• Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.

Need a little guidance here. H/C guys pull up a seat!!

chris308

chris308

spam sniper
Ok, in my ongoing quest for more power, I have decided to take the plunge and do the H/C route and my next endevour...

The goal: I am looking to get around 400+ range out of my LS1 in NA form.

Current mods: TSP LT headers, X-pipe (no cats)
Granetelli catback exhaust
LS6 Intake Mani
Ported TB

So I have been doing some research and have decided to go with Patriot stageII 5.3 heads. Mainly due to the great feed back on them and the cost.
http://www.patriot-performance.com/waterNew/default.asp?T=505233&DID=1225

What I need help on is cam specs..... I have zero knowledge on what is a good cam or what will work with the heads i'm looking into.

All I know is 400+ out of the combo, must be tame for daily driving use and still give some power.

What say you....:shrug01::hehehe:
 
If you want to talk about that stuff you can call Greg 813-690-0175 he can give you any Info he is like an encyclopedia.

and FYI trust me wont try to sell you anything:lmao: He will talk to you like you grew up next door to him.

I cant get him to take time out today to sit at the desk, he is on a mission today and allot big things are happing at the shop.
 
Thanks Rashelle, :wavey:

I don't wanna interrupt him with my mega-newbie questions. :thumbsup:

I'm in no rush, just throwin out questions here n there and getting some opinions if i could from those that have seen the light and walked the path!! I'm still just in the beginning stages of researching this project of mine. :hehehe:
 
A cam and those heads could make you anywhere from 370 rwhp to 440 rwhp. The bigger the cam, if properly selected, the more hp and the worse driveability. The "classic" cam for a setup like that is a 224/228 XE-R with a 114 LSA and a 110 ICL (or "+4"). That cam will make over 400, and with the proper tune will still drive nice, have good low end (although not, perhaps, low-low end), and get good mileage. It will have some lope. If you want something with better driveability, go down 4 degrees to a 220/224/114/110. For more top end, go up 4 degrees to a 228/232/114/110. If, within one of those, you'll trade a rougher idle for more low end, a slightly higher peak number, and a slightly narrower powerband, go to a 112 or even a 110 LSA.

All this assumes a M6 transmission and 3.42 gears. If you have an automatic, you almost have to go to a high-stall torque converter at the same time as you go to a cam, unless it is an extremely mild cam, and the cam and converter should be selected and installed together.

By all means, talk to Greg and have him order up a cam for your specific needs. He will grill you on questions like where you want the idle, how rough an idle, how much lope, where you want the powerband, how you normally drive, future mod plans, etc., etc. The desired rwhp is almost not even a factor. We all want as much power as we can get *within the other parameters we're willing to live with*, and those are what drive the cam selection. RWHP is just a number on a piece of paper, you can't drive it.
 
Understand this basic principle: a given engine, with a given airflow capability (displacement, heads, intake, etc.) will make a certain amount of torque, almost irregardless of what cam you put in it. Horsepower = torque*rpm/5252, always and forever, for every engine in the world.

What you are doing when you choose a cam is deciding where in the RPM band you are going to make your torque, and hence how much horsepower you will make. The higher the rpm where you make torque, the more horsepower you will make. Easy, right? Well, here comes the bad part: your average engine only has a power band, or efficiency band, that is about 3,500 rpm wide, give or take. So, if an engine runs really well at 6,000, it's going to need to be spinning at least 2,500 to get into the band where it starts to run well. When you choose a cam, you're just sliding that band up and down, and whatever you gain up top you inevitably lose at the bottom. This notion is what you will be negotiating when you talk to Greg.
 
chris308 said:
Ok, in my ongoing quest for more power, I have decided to take the plunge and do the H/C route and my next endevour...

The goal: I am looking to get around 400+ range out of my LS1 in NA form.

Current mods: TSP LT headers, X-pipe (no cats)
Granetelli catback exhaust
LS6 Intake Mani
Ported TB

So I have been doing some research and have decided to go with Patriot stageII 5.3 heads. Mainly due to the great feed back on them and the cost.
http://www.patriot-performance.com/waterNew/default.asp?T=505233&DID=1225

What I need help on is cam specs..... I have zero knowledge on what is a good cam or what will work with the heads i'm looking into.

All I know is 400+ out of the combo, must be tame for daily driving use and still give some power.

What say you....:shrug01::hehehe:
Click to expand...

Well the first ? is what is your current # now?Are you looking for brake horse power/torque or RWHP/Torque #?

The reason I asked is because depending on the your current # and close or far you are from 400+ hp/tq,you may beable to just get you present heads polished and ported and increase your air flow to get you to those #'s.Some rocker work and new valve's and you will be surprise how much more hp/tq you will get,It's alot cheaper also.Just another idea.

Changing your cam is a big decision,It will only help you if you use the vette for the right reason's,moving your power band up or down will only be applied on certian times,What I mean is,will you really use that higher or lower power that much and is it worth the money?Sure it will make your vette sound different and run alittle different but for the money I would try something else before a cam swap.But it's your time and money.If you decide to do a head and cam swap don't for get your check your lifter's to see if they will also work with your new combo.
 
WoW, good posts everybody thanks!! :thumbsup:

I'm looking for 400+ to the wheels :hehehe: As for my current #'s...?? :shrug01: I haven't been on a dyno yet, but with my mods thus far i'm predicting / expecting 300-320 rwhp. Hell I better be at that point with what I spent so far on mods!! :ack2:

I'm turning to H/C cause its financially possible at this point, as FI will not be for a few years it looks like. Its easier to piece together than it is a blower kit or turbo kit, which i'm realizing now.
 
400rwhp is easy these days. Back in the early days of the LS, 400 was the magic number. That was 1999. Now a heads/cam is in the 425-475 range typically. Sleepers can go in the 400-up area. We did one a few years back that had to look and sound stock. He made 392rwhp through manifolds and an automatic. His wife did'nt even know that anything was different. He said the extra hp was from a tune:hehehe:
 
Anti Venom said:
400rwhp is easy these days. Back in the early days of the LS, 400 was the magic number. That was 1999. Now a heads/cam is in the 425-475 range typically. Sleepers can go in the 400-up area. We did one a few years back that had to look and sound stock. He made 392rwhp through manifolds and an automatic. His wife did'nt even know that anything was different. He said the extra hp was from a tune:hehehe:
Click to expand...

Greg, thanks for the reply, 400 all day long is good news to hear.

Qwik question, by that link I posted for patriot, can you tell around what size cam i can go with w/o having to flycut pistons or anything like that. What would be better for tame idle 230 or 240 duration? I am kinda interested in EnglandGreens line of signature cams. the monster (230) or the whiplash (240). I'm open to other suggestions though of course.
 
For a tame idle, 230 and 240 are both pretty much out of the question. And if tame idle is a consideration, Stephen's cams may not be the right choice. To quote from him:

These cams will not be your usual grandfather-type baby cams - they are all loud, obstreperous, will shake your Vette and make your neighbours hate you. With the exception of the Bunny Cam, none of them are for the faint of heart.
Click to expand...

224 is probably the upper limit for a tame idle. For a stock-like idle, more like 214-216.

To put it in perspective, your car has a 196 now. A C5 Z06 is a 204. A C6ZO6 is a 210. A 230+ is a seriously large cam.

What really counts for idle quality is overlap. The longer the duration and/or the smaller the LSA, the more overlap. If all we cared about was power, most of us would be running 110 or even 108 overlaps. Instead, your typical aftermarket LSx cam is a 114 LSA. Why? To try and keep a halfway-decent idle quality. The cams typically run in LSx engines are quite large compared to what would be run in say, a Gen1 small-block Chevy. That means they end up having a lot of overlap, so they tend to have wide LSAs to try and make up for that.

Your stock cam has -30.5 overlap at .050. That makes for a pretty smooth idle. The 224/228/114, typically considered the upper end of the "nice" LSx street cams, is at -2. Big difference, and the 224/228 *will* have a noticeable lope. A classic "230" cam is the LG G5X2, which is a 232/240. On a 114, this has 8 degrees of overlap, which is a lot for a street cam. The tradional upper limit for a nice driver is 0, and that is still going to be a looooong way from a stock idle.
 
I guess i should define my def of "tame idle" as long as the car doesn't stall out at a light or slow takes offs, and as long i can still use my a/c at a stop and it doesn't die i'm ok with that.

I have an MN6 btw.

Oy, this is hurting my head :ack2: :hehehe:

Thanks again for dropping some tech knowledge on me Mr. Gannet :thumbsup:
it's slowly absorbing into my brain...:D
 
chris308 said:
I guess i should define my def of "tame idle" as long as the car doesn't stall out at a light or slow takes offs, and as long i can still use my a/c at a stop and it doesn't die i'm ok with that.
Click to expand...
Oh, in THAT case it's all in the tune. People are running very large cams and still meeting those criteria - WITH the right tune, which means done by the right guy.
 
a little update to my own post....

I have narrowed my cam decision down a little to the following sticks:

224R
228R
G5X2
G5X3

all those i would probably get a 114LSA or 112LSA if its not too difficult to tune.

by any chance would anyone local have one of those cams or something comparable to those that i can check out personally, maybe get a ride in it to see how it behaves??

Any opinions on those cams?
 
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