• Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.

427 engine (part 2) - RHS block

Rich, have you thought of finding another LS6 and putting it in there and just selling the 427? I know you're going to lose money, but I'm sure you could find a buyer. I know you enjoyed driving the C5 back when you had the STS turbos on it. I'm contemplating putting some on my CTS V.
 
I can't really say that the issue is solely the engine. If I had to take a stab at a guess about what is going on, I would have to say that I think the car has just become haunted by the touch of Harwood. In effect, it seems like the car has been turned into one of those "lemons" that we all hear about someone else getting when they buy a new car.

Heck the engine was actually built by LME using top of the line parts, so if anything, it should be the one solid thing in all this mess. Aaron is just fighting gremlins now, and it appears that a new one crops up just as fast as he stomps out the old one. I believe that there is not going to be anything that Aaron will be able to claim about a Corvette that "he has never seen happen before"...
 
Benjamin said:
Aaron is FAR from that. he has built MANY boosted cars, and they are running and driving on the road still today. Then he should have had this running and finished in 3-4 weeks max, not a year.

remember that the motor will never be ran 100% of the time on boost. therefore the natural vacuum from the intake will evacuate the super duper bad stuff that can harm the motor only if the oil isn't changed but every 10K+ miles.

if this was a drag race or road race only car then the kit you have would be a must but on a car that cruising should be in and out of boost allowing the natural vacuum to evacuate the crankcase is perfectly acceptable IMHO. I am an average tech and have built MANY boosted motors to understand proper crankcase evacuation.If you read, he has defeated ALL of the evac so there is no vacuum evacuation or you would be correct. He is just venting excess crankcase pressure into a breathered overflow can (Moroso style) so there is zero evacuation. The system I describe is for street use only. Track cars need a much more robust system than the system I reccomend. Nothing beats a belt driven vac pump system with proper relief valve.

On your experiance, why haven't you stepped in and offered to show them or help them finish it? I'm sure with your experiance and certifications you could have it done correctly in a few days. I don't know you so I can't judge your true abilities so I can only assume you have enough FI and tuning experiance to quickly solve the issues and get Rich on the road to enjoying this beauty.

Here is a brief rundown on my qualifications:

Over 35 years building race & performance engines with super charging FI in the late 60's and turbo charging since the mid 70's (lots of burnt pistons in the old days of no wide-bands, etc.).

Graduate of the Reher Morrison pro Stock Racing Engine school.

Hold (either one of my race teams or myself personally) multiple Divisional, National, and World Championships in several classes both NHRA & IHRA. ( 2nd ever in history to win a NHRA Wally in an all Corvette class).

Have 29 unique performance industry products I have personally developed and have brought to market. Several cutting edge with industry recognition in National publications/media.

And we just won the NMCA EFI class World Championshipfor the 2nd year in a row weekend before last at Indy, and are currently #1 in the World in NHRA Super Gas and Super Stock as of this past weekend in AZ.

I am not here to fight with you and I'm sure the shop has done some excellent builds in the past, but read back through the issues one after another. Very few make sense at all and if you are that experianced in these type of builds you already know this. Especially the Jessel issue.

I am not perfect at all and still make mistakes...but this is apparent that the build is over their heads IMHO and they don't want to admit it. I have never seen a competent shop with this type of build experiance take a year (more or less) and have excuse after excuse why it isn't finished. Granted, Chris made a mess of all taking this on when it was way above his abilities, but this entire build could have been done over and over again in this time.

We have done similar in a week or less when a deadline had to be met with very few (if any) issues. Take the 2010 Camaro twin turbo build "Gretchen" or the current Whiteside Customs SEMA feature car. We di what Jay Leno's shop was unable to do in only 6 days! And the customer drove it 1000 trouble free miles home....and it was a first, never before done build at the time. Rich's is a not to uncommon build and the engine was built by one of the more respected builders of LS based FI motors.

So, in closing, lets not make this a pissing match. Rich has been through more than enough and to prolong in any further just to "stick up for and defend" someone you are friends with helps no one at this point. Lets get the car finished, and finished right by a shop/tech that does have the extensive experiance with these type of builds....and there are others that can step in and finish this besides myself.
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Well, I have to look at this from Aaron's perspective, too.

Quite honestly, if he were charging me time and materials on this job, not only would he have owned the car LONG ago, he would have had to stop working on it and scrap the thing, because we would be losing money hand over fist on it.

So my presumption is that he is necessarily giving priority to the money making jobs he has come in, and working on my car inbetween those jobs to keep from having the above scenario take place. I think that if that were to happen, it would be quite a black eye to him, all things considered. So he is doing this to HELP me out of a real jam I am in after Harwood had his way with me and my car.

Another extenuating circumstance is that Jim Smith is not local, so there is a lot of down time between visits when Jim can work on my car. Necessarily, he certainly does not come up to Aaron's unless there is other work pending there to make it worth his while. His bill on a time and materials basis could be monstrous as well. I'm sure both Jim and Aaron don't want to be in a position where they couldn't get a customer's car running without charging him so much that they had to take that car away from him. That would look bad in anyone's book, in my opinion. So right now I believe they are just trying to keep from being frustrated to death by my car, and sticking it out hoping for that "hero" moment when it is finally finished.

That being said, I asked Aaron that if the time comes that they just flat out give up on my car, to at least have it in the position where I can drive it home to sell it or trade it in.
 
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Tracy, I'm not going to argue with you. Remember you are ASSuming what Aaron is trying to accomplish. Until you are there or Rich is there taking pictures and HD video of Aaron assembling the evac system only 1 person knows what is being done and he isn't here to defend himself. Just because he has a can that came with a filter on it dosen't mean that he isn't going to plumb it back to the turbo intake and use check valves on the intake manifold to make it work "your way"....

I would step in and help but Aaron is his own man, he does his own thing. He dosen't come running to me to help me do my daily job, so why should I insult him and go tell him how he should do his daily job that he has 20+ years of experience with? He respects me enough to let me do my job and I respect him enough to let him do his job. I stepped up and helped and got the turbo and piping ceramic coated. If Aaron had the equipment and know how to do ceramic coating I wouldn't have offered to help him by coating the parts for them.

Now, how would you feel if this car was dumped into your hands and the tables were turned with all of these issues happening while in your shop, under your expertise? Would you appreciate Aaron coming on here saying you didn't have a clue what you are doing, that your tuner was incompetent, and that you are over your head in taking on a job blindly that some hack job blindly went through and cobbled together something that was WAY over his advertised competency level?

Does it make you feel more badass to go through life and badmouth all the people who try to make a difference and help someone knowing they will be climbing a slippery slope? It is funny that you talk bad about Aaron yet in the beginning nothing bad was said by you about Chris..... He should have finished it in 3-4 weeks but he didn't.....
 
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Gentlemen, please.....

This car has already been the center of quite enough headaches, so I do not want it to be the catalyst that triggers animosity between participants within this thread.

I believe Aaron will get the car finished unless he keels over with a brain embolism first. I have faith in his abilities and respect for him not throwing in the towel on a job that has to be draining to him and Jim.

I've been on top of all the issues that have cropped up, and not once can I say that I believe there was any fault of Aaron's nor Jim's in the problems that have been documented in this thread.

Sometimes, sh!t just happens, and everyone hates being the one standing underneath when the dump takes place.
 
Rich Z said:
Gentlemen, please.....



Sometimes, sh!t just happens, and everyone hates being the one standing underneath when the dump takes place.
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I agree but why does it have to be an elephant your standing under? Having followed this for over a year I also agree that trying to resurrect a basket case is hard enough if it were all stock. Aaron has been working on a one of a kind basket case that had a somewhat dishonest first contributor. This is a very sophisticated car and demands the patience and time to get it right. My instincts tell me that you and Aaron are both very precise people who's work ethic is not to do things half A----. There will be a time soon when it will be done and all the pain and frustration of the inherited problems will be behind you. Do not let the previous shops incompetence that started this saga cloud the fact that you have been given the white flag and need to just make the final lap to the checkered flag. After you drive the first 10 miles that will start to fade into the past and the grin on your face will be the future of this car.
 
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I dunno... Going to take a LOT more than 10 miles of driving before I will trust that sucker to not break something else. Matter of fact, I'm not planning on going more than 100 miles away from home with it for quite a while. I believe that is the limit on my AAA membership for free towing. Heck, I'm going to be on pins and needles just driving it home from Aaron's (if and when that happens). But at least Connie will be driving her truck behind me, just in case. Maybe that will be the plan for at least the first month as a "peace of mind" precaution anyway.
 
Well, I'm not sure how to take this.....

Just got off the phone with Aaron and he says my car is finished. Running great, just a little stumble at low rpms in 6th gear when it is cold, which will likely work itself out over time. He is going to clean the car up and straighten out little odds and ends cosmetically before I can pick it up, but looks like by the end of the week I should be driving it back home. Apparently Jim was up there over the weekend and they worked on it all through the weekend to wrap this up.

Seriously, I don't know how to take this. I'm so used to getting bad news all of the time, that I feel like I'm waiting for that other shoe to drop. I would have thought I would feel happy, relieved, or something, but I just feel pretty much nothing, emotionally about it now.

Maybe that will change when I'm driving it home. :shrug01:

Of course I do expect a few gremlins to show up here and there, so hopefully Aaron won't bar the gate once the car leaves his driveway. I'm sure he's quite reasonably darn tired of seeing my car by now.

So, I guess GOOD NEWS, finally, without any strings attached.

Oh yeah, I guess there is a string attached. Wonder how big of a sock to the jaw that finally bill is going to be? :ack2:
 
miami993c297 said:
Hi Rich,

Speaking of numbers...what are they on the dyno for now?

Christian
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Heck, I'm not really sure. At one point Aaron said it was 650 to 660, but in a later conversation he mentioned 692......... He's reluctant to put it on the dyno again for me to get video. I had been hoping for quite a while to get more video of it on the dyno, but it just never worked out. Now he just doesn't want to tempt fate by making a frivolous run just for me to get video.

Quite honestly, I think Aaron just wants to get the car out of there before something else breaks on him... :yesnod:
 
Yup the white flag is out. I think if it were my car and my wife had supported me through what you have been through I would let her drive it the first 4 or 5 miles and I would follow with the camera.
 
That's great news Rich. Guess you better get that space in your garage cleaned out now.I sure hope it runs good with no major problems.That dinner out, just got alot closer.
 
This point HAD to come some day. Just over two years...that's just crazy! So, if I ever want to have a mean nasty engine build...I'm doing it myself. LOL
 
vetteguy61 said:
That's great news Rich. Guess you better get that space in your garage cleaned out now.I sure hope it runs good with no major problems.That dinner out, just got alot closer.
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Well, I have the bay in the garage cleared where the lift is located. Something tells me I'm going to REALLY need to do a bunch of cleaning underneath. Plus the interior was pretty wrecked looking last I saw it. Cobwebs in the back and two years worth of dust.

Aaron said he is going to clean up the car for me before I get it, but I don't expect him to put a lot of time and effort into that endeavor. When the body shop in Blountstown took out the scratches in the paint from being at Harwood's shop, they left a LOT of really bad swirl marks in the finish. Aaron says he thinks he can save the paint job.

I just wish I could stop thinking of Harwood's face every time I think about that car. If anything, that would be the biggest reason I might decide to get rid of it.
 
Well, not going to be done this week after all.

Aaron told me that some mounting parts for the Pfadt front sway bar are missing. He had hoped I might have them, but no such luck. They are not in all the stuff I recovered from Harwood's shop belonging to my car, so there is no telling where they may have wound up by now. It's just a matter of some spacers and bolts, so Aaron is going to get them from Pfadt. So of course this won't be done until those parts show up. He was going to overnight the stuff, but I told him that a few more days isn't really going to make any difference to me at this point.

Aaron also told me that he finished up detailing my car and got all those swirl marks out of the paint finish. He said I wouldn't recognize the car now.

Let's see, what else did he tell me?

He needs to check to see what thermostat is in that engine.

Needs to charge up the AC compressor.

He discovered that the ABS cable had been removed at some point, but fortunately that was in the car.

Oh yeah, just to note, he replaced two of the O2 sensors because one was giving flaky readings while they were trying to tune the engine.

He said he drove it around 20 miles yesterday (Wednesday) looking for DIC error codes, but the slate was clean. So that's a good sign...

I guess that brings everything up to date, now... :shrug01:
 
Well, this really doesn't come as any surprise after the length of time it has been unhooked, but the AC compressor is dead. He's going to take it to an AC guy he trusts to have him do the work. That will take place tomorrow. At the same time he's going to check that thermostat and if it's not a 160 in there, he will put one in for me.

Aaron is going to fabricate the parts needed to hook up the front sway bar, so that should be done today.

I'm waiting for the meteor to hit my car any day....
 
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