically their looking to twist a law that states if a vehical is used in the commision of a felony it can be seized.......in this case a Florida State Police Lt. is under oath lieing about the arrest details to win this case........currently it's a $6400 bike...that after sitting for 2 years will need $300-$500 in tires/fluids/injecters cleaned........with auction fees they may net $5800 after it's all said and done.

Now What does it cost the tax payers to support 1 mva attorney, states attorney to 2 years when their document file is 3-4 inches thick........2 Judges.........the cost of 6 jurors.........fees of court dictation..........storage and impound..........court paperwork and fileing.........bringing in 4 officers to testify over a 2 day period.........a adversarial preliminary hearing.........4 1/2 hour of interrogatories.........a denied motion of summary judgement..........and I'm sure there are many other hours invested by other departments..........not to mention food on the plate of the lieing Lt. who took an oath to uphold the law.

All at the tax payers and the owners (not driver) expense, which I'm sure is worth more then the bikes current $5800 value.