General Motors/Ford/Chrysler/UAW

[Harbor Master]

DVD, Florida minimum wage is 5.85, so after taxes youll make 4.87 an hour.

floridas right to work theory is basicly, any job can fire you for any reason. They can fire you for wearing purple shoes, or just randomly dying your hair pink an green. They dont need a valid excuse to let you go.

LS22POWA, How in gods name can anyone live on $4.87 take home pay. I would have to believe the people working for this amount are not eligible for any kind of assistance. The government should take into consideration what they make and give these people a reduced amount in aid. At least then they would have an incentive to work and not go on full blown government aid.I know this is a hot button for a lot of people but there just are not enough good paying jobs for everyone. :shrug01: HUTCH

 

[Rich Z]

Well one problem with a minimum wage that gets too high, is that employers have to cut back the number of employees, simply because they can't afford to be paying out that kind of money. So in effect, it has the exact opposite effect it is supposed to have. It causes LESS overall employment, which is not so good for employees. Yeah, they may make a minimum amount WHEN they find a job, but it's the finding that job that will become harder to do.

 

[Harbor Master]

Well one problem with a minimum wage that gets too high, is that employers have to cut back the number of employees, simply because they can't afford to be paying out that kind of money. So in effect, it has the exact opposite effect it is supposed to have. It causes LESS overall employment, which is not so good for employees. Yeah, they may make a minimum amount WHEN they find a job, but it's the finding that job that will become harder to do.

Rich Z, What a hell of a predicament for people to be in. Working one and most times two jobs, and still do not have enough money to live on.

 

[LS2POWA]

If you think living off 4.87 is bad, talk to waitress' and waiters. Their min. wage is under 3 bucks an hour, given you rely on tips, but in this economy not a lot of people are out spending and people who do don't tip well.

I dont pity the people who make crap wages. My sister was one. She worked at a daycare for her church barely making 6 an hour. Would always cry cause she had no money to go out an do anything with friends. Every time I would tell her to get off her ass and find something better, cause something better isn't going to find you. Same people out there now whining about little pay need to get off their ass and start looking, but be smart about it, wait till you have something secured before cutting your money short like some people i know who did that.

 

[dvdcta]

GM

DVD, you aren't making any sense in your posts. The other guys are making valid points and interesting to read. Please stay on topic so there is a continuity of thought. THis is a polite request, please.
Regarding the history of Unions, I can understand why they exist. Previously, the workers had no rights and were almost slave labor mentality.
But the old cliche' holds true here-Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Unions dictating what work can be done or not done is not good for business. Take the tire industry for example. John Doe can build 6 large truck tires a day. His co-worker Lazy Bob can only build 3 of the same tires per day. The union protects Lazy Bob and takes any incentive away from John Doe by allowing the workers to build only 3 tires a day!!
Why short change innovation and hard work. We've become a nation of doing just enough to get by and therfore losing our global influence in the market place.

THOR! I didn't explain it right!!!

I've belonged to unions. I never needed one cause I always, did my JOB.Gave them. 110%..... I have seen some that don't, some that sit on their arse & don't do chit!......I owned a machine shop, that didn't have a union, & always treated my employees right, if they had a problem, I had a open door policy................& the union ended up shutting down, one of the biggest machine shops there, cause they could not compete!....because of lazy Bob's.

 

[dvdcta]

GM

If you think living off 4.87 is bad, talk to waitress' and waiters. Their min. wage is under 3 bucks an hour, given you rely on tips, but in this economy not a lot of people are out spending and people who do don't tip well.

I dont pity the people who make crap wages. My sister was one. She worked at a daycare for her church barely making 6 an hour. Would always cry cause she had no money to go out an do anything with friends. Every time I would tell her to get off her ass and find something better, cause something better isn't going to find you. Same people out there now whining about little pay need to get off their ass and start looking, but be smart about it, wait till you have something secured before cutting your money short like some people i know who did that.

I Don't know, where your @ but the waiters/waitress, here make good bucks! & all they get is min. but they take home, a couple hundred a night. they tip good here. good money has no boundrys.........I've did that,as far as burning your bridges & it gives you more incentive!!!.......PHANTOM....:thumbsup:

 

[dvdcta]

GM

LS22POWA, How in gods name can anyone live on $4.87 take home pay. I would have to believe the people working for this amount are not eligible for any kind of assistance. The government should take into consideration what they make and give these people a reduced amount in aid. At least then they would have an incentive to work and not go on full blown government aid.I know this is a hot button for a lot of people but there just are not enough good paying jobs for everyone. :shrug01: HUTCH

Rich Z, What a hell of a predicament for people to be in. Working one and most times two jobs, and still do not have enough money to live on.

I agree! I'ved worked two jobs most of my life because my spending habit's exceed my income. which is out of site,for most of the time! & I don't live on that, try 4 times that + another 4!!! :thumbsup:

 

[Harbor Master]

We have got off the main topic a little but all debate is good. Since we have let's talk about GM wages. Top to bottom they are in the top wage earners for what they actually do. GMs answer to hourly wages. Offer whatever it takes to get people out the door. Then hire new people at half the hourly rate. But what about the top end of the food chain. I have not heard one thing about any top wage earners taking any concessions. It seems bonuses and other monetary perks would be set aside until GM is back in the black. All at GM share in the blame for their current condition. The leadership made the decisions that drove the runaway train, and should in someway share in paying for the train wreck. -------------------HUTCH

 

[dvdcta]

gm

We have got off the main topic a little but all debate is good. Since we have let's talk about GM wages. Top to bottom they are in the top wage earners for what they actually do. GMs answer to hourly wages. Offer whatever it takes to get people out the door. Then hire new people at half the hourly rate. But what about the top end of the food chain. I have not heard one thing about any top wage earners taking any concessions. It seems bonuses and other monetary perks would be set aside until GM is back in the black. All at GM share in the blame for their current condition. The leadership made the decisions that drove the runaway train, and should in someway share in paying for the train wreck. -------------------HUTCH

HUTCH! are you driving the TRAIN???.........SWAMP RAT!.......

 

[Lou G]

We have got off the main topic a little but all debate is good. Since we have let's talk about GM wages. Top to bottom they are in the top wage earners for what they actually do. GMs answer to hourly wages. Offer whatever it takes to get people out the door. Then hire new people at half the hourly rate. But what about the top end of the food chain. I have not heard one thing about any top wage earners taking any concessions. It seems bonuses and other monetary perks would be set aside until GM is back in the black. All at GM share in the blame for their current condition. The leadership made the decisions that drove the runaway train, and should in someway share in paying for the train wreck. -------------------HUTCH

You are absolutely correct.

GM said they are selling two of its jets, well, sell all three and travel like us. And I don't mean first class.

No more company vehicles. Let them buy cars out of their pocket (and no employee discount).

No bonus or stock options unless the company makes money and builds its capital.

At company meetings let them buy their own coffee, lunch and/or dinner out of their pockets not as a company expense.

Same with phones/blackberry/laptops, not a company expense. Pay out of their pocket.

Reduce marketing expense by a large percent.

Combine/reduce management structure.

Get ride of all the nice to have and only keep the must have.

Let me see their expense budget and I'll come up with more cuts.

 

[Harbor Master]

You are absolutely correct.

GM said they are selling two of its jets, well, sell all three and travel like us. And I don't mean first class.

No more company vehicles. Let them buy cars out of their pocket (and no employee discount).

No bonus or stock options unless the company makes money and builds its capital.

At company meetings let them buy their own coffee, lunch and/or dinner out of their pockets not as a company expense.

Same with phones/blackberry/laptops, not a company expense. Pay out of their pocket.

Reduce marketing expense by a large percent.

Combine/reduce management structure.

Get ride of all the nice to have and only keep the must have.

Let me see their expense budget and I'll come up with more cuts.

You are the man Lou G! I truly mean that in a complimentary way. All your bullets hit the bulls-eye on the GM target. Until they get lean and mean stay in Detroit and out of Washington.-------HUTCH

 

[dvdcta]

GM!

HUTCH! are you driving the TRAIN???.........SWAMP RAT!.......

You are absolutely correct.

GM said they are selling two of its jets, well, sell all three and travel like us. And I don't mean first class.

No more company vehicles. Let them buy cars out of their pocket (and no employee discount).

No bonus or stock options unless the company makes money and builds its capital.

At company meetings let them buy their own coffee, lunch and/or dinner out of their pockets not as a company expense.

Same with phones/blackberry/laptops, not a company expense. Pay out of their pocket.

Reduce marketing expense by a large percent.

Combine/reduce management structure.

Get ride of all the nice to have and only keep the must have.

Let me see their expense budget and I'll come up with more cuts.

I! AGREE ON THAT!!!!...........SWAMP RAT......:thumbsup:

 

[vettejack]

I've been in both industries...

auto and aviation...and have been in the membership of the AFL-CIO and IAW...that l can, and will, speak with experience when I say...that no one will ever justify to me, given similiar education and work experience of both an auto technician on the line and aviation technician on the line...that the auto tech earns more getting sheetmetal on the lot than the aviation tech getting sheetmetal in the air. :thumbsdown:

Simply put, given the exact parameters, how does a guy building a car in Detroit earn more per hour than a guy building an aircraft in Seattle (less demographic cost)??

Somehow that staggers the imagination!! :shrug01:

There is a direct corelation to the earnings of close to $60 p/hour and the failing Detroit auto industry. When close to 20% of the cost of an automobile can be directly associated to the benefit packages generously given Detroit unions, you can see why there is failure upon the horizon. Best thing for the Big 3 is to declare bankruptcy and reorganize without the load of suffocating union wages and unsustainable benefit packages hovering over their heads of management. At the same time they reorganize, fire management for simply not 'managing'....allowing all this to bear down on them. :thumbsup:

Shame on Detroit for misusing our trust, time, and faith, in what I thought to be a stellar industry!! :toetap05:

Just my .02 worth of ranting. :hehehe: