• Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.

427 engine (part 2) - RHS block

Actually, it looked like it was me being bashed in the last few posts on that thread, and not a vendor. One of the guys obviously had never read the entire thread or he would have known that the car hasn't been driven over the past three years, as he is claiming. And I guess he is supporting the quality of workmanship I have documented from certain shops that worked on my car as being acceptable to him...... :shrug01:

All I asked of Pfadt was to refund the money for that driveshaft rather than send me a replacement, as I have no need for it any longer as I certainly am not going to pull the driveshaft that Shane installed in there for me simply to put this carbon fiber one in there. That would be downright foolish to do. And quite honestly, the thought of having that carbon fiber drive shaft in my car has sort of lost it's luster for me.

So I just don't need a $2,000 paperweight, and would prefer to not have the additional headache of trying to sell the replacement drive shaft Pfadt would send me. I'm sure I won't be able to get anywhere near $2,000 for this item, so any money I would get from selling the thing would just be a drop in the bucket even only considering the repairs I recently had to pay for, that appear to have been caused by the over length driveshaft. Seriously, if a prospective buyer asked me point blank if I would recommend the product, I would have to say an emphatic "NO".

BTW, Chris Harwood did do some checks on that driveshaft, but I don't know how comprehensive they were. He commented that there was "30 thousandths runout" on it but I don't know what exactly he meant. He said he did talk to Pfadt about it and they said it was OK. Did they mention to him about measuring the LENGTH of that driveshaft to verify it's length? Beats me. And I know Aaron Scott told me pretty much the same thing when he had the driveshaft out, and he also spoke to Pfadt about it. So seriously now, if an over length driveshaft is such a common occurence, then why did not BOTH Chris Harwood nor Aaron Scott catch this incorrect driveshaft that Pfadt sent that was supposed to be compatible with my car? I'm wondering if the pilot shaft bearing or input shaft were showing any damage at the time that Aaron Scott was replacing the clutch.

Look back through this thread at the damages found when Shane pulled my drive shaft out of the car.

  • The pilot bearing had been drilled into by the input shaft of the drive shaft.
  • The input shaft of the drive shaft itself had the splines worn down 4mm at the end that goes into the pilot bearing.
  • The torque tube was damaged at the front end from the input shaft wobbling around there.
  • The teeth in one of the clutch disks were chewed up considerably. Just focusing on this for a moment, how hard do you think the metal is in these disks to be able to handle someone dumping a clutch at 5,000 rpm at the drag strip without just stripping them clean out of that disk IMMEDIATELY? And yet, look how much they got damaged? What caused that? This isn't some MINOR amount of force you are seeing for that to happen.

Aaron Scott put just over 400 miles on my car while he had it at his shop. I drove it home from Thomasville, GA to my garage in November. Mike Carnahan took it out for a short drive to do the tuning while he was here. I took it on three test drives after the tuning. So what, maybe at the most 700 miles on that drivetrain since it was installed by Chris Harwood, and reinstalled at least two more times while at Aaron Scott's shop and that much damage results?

I know for a FACT that there were two bolts missing on the driver's side of the bell housing attaching to the block, and the only other bolt on that same side was sticking out a quarter of an inch when I noticed it. As for the Pfadt carbon fiber drive shaft that Pfadt sent to Chris Harwood for my car, Jarrett Bryden of Pfadt claims that the length of that shaft should be 1063.5mm. I measured it at 1070.77 mm. I took that shaft to the local NAPA store here in Crawfordville and they measured the shaft as being 1070mm using a flexible tape measure and converting from inches to metric. So that shaft that Pfadt sent is 7mm longer than they say it SHOULD be for my car.

What sort of damage is likely from a loose bell housing? What sort of damage is likely from a drive shaft that is too long? What sort of damage is likely if BOTH the bell housing is loose and the drive shaft is too long?

The last time that I know of that the drivetrain and engine had been separated was when my car was outsourced by Aaron Scott to Jon McGee's Auto to have the engine pulled from the car. Would anyone have noticed a damaged pilot bearing and input shaft to the drive shaft at that time? Damn I wish I had spent more time taking photos and video like I did while the car was at Chris Harwood's shop. I think a lot of answers could be inferred from photos of the parts in question taken at points all along at this point to determine WHEN the damage actually BEGAN.

:shrug01: :shrug01: :shrug01:

I'm sure I'll never really KNOW.
 
Did you read the post there with that guy claiming that I am victimizing people? This is so hilarious that I just had to capture it here for the chuckles...

Quote by steven31371 over on CorvetteForum:
seems to me that Rich is just fishing for Pfadt to pay for other f**k ups on his car

when I was in college I worked at a high end steak house to pay my way through school...this guy comes in and orders a steak and eats half, then calls the waiter over and says its under cooked and can he have a new one, we oblige, then he does it again a second time and we oblige....the guy kept comming in over and over doing this getting free steaks...after his third time comming in and doing this I politely informed him that our world famous steaks were never good to be up to his standards, so please feel free to order something else off the menu....he never came back pulling that crap


point is, in this mammath thread spanning years and years of fiascos I havent seen Rich have one single thing go right on any part of his build or have even one Vendor or Service provider that he didnt ultimately have a big problem with and bad mouth in a very public way until he got money back or new stuff to fund his ungoing addiction to continously keeping the drama going on this car and thread, he uses very unethical bad mouthing of others professionalism to fund his corvette fever that we all have that keeps us modding our cars continuously...honestly I don't know why every vendor, tuner, amd mechanic don't politely inform Rich the Badmouthing Moocher that although they may have one of the best pedegrees for the most demanding racing apllications in the world that they unfortunatley cannot possibly provide a service or product that is good enough for him and his super vette that mysteriously breaks every part ever put on it...and run away when they hear his name.


as far as I'm concerned, you Rich, are the biggest crook in this thread who has no remorse whatsoever in destroyin folks professional reputations to further yourself getting free parts, service, or just some attention for yourself that will fuel this fiasco that has gone on for years and will likely keep going on for as long as service and product providers continue to fall for your crap.


as to this Pfadt issue...hmmm...I buy a pair of shoes three years ago that don't even come close to fitting, then I where them anyway and get blisters...I then miss work as a result and get fired and have to get therapy....three years later I call the shoe company and call them unprofessional amd unethical in a very public way that damages their repution and continue to do so until they pay for my blister care, my time off work, my therapy visits, and my pain and suffering....wow, thats a pretty good racket if you can get away with it Rich...but who is the unethical one here....the guy who sent the wrong size in the order, or the schmuck who wore them knowing they didnt fit and then waited 3 years to say or do anything about it and then called the providers professional reputation into question in as public a way as possible until you unethically got as much of a free ride from their ethical nature as you could



what an unbelievable D***

I gotta admit, you have managed to find a way to keep your corvette fever funded and moving constantly forward this way, so Kudos for the accomplishment, but did ya ever stop to think about the damage you might be causi g to peoples personal and professional lives with your bullcrap scam jobs of playing yourself off as the remarkly unlucky amd continuous victim?


three years ago you got shoes the wrong size and wore them anyway, and now not only do you want a refund or new shoes three years later, you also want tge shoe compay to pay for you blisters and pain and suffering....laughable and pathetic really...also a scam for sure

we all love to continuously mod our cars with new or sifferant stuff....but you sir, have no shame in suckering people into helping you for free and ruthlessly attacking someones reputation to get the means to fund your next mod choice
Click to expand...

:lmao: And he claims that he has read that entire thread..... :rolleyes:
 
I got the empty box from Pfadt yesterday, so I packed up the driveshaft and sent it off to them today.

So we'll see what they say about this.....
 
Benjamin said:
what did the local machinist measure it at?
Click to expand...

42 1/8th inches which is 1070mm. They used a regular inch tape measure, and I honestly was hoping for something a bit more precise.

When Shane and I measured it using a tape measure, we came up with 42 1/4 inches, but we were measuring from one of the orange colored shaft ends. Then when I got the shaft home, I used a rigid straight edge ruler and came up with 42 5/32nds being as careful and precise as I could measuring only the carbon fiber tube.
 
Oh, btw, it was Kevin at Kevin's Machine Shop in Crawfordville who I emailed about measuring that drive shaft. He banged his foot up pretty badly about a month ago, so he asked me to ask one of the other guys at the NAPA counter to do the measurement for me. I guess the two are associated in some manner.

I was hoping to get a little tour of the machine shop while doing this, as that sort of thing has always been an interest of mine, but unfortunately that didn't happen. :(
 
Well, we didn't get any rain on Sunday, but our road is pretty messed up in sections with deep ruts from all the rain the past several days. So I likely won't be taking the car out till the roads department gets around to fixing... :(
 
:banghead: Well the road just got graded but I can hear thunder on the horizon already. Radar shows the rain storms are coming back again. :shrug01:
 
Yeah, that would be OK if I were just going to be driving east. But I'm not sure I can go fast enough to be able to jump over the Atlantic Ocean to keep on going that way..... :hehehe:
 
Well, there was a break in the storms on the radar and the rain in the front I was watching passed right by us with just a light sprinkle, so I decided to run the car out for a bit. Didn't get very far, just made a short loop of about 11 miles, but better than nothing I guess. I wanted to drive longer, but I could see some heavy clouds moving in from the northwest, so I figured I had better head on back. I JUST got the car back into the garage when the rain started. Quite heavy this time. So I guess that freshly graded road is going to get messed up again.

I was monitoring the oil pressure a bit since Shane had commented on it when he had the car, as did Aaron when it was in his shop. It was around 40 psi when I left the garage, which seemed OK to me. But by the time I got back from that short drive, here's what I saw:
  • Coolant temp = 208 degrees
  • Oil temp = 226 degrees
  • Oil pressure = 23 psi

Oil in the car is Brad-Penn SAE 10w30.

I've sent those figures to Bryan at LME to see what he thinks.

But what actually determines oil pressure? I know the oil pump is pushing the oil out of it, but what is the oil being forced against in order to generate a pressure reading? Aaron put those big lines on both of the valve covers going to a sort of catch can with an air filter element on it, so does vapor pressure in the block from ignition byproducts contribute to the oil pressure reading? And I've got that PCV line running to another catch can between the valley cover and the throttle body. And what about the oil being pumped to the turbos? Does that affect the crankcase oil pressure? Are the oil lines running too close to the headers and heating up the oil on it's trip to and from the turbos?

Just trying to figure out what I am actually seeing.... :shrug01:

Maybe going to a 40 weight oil might help?

In any event, the car drives really well. The clutch feels just like stock and I have no trouble at all moving from a dead stop or shifting gears. No rattles or odd noises at all. That MGW shifter is pretty stiff, but it might just be my feeble right elbow complaining about it.
 
The major cause of low oil pressure, aside from the pump, is increased bearing clearances.
Rod, main, and camshaft bearings all contribute to the pressure. The tighter the clearance,
the higher the pressure will be. Are you reading the pressure with a mechanical oil pressure
gauge, or are you getting it from the hud or dic? Those 2 are not as accurate as a
mechanical gauge, and should be compared with a mechanical gauge to see if there
are any inconsistencies. The filter might be a contributor as well
Andy :wavey:
 
navy2kcoupe said:
The major cause of low oil pressure, aside from the pump, is increased bearing clearances.
Rod, main, and camshaft bearings all contribute to the pressure. The tighter the clearance,
the higher the pressure will be. Are you reading the pressure with a mechanical oil pressure
gauge, or are you getting it from the hud or dic? Those 2 are not as accurate as a
mechanical gauge, and should be compared with a mechanical gauge to see if there
are any inconsistencies. The filter might be a contributor as well
Andy :wavey:
Click to expand...

I used both the gauge on my dash as well as the DIC display. I'm assuming they are both reading the same signal.
 
Yep! Both come from the oil pressure sender that's either under the cowl, or relocated
somewhere else. Mine does the same thing. Starts out at about 40# then drops after the
engine warms up. I really don't know how accurate those senders are.
Andy :wavey:
 
Well, I've been looking around on anything I can find concerning oil pressure, and it mostly seems related to the clearances on the bearings. It looks like my main crank bearings having .0025 inches is in the high side for an aluminum block, but most people say being on the loose side is better than being on the tight side. The negative drawback is lower oil pressure readings.

I guess what is important is whether oil is getting where it needs to be. Lower pressure can actually mean higher flow, which isn't a bad thing. Pressure is actually resistance against flow. The oil pump shown on the engine spec sheet is a Melling HP ported pump, pn #10295, which from what I am reading is designed specifically for higher flow in engines with wider bearing clearances. Which seems to be exactly what I have here.

So far the direct feedback I have gotten from some engine builders is that the oil pressure is OK.

Bryan at LME got back to me and suggested going to a heavier weight oil, specifically Joe Gibbs 01607 15W-50. Since he is the guy who built the engine, then he's pretty high on the totem pole as to who I think I should listen to. BUT, I need to check into this. I think this is a RACING oil, so I'm not sure Bryan realizes this engine is in a STREET car. From what I understand there are some differences in the two types of oil that I need to become more versed on before making a decision. I thought racing oils did not have detergents in it to help keep the inside of the engine clean. But it's not like I am going to let the engine go for long stretches without changing the oil.

Ah well, guess I just need to keep filling up my head with car and engine topics.... My cup runneth over....
 
I'm not sure if they make a multi viscosity engine oil WITHOUT detergents.
I always thought that the straight weight oils were the only ones to come in a non-detergent
formula, but I'll probably be proven wrong on this one as well........
Andy :wavey:
 
navy2kcoupe said:
I'm not sure if they make a multi viscosity engine oil WITHOUT detergents.
I always thought that the straight weight oils were the only ones to come in a non-detergent
formula, but I'll probably be proven wrong on this one as well........
Andy :wavey:
Click to expand...

Heck, I don't know..... They all seem to have a healthy dose of snake oil in their advertising copy as well........
 
Took the car out for a drive of 33 miles today. And I set the DIC to display the oil pressure so I could monitor it the entire trip. I also toggled to the oil temperature every now and again as well.

Started up cold (well 85 degrees, since that was the temp inside the garage overnight) the oil pressure was at 49 psi. While driving out of the driveway it was hitting 50 psi. By the time I got up to Tallahassee, oil temp was 208 degrees and oil pressure was running 35 psi at around 1500 rpm. Sitting at idle it was around 26 psi with what looked like 950 rpm. Stayed pretty much stable on the drive back home, but idle oil pressure did drop down to 23 psi while sitting out in front of the garage before pulling it in. I could see the oil pressure keeping track with engine speed pretty easily and uniformly while driving, so that seemed normal to me.

So obviously the oil (Brad-Penn SAE 10W-30) thins out substantially when hot. Also, I have read that aluminum blocks will expand quite a bit when hot, so that makes bearing clearances wider when the engine is hot, which also contributes to lower oil pressure. This certainly seems to be the case here. But the engine builders I talked to said that as long as I have at least 10 psi of oil pressure per 1,000 rpm of engine speed, then there is nothing to worry about. They also said they would much prefer building an engine too loose than too tight. Especially when it can produce substantial amounts of power. As one said "If you make the crank bearings loose, no one knows. If you make them tight, everyone knows." So I'm guessing tight clearances can be a bad thing on those crank and rod bearings.

So anyway, I feel like there is nothing really to worry about with the oil pressure. I'm still going to try that 15W-50 weight oil to see what it does to the oil pressure, but if I hadn't already ordered it, I probably wouldn't bother with it at all.

Oh, btw, I did check with STS to make sure that heavier oil would be OK with the turbos and scavenge pump. I was told there would be no problems whatsoever.

Anyway, the clutch felt good and shifting was without any issues. But I did have a bit of a scare at a stop light when I distinctly smelled gasoline. I started sweating it thinking I wished I had thrown a fire extinguisher into the trunk before I left. But it must have been someone else, because after pulling away from the light, I didn't smell it again. Whew...... I guess I'm going to be pretty paranoid about stuff like this for a while yet.

I will say this about the car.... It doesn't take much pressure on the gas pedal to get it to M-O-V-E........ :hehehe:
 
The car is actually accumulating miles! Awesome. Who knew you'd have to take it to a dealership to get it in running order?

After a bad coolant leak on my truck (2 freeze plugs blew), it took a couple of years before I quit freaking out every time I smelled coolant when stopped at a light (which is amazingly often). I'm pretty sure I used to be able to smell someone open a coolant jug at least 5 houses down. If your lawn mower runs just a tad rich, you'll know it for a while, but you will get over it sooner than one might think.
 
I am not surprised it took a dealership to fix it. If they have a good certified tech it can make all the difference. I don't know if the other people that worked on the car were certified and had as much experience. Your dealership tech nailed it with the driveshaft being the issue and did the correct thing advising you use a stock setup.
We have a Master Tech at the local dealership here in Stuart Fl that loves working on Corvettes. I was having GMPP warranty work done a few years back to replace a bad slave and I asked how much to put an LS7 clutch and PP in since there would be no labor charge while they were already in there. The Tech said GM does not yet recommend this setup (this was when people were just starting to put the LS7 clutch in C5's) and said the LS6 upgrade would do fine for my mostly stock LS1 C5. I was thinking the 4:10's might need a better clutch but he said I would be fine. Anyway, the LS6 clutch has been flawless and I could not be happier. We all now know the LS7 will work just fine as long as you keep the LS1 slave. I always ask if he will be working on my car before I take it in. The service writer and I have a good relationship. I always bring him a gift card at Christmas time.
Glad it seems to be working well for you Rich. Was following your thread on the CF.
 
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