Auto bailout

[Pres712]

All this talk about bailing out the automakers got me to thinking. Why do we need so many models and for that matter, automakers that make the same thing? Take for example, GMC; aren't these just fancied up Chevy's? Do away with the whole division! If you want a fancier Chevy Suburban go to JC Whitney - same thing. And why do we need Mercury? Another fancied up Ford. See JC Whitney.
And why do we need so many models per division? Walk into a Chevy dealer and there must be 8 or so different models, not counting Corvette! It seems that when someone gets a fart crosswise, they make a model for it. What was wrong with the Cavalier? For that matter what was wrong with the Corvair? I can still remember walking into a Chevy dealer and there were three choices, coupe, sedan or convertible. Again, not counting trucks or Corvette.

How about those big salaries? I say tie their salary into profit. Division makes a profit, give the CEO a percentage. Doesn't make a profit, ding! Comes out of next quarters salary. And no bonuses, want more money? Make more profit!!!

Anybody else??? :shrug01:

 

[dvdcta]

All this talk about bailing out the automakers got me to thinking. Why do we need so many models and for that matter, automakers that make the same thing? Take for example, GMC; aren't these just fancied up Chevy's? Do away with the whole division! If you want a fancier Chevy Suburban go to JC Whitney - same thing. And why do we need Mercury? Another fancied up Ford. See JC Whitney.
And why do we need so many models per division? Walk into a Chevy dealer and there must be 8 or so different models, not counting Corvette! It seems that when someone gets a fart crosswise, they make a model for it. What was wrong with the Cavalier? For that matter what was wrong with the Corvair? I can still remember walking into a Chevy dealer and there were three choices, coupe, sedan or convertible. Again, not counting trucks or Corvette.

How about those big salaries? I say tie their salary into profit. Division makes a profit, give the CEO a percentage. Doesn't make a profit, ding! Comes out of next quarters salary. And no bonuses, want more money? Make more profit!!!

Anybody else??? :shrug01:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Rich Z]

Yeah, I agree.... They need to just tighten the belt like everyone else is doing. We all didn't get dividend checks when they were doing great, so why should we all pony up for the losses via increased taxes?

If I wanted to own stock in those companies, I would have done so.....

 

[gsdave]

Not so sure on the number of models. In the 70's, Chevrolet had Impala, Caprice, Vega, Monza, Corvette, Malibu, and Monte Carlo all at one time (not to mention all the variations on each model trim wise) In the 60's and early 70's, several models were available as hardtop (2 and 4 door), sedan (2 and 4 dr), and convertibles. The choices these days are pretty slim in my opinion compared to days of the past. Now most cars aren't even available as a 2 door and you're lucky if you get one or two engine options.

The biggest problems I see with the big three are the unions and the sheer production volume they're capable of outpaces demand (in most cases), yet the pricing does not reflect that.

Also, I think most of the amount CEO's make per year is tied to profit. I think most of them would welcome the opportunity to take a tiny salary and a larger profit sharing percentage.

 

[Pres712]

Not so sure on the number of models. In the 70's, Chevrolet had Impala, Caprice, Vega, Monza, Corvette, Malibu, and Monte Carlo all at one time (not to mention all the variations on each model trim wise) In the 60's and early 70's, several models were available as hardtop (2 and 4 door), sedan (2 and 4 dr), and convertibles. The choices these days are pretty slim in my opinion compared to days of the past. Now most cars aren't even available as a 2 door and you're lucky if you get one or two engine options.

The biggest problems I see with the big three are the unions and the sheer production volume they're capable of outpaces demand (in most cases), yet the pricing does not reflect that.

Also, I think most of the amount CEO's make per year is tied to profit. I think most of them would welcome the opportunity to take a tiny salary and a larger profit sharing percentage.

When I say earlier, I ment the '50's. I fully agree about the unions but didn't want to go there. As far as the "top dogs", they draw a salary that would make the average person blush and the "bonus" is tied to their contract. The contract states "profit at the end of the year", that is why I stated "quarterly".

 

[Ms. AntiVenom]

It seems that when someone gets a fart crosswise, they make a model for it.
O.k. best laugh Ive had today

For that matter what was wrong with the Corvair?
Ralph Nader said :NoNo:

I have allot of family working assembly lines in Detroit, They have REALLY good checks, I hate to say it, they dont think its enough money, One makes like 40 bucks an hour w/ benefits. Granted they could be lying a little.

 

[dvdcta]

It seems that when someone gets a fart crosswise, they make a model for it.
O.k. best laugh Ive had today

For that matter what was wrong with the Corvair?
Ralph Nader said :NoNo:

I have allot of family working assembly lines in Detroit, They have REALLY good checks, I hate to say it, they dont think its enough money, One makes like 40 bucks an hour w/ benefits. Granted they could be lying a little.

TRY! 60 & they get like 75% after retirement. With 20 yrs. in THAT'S WHY YOUR DAMN VETTE COST'S SO MUCH!!!!!!......AKA THE PHANTOM!! :crazy03:

 

[als2052]

We need to be careful with what we say...case in point, why do we need so many varaitions of the Corvette? LT1, LT2, LT3, LT4, Z06, ZR1? Hate to say it but thats overkill as well...

 

[dvdcta]

We need to be careful with what we say...case in point, why do we need so many varaitions of the Corvette? LT1, LT2, LT3, LT4, Z06, ZR1? Hate to say it but thats overkill as well...

I AGREE! ONLY ONE!!!! & MAX IT OUT!!!!!!... IT'S A PERFORMANCE CAR & IF YOU CAN'T DRIVE IT,......GET A DAMN KIA!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[LS2POWA]

I AGREE! ONLY ONE!!!! & MAX IT OUT!!!!!!... IT'S A PERFORMANCE CAR & IF YOU CAN'T DRIVE IT,......GET A DAMN KIA!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Since when does price of a model have anything to do with your ability to drive it? Im sure an experienced Z06 owner with boltons can handle a ZR1.

The reason for many models, is to allow for a greater population of ownership. I know back when I had my foxbody and my srt4, driving a corvette meant youre doing good in life or youve got thick lined pockets.

Now a days anyone can own a corvette, gives everyone a chance to experience one of the greatest cars America has given to the world. If all GM did was build one corvette and make it balls to the wall(aka the ZR1), how many corvette owners do you think there would be at this very same time. I dont see a lot of normal 9-5ers shellling out 125k+ for a car that wont be used as a daily driver, nor be used as it was designed for.

I always wanted a corvette ever since i rode in my uncles 74. One of the coolest cars, but it was always the car i would get during my "mid-life crisis", or retiring. Due to unfortunate events in my life my mid life crisis came at age of 25, and of course with the economy hurting i took advantage and bought one. Best car ive ever had until i started modding it lol.

I do see the point the point in canceling "luxury" models Mercury to Ford, GMC to Chevy. They were just catering to the snobby pricks who didnt wanna drive what everyone else was. I knew some people like that, would always say their mountaineer was greater then a regular explorer cause it had awd. Little did they know some explorers also came with awd but w/e. The companies should looked more at it, spend billions to cater to a few. Dodge is smart by dropping the viper soon so the money saved on them to upgrade like a base model car to a sxt level and make the sxt even nicer. Thats what ford/gm need to do.

The british car shows mainly clarksons lame arse always criticizes american cars for cheap plastic interior. Well GM should drop GMC line, and idk maybe start using quality leather inside the corvette atleast. Shame my car already has a good size hole in one of the bolsters but again w/e. I see it as a performance car, not a luxury car. Give lower end eco cars and midsize family cars upgrades. Use a real navigation system not a 2500 option that is useless compared to a 200$ garmin handheld unit.

I say let the auto companies fail, make them experience what small time business owners feel when they screw up their expenses, you dont see the government bailing them out. Treat it like a video game, if you lose(close down) hit the reset button and start from the bottom, but this time using the knowledge of not screwing up this time to build a better company.

Ok time for me to end rant.

 

[9T8Vette]

Since when does price of a model have anything to do with your ability to drive it? Im sure an experienced Z06 owner with boltons can handle a ZR1.

The reason for many models, is to allow for a greater population of ownership. I know back when I had my foxbody and my srt4, driving a corvette meant youre doing good in life or youve got thick lined pockets.

Now a days anyone can own a corvette, gives everyone a chance to experience one of the greatest cars America has given to the world. If all GM did was build one corvette and make it balls to the wall(aka the ZR1), how many corvette owners do you think there would be at this very same time. I dont see a lot of normal 9-5ers shellling out 125k+ for a car that wont be used as a daily driver, nor be used as it was designed for.

I always wanted a corvette ever since i rode in my uncles 74. One of the coolest cars, but it was always the car i would get during my "mid-life crisis", or retiring. Due to unfortunate events in my life my mid life crisis came at age of 25, and of course with the economy hurting i took advantage and bought one. Best car ive ever had until i started modding it lol.

I do see the point the point in canceling "luxury" models Mercury to Ford, GMC to Chevy. They were just catering to the snobby pricks who didnt wanna drive what everyone else was. I knew some people like that, would always say their mountaineer was greater then a regular explorer cause it had awd. Little did they know some explorers also came with awd but w/e. The companies should looked more at it, spend billions to cater to a few. Dodge is smart by dropping the viper soon so the money saved on them to upgrade like a base model car to a sxt level and make the sxt even nicer. Thats what ford/gm need to do.

The british car shows mainly clarksons lame arse always criticizes american cars for cheap plastic interior. Well GM should drop GMC line, and idk maybe start using quality leather inside the corvette atleast. Shame my car already has a good size hole in one of the bolsters but again w/e. I see it as a performance car, not a luxury car. Give lower end eco cars and midsize family cars upgrades. Use a real navigation system not a 2500 option that is useless compared to a 200$ garmin handheld unit.

I say let the auto companies fail, make them experience what small time business owners feel when they screw up their expenses, you dont see the government bailing them out. Treat it like a video game, if you lose(close down) hit the reset button and start from the bottom, but this time using the knowledge of not screwing up this time to build a better company.

Ok time for me to end rant.

I agree
:thumbsup:

 

[dvdcta]

Since when does price of a model have anything to do with your ability to drive it? Im sure an experienced Z06 owner with boltons can handle a ZR1.

The reason for many models, is to allow for a greater population of ownership. I know back when I had my foxbody and my srt4, driving a corvette meant youre doing good in life or youve got thick lined pockets.

Now a days anyone can own a corvette, gives everyone a chance to experience one of the greatest cars America has given to the world. If all GM did was build one corvette and make it balls to the wall(aka the ZR1), how many corvette owners do you think there would be at this very same time. I dont see a lot of normal 9-5ers shellling out 125k+ for a car that wont be used as a daily driver, nor be used as it was designed for.

I always wanted a corvette ever since i rode in my uncles 74. One of the coolest cars, but it was always the car i would get during my "mid-life crisis", or retiring. Due to unfortunate events in my life my mid life crisis came at age of 25, and of course with the economy hurting i took advantage and bought one. Best car ive ever had until i started modding it lol.

I do see the point the point in canceling "luxury" models Mercury to Ford, GMC to Chevy. They were just catering to the snobby pricks who didnt wanna drive what everyone else was. I knew some people like that, would always say their mountaineer was greater then a regular explorer cause it had awd. Little did they know some explorers also came with awd but w/e. The companies should looked more at it, spend billions to cater to a few. Dodge is smart by dropping the viper soon so the money saved on them to upgrade like a base model car to a sxt level and make the sxt even nicer. Thats what ford/gm need to do.

The british car shows mainly clarksons lame arse always criticizes american cars for cheap plastic interior. Well GM should drop GMC line, and idk maybe start using quality leather inside the corvette atleast. Shame my car already has a good size hole in one of the bolsters but again w/e. I see it as a performance car, not a luxury car. Give lower end eco cars and midsize family cars upgrades. Use a real navigation system not a 2500 option that is useless compared to a 200$ garmin handheld unit.

I say let the auto companies fail, make them experience what small time business owners feel when they screw up their expenses, you dont see the government bailing them out. Treat it like a video game, if you lose(close down) hit the reset button and start from the bottom, but this time using the knowledge of not screwing up this time to build a better company.

Ok time for me to end rant.

GEEZ! I didn't think you had a vette? Put some pic's up??????

 

[LS2POWA]

If i didnt have a vette id find it kinda senseless to even post here. but if i lost my vette id still post here. met nice people off this forum.

ill post pics when i get my car out of the shop. only ones i have now are crap angles and dirty. still need to find a spot in bradenton to take some sweet landscape shots.

 

[floridaZ]

The companies really don't make as many completely different cars as you might think. There are obvious ones like the Saturn Sky and the Pontiac Solstice. But many cars are built on the same "platform". This allows them to save production costs by having highly interchangeable parts, which means each model has to sell less to become a success.

And the fact that they bought the well designed stuff from Mazda doesn't hurt any, either.:hehehe:

 

[Rich Z]

Yeah, but I think the number of models really does hurt them in the long run. Dealer lot space is a limiting factor on what they can carry to offer to a prospective customer. Many people want to buy what is on the lot RIGHT NOW, so they can drive it home. Not order one and wait for it to get built. Personally I don't mind waiting to get exactly what I want, but that certainly does not apply to everyone. Perhaps not even a majority of people. So it behooves a dealer to try to have as wide a variety as possible to try to snag the impulse buyers coming through.

With that in mind, a lower number of offerings allows the dealer to more easily hit the target of having everything the manufacturer offers, right there on the lot. I mean, look at just the number of vehicles a dealer would have to have on the lot to have EVERYTHING offered in only the Corvette line for 2009? Four different models (C6 Coupe, C6 Convertible, Z06, ZR-1), with each exterior color option and in those each possible interior color option, as well as the various optional add-ins. Right there you are talking about a substantial commitment of lot real estate just to hold all of them. So multiply that by all the other different product lines and you have an overwhelming number of vehicles that you need to have in stock. And even when they try their best to cover all the bases, I'll be it is frustrating as hell to have a potential buyer looking for that ONE option that is not there on the lot.....

 

[navy2kcoupe]

Yeah, but I think the number of models really does hurt them in the long run. Dealer lot space is a limiting factor on what they can carry to offer to a prospective customer. Many people want to buy what is on the lot RIGHT NOW, so they can drive it home. Not order one and wait for it to get built. Personally I don't mind waiting to get exactly what I want, but that certainly does not apply to everyone. Perhaps not even a majority of people. So it behooves a dealer to try to have as wide a variety as possible to try to snag the impulse buyers coming through.

With that in mind, a lower number of offerings allows the dealer to more easily hit the target of having everything the manufacturer offers, right there on the lot. I mean, look at just the number of vehicles a dealer would have to have on the lot to have EVERYTHING offered in only the Corvette line for 2009? Four different models (C6 Coupe, C6 Convertible, Z06, ZR-1), with each exterior color option and in those each possible interior color option, as well as the various optional add-ins. Right there you are talking about a substantial commitment of lot real estate just to hold all of them. So multiply that by all the other different product lines and you have an overwhelming number of vehicles that you need to have in stock. And even when they try their best to cover all the bases, I'll be it is frustrating as hell to have a potential buyer looking for that ONE option that is not there on the lot.....

Yep! My son-in-law was looking for a Mazda 6 in a specific color with specific options, and none of the dealers locally had one. He had to drive about 60 miles to a dealer in Rhode Island to get the car that he wanted. The only way he was able to find it was that Mazda had an inventory list on the computer for at least new england (and maybe the entire U.S??), and they were able to search it for color and options. I think that he would have bought something else (different manufacturer) if they couldn't have found what he was looking for.
Andy :wavey:

 

[LS2POWA]

I about pulled what your son did. I was trying to find a Black on Black 3LT with A6(mainly the F1 paddles that i never use). I went to EVERY local car dealer and sadly the only one who bothered to check other store inventory was autoway ford. If it wasnt for me just waking up at 3am to check carmax, the next day I was gonna go buy a new model Mustang GT. I had to have ym car drop shipped from S.C to St.Pete which wasnt fun. Had to wait a week for a day drive.

 

[Shadow]

Florida is correct about the platforms.:thumbsup:

If you look at a lot of models and even subcategories such as Toyota and Lexus, you'll see the same car with minor cosmetic modifications, almost entirely interchangeable body, interior and drivetrain packages....simply rebadged and the price either jacked or discounted, depending on the model.

How's this:

In 91, we bought a 91 GEO Prizm.....GM car right?

All Toyota Corolla right down to the hubcaps:rofl1::rofl1:About 5-6 k less than a "Yota":thumbsup: