That might be workable if I knew of someone local with a dyno we could use. The problem is that I don't know of anyone nearby with a dyno that I would be comfortable going to.
-
Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.
427 engine (part 2) - RHS block
- Thread starter Rich Z
- Start date
That might be workable if I knew of someone local with a dyno we could use. The problem is that I don't know of anyone nearby with a dyno that I would be comfortable going to.
Anyway, today I put the wastegates back together again and cleaned out the vent ports. The port on my original wastegate just seemed like compacted sand. The newer one seemed to be filled with a putty like substance. Both cleaned out nicely, though, so they are now good to go.
You wouldn't think that a 10 pound spring would be tough to compress. But I'll tell you, trying to compress that spring between the two halves of the wastegate and get those little 4mm screws lined up trying to hold the wastegate together with one hand and trying to put the screws in with the other just about did me in. After dropping the dang screws way too many times, I had to tie the two halves of the wastegates together with wire ties and gradually pull the them together until I could get two screws started. Perhaps it would have been easier with the wastegates off of the car. :shrug01: But then I would have had to find gaskets for the joints. But anyway, got 'er done.
I started working on mounting the wiring harness for the fuel pumps back at the fuel tank end and I've got about 7 feet too much cable. Got the ground wire mounted on the bolt that holds the fuel filter, and mounted the two relays back there onto the bolt that holds a fixed hose bracket right in front of the fuel filter. I hope those relays can stand the elements because they will most certainly get wet if I drive the car in wet weather. Anyway, I just bundled up the excess cable as best I could and tied it up above the fuel filter. Maybe later on when all the more pressing headaches are out of the way I'll pull it back down and shorten it to fit properly.
I ordered a tool that I think will allow me to rivet threaded nuts into the firewall, but O'Reillys website had the description wrong and all I got was the tool, and it did not come with the threaded nuts like it was supposed to. So I've got to work this out now. I swear, I wish I could just order everything I need from Summit Racing. Those guys just don't seem to make mistakes as far as I have seen.
Oh yeah, still waiting on that throttle body. The guy says it is being shipped out today, but I'm not holding my breath. He's not been real accurate with past predictions about when I would be getting it.
You wouldn't think that a 10 pound spring would be tough to compress. But I'll tell you, trying to compress that spring between the two halves of the wastegate and get those little 4mm screws lined up trying to hold the wastegate together with one hand and trying to put the screws in with the other just about did me in. After dropping the dang screws way too many times, I had to tie the two halves of the wastegates together with wire ties and gradually pull the them together until I could get two screws started. Perhaps it would have been easier with the wastegates off of the car. :shrug01: But then I would have had to find gaskets for the joints. But anyway, got 'er done.
I started working on mounting the wiring harness for the fuel pumps back at the fuel tank end and I've got about 7 feet too much cable. Got the ground wire mounted on the bolt that holds the fuel filter, and mounted the two relays back there onto the bolt that holds a fixed hose bracket right in front of the fuel filter. I hope those relays can stand the elements because they will most certainly get wet if I drive the car in wet weather. Anyway, I just bundled up the excess cable as best I could and tied it up above the fuel filter. Maybe later on when all the more pressing headaches are out of the way I'll pull it back down and shorten it to fit properly.
I ordered a tool that I think will allow me to rivet threaded nuts into the firewall, but O'Reillys website had the description wrong and all I got was the tool, and it did not come with the threaded nuts like it was supposed to. So I've got to work this out now. I swear, I wish I could just order everything I need from Summit Racing. Those guys just don't seem to make mistakes as far as I have seen.
Oh yeah, still waiting on that throttle body. The guy says it is being shipped out today, but I'm not holding my breath. He's not been real accurate with past predictions about when I would be getting it.
shakedown067
Sinister C4
So is the throttle body the last part you are waiting on? You get the fuel pumps installed and the fuel rail back together? With all the wastegate vent stuff, I've lost track! Feel like giving us a run down on what's left to do?
The fuel pump is in the tank. I'm still playing around with getting the wiring harness run. I don't like the idea of just using sheet metal screws to mount the fuse blocks in the battery compartment for the pumps so I'm going to try to use threaded nut pop rivets to mount a permanent threaded nut in the firewall. I ordered the tool from OReily's Auto, but in spite of the fact that their website said it came with threaded nuts, when I got it, they were NOT included. So that really didn't help much. They are going to take care of this tomorrow when I run the tool up to a local store to exchange it.
No, don't have the fuel rails back on. I might do that today. Was really waiting to get the throttle body back first, but I'll just leave off that cross over hose in the front so it won't be in the way.
Need to put some gasoline in the gas tank to check for leaks at the pump mounting seal.
Need to adjust the new fuel pressure regulator when I have the fuel system all back together again.
Need to buy a new battery and hook up the battery terminals for the new fuel pump system.
When I can start the car, I need to check for fuel leaks again and make sure everything is OK.
If everything checks out, I then need to pull off the passenger side fuel rail and disconnect the wiring connector going to the MAP sensor. Then need to pull off the vacuum hose at the front of the intake manifold that goes to the blow off valve and relocate that hose to the vacuum block I installed. Then install the 2 bar MAP sensor where that hose came out of the intake and put in the wiring harness extension for it.
When the tune calls for it, I need to run a vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator to the vacuum block so the regulator will then be vacuum regulated.
Need to hook up with wideband sensor to interface with HPTuners and make sure I know what the heck I am doing with it.
Time to get to the nitty gritty with the tuning. I have no idea what to expect, but I suppose I'll have to take the car out often to do data acquisition to send to Ed to try to dial in the tune. I'm hoping we won't need a dyno. There are some long stretches of flat road around here where I can hopefully do some steady state data collection. But no matter what, I suppose that sometime I am going to have to put it on a dyno. But I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Anyway, I think that covers about everything. Well, I need to break in the new brake pads and rotors, and there is that oil level sensor that is leaking that I need to replace the next time I change the oil. Probably some other minor stuff that I just can't recall now. Just praying for no smoke and flames all along the way.
No, don't have the fuel rails back on. I might do that today. Was really waiting to get the throttle body back first, but I'll just leave off that cross over hose in the front so it won't be in the way.
Need to put some gasoline in the gas tank to check for leaks at the pump mounting seal.
Need to adjust the new fuel pressure regulator when I have the fuel system all back together again.
Need to buy a new battery and hook up the battery terminals for the new fuel pump system.
When I can start the car, I need to check for fuel leaks again and make sure everything is OK.
If everything checks out, I then need to pull off the passenger side fuel rail and disconnect the wiring connector going to the MAP sensor. Then need to pull off the vacuum hose at the front of the intake manifold that goes to the blow off valve and relocate that hose to the vacuum block I installed. Then install the 2 bar MAP sensor where that hose came out of the intake and put in the wiring harness extension for it.
When the tune calls for it, I need to run a vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator to the vacuum block so the regulator will then be vacuum regulated.
Need to hook up with wideband sensor to interface with HPTuners and make sure I know what the heck I am doing with it.
Time to get to the nitty gritty with the tuning. I have no idea what to expect, but I suppose I'll have to take the car out often to do data acquisition to send to Ed to try to dial in the tune. I'm hoping we won't need a dyno. There are some long stretches of flat road around here where I can hopefully do some steady state data collection. But no matter what, I suppose that sometime I am going to have to put it on a dyno. But I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Anyway, I think that covers about everything. Well, I need to break in the new brake pads and rotors, and there is that oil level sensor that is leaking that I need to replace the next time I change the oil. Probably some other minor stuff that I just can't recall now. Just praying for no smoke and flames all along the way.
Got the fuel injectors and fuel rails put back onto the engine today. That banjo fitting at the back of the driver side fuel rail seems to clear that rubber plug I put into the fire wall just fine.
Also just tidied up some of the wiring on the engine a bit. I'm pretty much going to take off all of the black convoluted tubing around the engine, as I've seen too many instances of melted plastic here and there with that stuff. It's supposed to have a max temp rating of only about 200 degrees, and quite frankly that's just not good enough close to the engine when the cooland itself can easily reach over that limit. So I'm going to use as much of the Taylor high temp stuff as I can. That stuff is rated at around 1,000 degrees, so I feel a lot more comfortable using it. You can see a little bit of it in the pics above.
Oh yeah, I remembered something else I need to do. While my car was at Aaron's, I asked him to fix the loose right front fender that had gotten broken at the rear tab at Harwood's shop. Well, he did, but I just think I need to do a little bit better job at that "fix", I guess.
Also just tidied up some of the wiring on the engine a bit. I'm pretty much going to take off all of the black convoluted tubing around the engine, as I've seen too many instances of melted plastic here and there with that stuff. It's supposed to have a max temp rating of only about 200 degrees, and quite frankly that's just not good enough close to the engine when the cooland itself can easily reach over that limit. So I'm going to use as much of the Taylor high temp stuff as I can. That stuff is rated at around 1,000 degrees, so I feel a lot more comfortable using it. You can see a little bit of it in the pics above.
Oh yeah, I remembered something else I need to do. While my car was at Aaron's, I asked him to fix the loose right front fender that had gotten broken at the rear tab at Harwood's shop. Well, he did, but I just think I need to do a little bit better job at that "fix", I guess.
Got the new throttle body in today. Looks pretty sharp.
I figure I'll put that in tomorrow as I had some other things to do today.
Got that pop nut rivet tool thing straightened out, so since I have never used one before, I played around with it a bit to get used to it before using it on the firewall of my car. I found that the tool just doesn't give my feeble hands enough leverage to work with the M6 nuts, so I have to work with the M5 and below. But this looks like a real handy tool to use to put a threaded insert into a blind panel where you can't reach the other side to put a nut on a bolt.
I figure I'll put that in tomorrow as I had some other things to do today.
Got that pop nut rivet tool thing straightened out, so since I have never used one before, I played around with it a bit to get used to it before using it on the firewall of my car. I found that the tool just doesn't give my feeble hands enough leverage to work with the M6 nuts, so I have to work with the M5 and below. But this looks like a real handy tool to use to put a threaded insert into a blind panel where you can't reach the other side to put a nut on a bolt.
Put the LS2 throttle body on today. Also put some more insulating tubing on some wiring and untangled some messes. Need to still lay out the wires and wrap them up to make them neater now, though.
Noticed a couple of things that are unsettling, though.
First off, apparently Aaron drilled a hole through the throttle body blade on the one that he installed on my car. I hope the guy I am sending it back as a core doesn't kick it back as being unacceptable this way.
I also noticed that there was a bit of oil at the bottom of the old throttle body when I pulled it off of the intake manifold. So thinking about the warning about fluids in the intercooler, and recalling that Aaron had had at least three instances that I am aware of where oil had gotten into the intake of the turbo plumbing, I decided to pull off the blow off valve to take a look into the bottom of the intercooler. Fortunately everything looked OK in there, with just a light film of gunk, but I found that the o-ring seal for the blow off valve was broken.
Great......
Then to top all of this off, I noticed that the throttle body isn't fitting flush against the front of the intake manifold. The mounting flange for this LS2 throttle body doesn't seem to be as wide as the LS3/LS7 throttle body I took off, and since it isn't fitting flush I could see the throttle body seal peaking out from behind the throttle body. I checked some older pics, and evidently this gap was there when I got the car back home, but it just wasn't noticeable since the orange o-ring wasn't visible. I hope this darn thing is sealing properly. Otherwise I don't have any idea what I would need to do about it. BTW, it appears that the brass mount in the FAST intake that the throttle body bolts to is sticking out a bit, which is making that gap I see.
One step forward and two steps back....... :banghead:
Now I've got to find a blowoff valve o-ring and wait for that to show up. Then be on pins and needles hoping that throttle body is sealed to the intake manifold.
Noticed a couple of things that are unsettling, though.
First off, apparently Aaron drilled a hole through the throttle body blade on the one that he installed on my car. I hope the guy I am sending it back as a core doesn't kick it back as being unacceptable this way.
I also noticed that there was a bit of oil at the bottom of the old throttle body when I pulled it off of the intake manifold. So thinking about the warning about fluids in the intercooler, and recalling that Aaron had had at least three instances that I am aware of where oil had gotten into the intake of the turbo plumbing, I decided to pull off the blow off valve to take a look into the bottom of the intercooler. Fortunately everything looked OK in there, with just a light film of gunk, but I found that the o-ring seal for the blow off valve was broken.
Great......
Then to top all of this off, I noticed that the throttle body isn't fitting flush against the front of the intake manifold. The mounting flange for this LS2 throttle body doesn't seem to be as wide as the LS3/LS7 throttle body I took off, and since it isn't fitting flush I could see the throttle body seal peaking out from behind the throttle body. I checked some older pics, and evidently this gap was there when I got the car back home, but it just wasn't noticeable since the orange o-ring wasn't visible. I hope this darn thing is sealing properly. Otherwise I don't have any idea what I would need to do about it. BTW, it appears that the brass mount in the FAST intake that the throttle body bolts to is sticking out a bit, which is making that gap I see.
One step forward and two steps back....... :banghead:
Now I've got to find a blowoff valve o-ring and wait for that to show up. Then be on pins and needles hoping that throttle body is sealed to the intake manifold.
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Yeah, taking a lot of pics of my car and engine sure has proven worthwhile when I find something to question at a later date. That gap between the throttle body and FAST intake was there when I got the car home from Aaron's. This pic was taken on 12-14-2011 which plainly shows it.
Which can be both good news and bad news, I guess.
The bad news is that the brass insert is definitely further out than it should be for the TB to mount flush with the front of the intake. From what I can tell looking at the pics of the intake manifold before it was installed on the engine at Harwood's, that insert was pretty close to being flush in the manifold.
The good news is that when I tested the engine for vacuum leaks with a can of carburetor cleaner, I know I sprayed right at the throttle body and manifold junction because I thought that was the most likely place a vacuum leak would be, if anywhere, and there were NONE detected. So maybe the throttle body is still sealing OK even with that gap.
The following pics were taken on 01-22-2010 at Harwood's shop before the manifold was installed and any throttle body mounted on it, showing that brass fitting and how much more relatively flush it was at that time.
Unfortunately I don't think I have any other pics of the exact angle I need of this gap between the throttle body and manifold to be able to pinpoint how, when, or where this problem first started showing up.
Which can be both good news and bad news, I guess.
The bad news is that the brass insert is definitely further out than it should be for the TB to mount flush with the front of the intake. From what I can tell looking at the pics of the intake manifold before it was installed on the engine at Harwood's, that insert was pretty close to being flush in the manifold.
The good news is that when I tested the engine for vacuum leaks with a can of carburetor cleaner, I know I sprayed right at the throttle body and manifold junction because I thought that was the most likely place a vacuum leak would be, if anywhere, and there were NONE detected. So maybe the throttle body is still sealing OK even with that gap.
The following pics were taken on 01-22-2010 at Harwood's shop before the manifold was installed and any throttle body mounted on it, showing that brass fitting and how much more relatively flush it was at that time.
Unfortunately I don't think I have any other pics of the exact angle I need of this gap between the throttle body and manifold to be able to pinpoint how, when, or where this problem first started showing up.
So those brass threaded nuts aren't threaded into the intake manifold? Just pressed in?
On second thought, I'm going to hold off and order a new throttle body seal and replace that when I remove the throttle body again to tap in those threaded inserts. All things considered, it seems kind of foolish of me to just assume that the seal that is in there now is OK.
Hopefully I can find that throttle body seal and the blow off valve o-ring at the same place.
Hopefully I can find that throttle body seal and the blow off valve o-ring at the same place.
Went to the local Ace Hardware today (Sunday) and found a nearly exact match for that blow off valve o-ring I needed. Surprised the hell out of me, to be honest. I usually come away empty handed with stuff like that when I try to buy locally.
Put the threaded nuts in place in the firewall behind the battery to mount the fuse blocks for the fuel pumps. Still need to mount the loop connectors somewhere in there. Or I could just leave them lay alongside the battery for ease of access.
I got a new Optima yellow top battery the other day, so I can pop that in there any time I am ready for it.
Also got one of the 5 gallon gas cans filled up with gasoline.
Sure wish I had had the forethought to order one of those throttle body seals before today.... :banghead: And I do hope the place I ordered it from actually has one on the shelf and doesn't drag me out delivering it. If it happens that way, I just may have to do without and try to set those brass thread inserts back into the manifold and skip the new seal for now. Oh yeah, now I remember.... I DID order a new throttle body seal a couple of months ago. But for some darn reason I ordered a seal for the original LS6 style throttle body. Lot of good that is doing me....
Put the threaded nuts in place in the firewall behind the battery to mount the fuse blocks for the fuel pumps. Still need to mount the loop connectors somewhere in there. Or I could just leave them lay alongside the battery for ease of access.
I got a new Optima yellow top battery the other day, so I can pop that in there any time I am ready for it.
Also got one of the 5 gallon gas cans filled up with gasoline.
Sure wish I had had the forethought to order one of those throttle body seals before today.... :banghead: And I do hope the place I ordered it from actually has one on the shelf and doesn't drag me out delivering it. If it happens that way, I just may have to do without and try to set those brass thread inserts back into the manifold and skip the new seal for now. Oh yeah, now I remember.... I DID order a new throttle body seal a couple of months ago. But for some darn reason I ordered a seal for the original LS6 style throttle body. Lot of good that is doing me....
navy2kcoupe
!ereH nI depparT m'I pleH
Rich, I admire your patience! By now, I would be into MAJOR body work from beating
on the car with a hammer out of frustration! On a GOOD note, the engine bay looks
awesome, and the rest of the car shows the attention to detail that you have been
putting into the restoration/modification rebuild of the C5Z. All in all, I think that when
you're done with the work the C5Z will be a blast to drive, and will totally surprise
most people. I like this thread, not for the purpose of showing how others screwed up,
but for the purpose of documenting how things should be done right! Your attention
to detail and desire to "do it right" should serve you well down the road! :thumbsup:
Andy Anderson :wavey:
on the car with a hammer out of frustration! On a GOOD note, the engine bay looks
awesome, and the rest of the car shows the attention to detail that you have been
putting into the restoration/modification rebuild of the C5Z. All in all, I think that when
you're done with the work the C5Z will be a blast to drive, and will totally surprise
most people. I like this thread, not for the purpose of showing how others screwed up,
but for the purpose of documenting how things should be done right! Your attention
to detail and desire to "do it right" should serve you well down the road! :thumbsup:
Andy Anderson :wavey:
shakedown067
Sinister C4
Can you not find a throttle body gasket from napa, autozone, etc? Which reminds me, I'm over due to check the ones on my truck.
That is a F.A.S.T. 102 intake manifold on my engine, so that seal/gasket is not anything you would find on a production car. I actually did browse through a listing online showing a slew of stock throttle body seals, and there was nothing that looked promising.
No, I think I need to get the exact one made for that intake manifold, unfortunately.
You know, I can't even think of a single retail speed shop close by at all, much less one that has any decent inventory of stock.
shakedown067
Sinister C4
Ah yeah...I was thinking since the throttle body was a stock unit you could get a stock gasket. I've had horrible luck with our local, fairly huge, speed shop in gearhead performance for stocking items too. I guess I need an old Mustang or Camaro to help empty their shelves. Heck they don't even stock racing seats as I'd like to replace the ones in my '96.
Actually, I've been reading over sections of this thread in the past, and this is certainly an exercise in insanity, to say the least.
Heck, I have ALWAYS been of the mind that if you are going to do something, just do it right. I might not have always understood what is the most "right" way to do something, but I gave it my best shot to try to figure it out. I guess what astonishes me about all this is that this sort of trait is not as commonly found as I would have hoped. Otherwise I wouldn't have gotten into the mess I have with this car. Heck, did the people who worked on my car think I wouldn't notice what they did (or didn't do), or did they just not give a crap whether I noticed or not? Or in their minds was this really their BEST effort? It truly, TRULY does baffle me, and I suppose I will never understand it.
But that is all really behind me now. I made mistakes in who I chose to work on my car, and those are mistakes that I have to live with now and make the best of it myself. Hopefully the car is TRULY nearly done now and I won't find yet another layer of the onion of things that were done incorrectly that I will need to correct.