427 engine (part 2) - RHS block

[Rich Z]

Figured I would take some pics of one of the new Tial wastegates that came in.

The last one shows how close the diaphragm comes to the hole for the pressure fitting coming from the turbo. I bought some banjo bolts that were too long, so I figured I would try my hand on my little Emco-Maier lathe to try to cut off 0.155 inches. Sheesh, THAT didn't go well. Been YEARS since I've played with that lathe, and I couldn't remember much about the tooling. Completely forgot about using the tailstock center so the bolt came loose and got the head boogered up. Plus I'm obviously doing something wrong as I can't get the tool head to line up the cutting edge with the center of the chuck.

Anyway, I was looking at Summit Racing's website again figuring I had better order a few more of those banjo bolts because it might take me a couple of tries to get that cut done right. Well, long story short, Earl's makes a shorter banjo bolt, but Summit's site just doesn't show any length data for them, so my guess as to which one I needed was just wrong. So hopefully the new ones I ordered will be the correct size. I also found out that Fragola has .3AN SS hoses with a -3AN end and a banjo fitting on the other so I might not have to have an extra fitting connection. I think these are all brake lines, but they should do the trick to just provide pressurized air from the compressor housing to the wastegate.

One other thing I need to figure out is how to properly drill and tap a 1/8 NPT hole into the turbo compressor housings. Evidently this is a tapered fitting, so I can't just run the tap all the way through the hole. Maybe I should practice on something else before I booger up a housing...... In any event, I'm thinking that with it being a tapered threaded hole, I might be able to control the direction I want that fitting to face by being careful about how far I run the tap into the hole. I want to use a 90 degree 1/8 NPT to -3AN fitting and it sure would be nice if I could get the fitting to face towards the waste gate. I guess this sort of thing is why good machinists earn the big bucks.

 

[navy2kcoupe]

Rich, do those wastegates look as good in person as they do in the pictures?
Those things look awesome! :thumbsup: It's almost a shame to hide them
under the car and expose them to all of that heat. What's the workmanship
look like close up?
Andy :wavey:

 

[Rich Z]

Rich, do those wastegates look as good in person as they do in the pictures?
Those things look awesome! :thumbsup: It's almost a shame to hide them
under the car and expose them to all of that heat. What's the workmanship
look like close up?
Andy :wavey:

Hah! No, no Photoshop touch-up. They is what they is as the camera sees them.

They actually look VERY well made. Even MADE IN THE USA. Maybe I should buy another set and mount them on the wall as souvenirs of an age in passing...

 

[Benjamin]

As for a "professional driver" and a closed course, not sure where I could find something like that nearby. I believe redline on the engine is 7000 rpm if I remember correctly, so not likely I could (nor would want to) do that on even the little traveled roads around here.

that was a subtle way of saying find a straight deserted road with a nice flat surface, no houses, people, tractors or livestock in the area and you be the driver.

 

[Rich Z]

that was a subtle way of saying find a straight deserted road with a nice flat surface, no houses, people, tractors or livestock in the area and you be the driver.

Yeah. I get the hint. There are plenty of pretty deserted roads in these parts, but hitting a deer at 160 mph will likely just ruin my day. And there are LOTS of deer around here.

 

[85vette]

Yeah. I get the hint. There are plenty of pretty deserted roads in these parts, but hitting a deer at 160 mph will likely just ruin my day. And there are LOTS of deer around here.

Yes, he's not kidding. Deer and bears. I have handed out many crash report short forms in his county for this.

 

[Benjamin]

you could always go to a drag strip on a test and tune night, preferably a 1/4 mile one, leave softly and easily and get into 3rd or 4th and flat foot it at a low RPM. the surface should be fairly well prepped and should limit wheel spin if you have decent tires, you would have safety personnel there if something were to happen, reduced risk of animals coming out of nowhere, good lighting etc.

just a thought, depending on the crowd, you might could get in 4-6 test passes with valuable data logging doing WOT runs through the RPM range, basically the same info you would get from data logging a dyno session....

who cares what time you run, you are there to just do some test pulls.....

 

[Rich Z]

you could always go to a drag strip on a test and tune night, preferably a 1/4 mile one, leave softly and easily and get into 3rd or 4th and flat foot it at a low RPM. the surface should be fairly well prepped and should limit wheel spin if you have decent tires, you would have safety personnel there if something were to happen, reduced risk of animals coming out of nowhere, good lighting etc.

just a thought, depending on the crowd, you might could get in 4-6 test passes with valuable data logging doing WOT runs through the RPM range, basically the same info you would get from data logging a dyno session....

who cares what time you run, you are there to just do some test pulls.....

Yeah, I wouldn't mind doing something like that. But I don't have any idea of where the nearest drag strips might be. That being said, I guess I always could check around to see if someone relatively near by has an adequate dyno I could use. I could always run it up to Mike Carnahan, but he's up north of Atlanta, and that would be a bit farther than I want to drive the car quite yet.

 

[Benjamin]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind doing something like that. But I don't have any idea of where the nearest drag strips might be. That being said, I guess I always could check around to see if someone relatively near by has an adequate dyno I could use. I could always run it up to Mike Carnahan, but he's up north of Atlanta, and that would be a bit farther than I want to drive the car quite yet.

SGMP in Cecil GA is a 1/4 mile. there aught to be a few in the pan handle of FL or southern most part of Alabama.

I also have no clue how to see who has a dyno for use near to you.....

 

[85vette]

The closest drag strips I know are in Gainesville, Fl., and Madison, Fl. SS Performance Group has the only dyno in the area that I'm aware of.

 

[Rich Z]

The closest drag strips I know are in Gainesville, Fl., and Madison, Fl. SS Performance Group has the only dyno in the area that I'm aware of.

As I mentioned, there is no one with a dyno nearby that I am aware of that I will take my car to.

 

[Rich Z]

Still waiting on a couple of hoses coming directly from Fragola via Summit Racing. In the mean time I found a piece of metal thick enough but not TOO thick and practiced drilling and tapping a tapered 1/8 npt hole. Actually is a piece of cake. Just don't tap using more than 2/3rds of the tap and then it looks like I'll be able to position the 90 degree fitting I want to use to point exactly in the right direction to point towards the wastegate. Just pull out the tap, test the fitting, and if not pointed in the right direction, tap a little bit more and keep on doing this till the fitting will be where I want it when TIGHT.

Oh yeah, and the new banjo bolts by Earl's came in and they are exactly the correct length to fit into the wastegates. Too bad Summit's website doesn't show actual lengths of them, otherwise I could have ordered the correct ones right off the bat.

I have to admit that with all this stuff I've had to do working on my car, dealing with fittings (fuel, air, etc.) has been the biggest pain in the butt. Besides the original two pains, of course. :rofl1: Anyway, I spent countless hours trying to not only figure out what I needed to do what I wanted to do, but trying to locate what I needed without knowing the lingo and nomenclature was rather tough. Sometimes I got stymied because I just could not find what I wanted, and had to go with a PLAN B. Sometimes I just had to order a couple of different things because based on the written descriptions and low res photos, it was impossible to determine if they were what I needed without having them in hand.

 

[Benjamin]

first is a map of a T-3 "60" trim sourced from www.turbocharged.com with the above variables blotted on it.

1.68 P/R, lower RPM flow at 19.65lb/min and upper limit at 39.9lb/min
View attachment 5732

I was thinking, IF the turbo's are a true T-3 / T-4 configuration with the T-3 hot side and T-4 cold side, the T-4 60 trim cold setup does work OK with your numbers, but you could benefit from more boost or less back pressure. it takes more exhaust drive pressure to drive the larger T-4 compressor wheel when using a T-3 turbine and exhaust housing than a T-3 compressor wheel and T-3 turbine and exhaust housing........

 

[Rich Z]

I was thinking, IF the turbo's are a true T-3 / T-4 configuration with the T-3 hot side and T-4 cold side, the T-4 60 trim cold setup does work OK with your numbers, but you could benefit from more boost or less back pressure. it takes more exhaust drive pressure to drive the larger T-4 compressor wheel when using a T-3 turbine and exhaust housing than a T-3 compressor wheel and T-3 turbine and exhaust housing........

View attachment 5740

Well, they are SUPPOSED to be Garrett T3/T4 turbos. :shrug01: What should I check for to be certain? As soon as the two hoses I am waiting for come in, I'll be pulling off the compressor housings to drill and tap the holes for the wastegate plumbing.

 

[Benjamin]

you can measure the inducer and exducer on the compressor side to verify the trim is correct and to know what sizes they are for future reference...

 

[Rich Z]

you can measure the inducer and exducer on the compressor side to verify the trim is correct and to know what sizes they are for future reference...

OK, thanks. But I'm not going to be taking off the turbine housing, only the compressor side.

Haven't these turbo companies ever heard of model numbers or other identifying marks they can stamp the housings with to more easily ID them? :crazy03:

 

[Rich Z]

Haven't felt real ambitious the last few days, but I did drag myself over to the garage today and got the new wastegates mounted.

I've been trying to find end caps to screw onto those male fittings that were connecting the wastegates up to the back of the intake manifold. No way I'm going to pull off the manifold just to pull off that hose and plug it there. So I've been searching all over the place for female 10mm x 1.0mm threaded caps with no luck at all. So heck, I decided to just make them myself. I've got the tap for that thread, so why not? Waiting for a new drill chuck attachment to my baby lathe so I can drill the hole I need using the lathe. My quarter inch drill chuck is just a hair too small for the 11/32ths drill bit I need to use. Then just a matter of running the flat bottomed tap through it to cut the threads, cut the end off of the brass rod stock I'm using, and start on the second one. I'll probably chuck the ends up in the milling machine so I can cut some flats on the sides for a wrench to be able to grab onto.

 

[Benjamin]

OK, thanks. But I'm not going to be taking off the turbine housing, only the compressor side.

Haven't these turbo companies ever heard of model numbers or other identifying marks they can stamp the housings with to more easily ID them? :crazy03:

That pic was just for reference, as I said to check the inducer and exducer of the compressor side since I knew you wanted to just remove the compressor housing. they are commonly measured in MM.

the labeling would be too easy and would accommodate the end user if they forgot exactly what they had later on down the road.

that being said, there are WAY too many different combinations of turbos out there, between using a bigger exhaust wheel to eliminate back pressure to smaller wheels for better spoolup, then the trim of the compressor side for flow and pressure, there are likely endless combinations that could be had. even if a turbo had an ID tag on it, what if someone changed out stuff and had the housing machined to accept a bigger wheel, then the tag would be invalid for that turbo.

even in my job, the most logical things are never the norm.

 

[85vette]

Rich's Tuning Center, Detailing Shop, Machine Shop, and former serpentarium.....You really need a hobby Rich.....:rofl1:

 

[Rich Z]

Rich's Tuning Center, Detailing Shop, Machine Shop, and former serpentarium.....You really need a hobby Rich.....:rofl1:

I'm also growing insectivorous plants..... Does that count? :lmao:

I SERIOUSLY want a bigger lathe. The little one I got is OK, but working on anything bigger than, say, a bullet projectile, is pushing the limits with it.

Nothing huge, just big enough to not be stymied because it is too small. Actually my biggest hurtle would be just getting it inside the garage and set up on a stand. Even the smaller of the next step up for me is going to be around 250 lbs or better. Connie and I just can't manage that sort of lifting any longer. But I've been thinking of ways around that. Maybe I could use the lift to manhandle it into place off of the back of Connie's truck. I'll have to see how far the lift's arms extend the next time there isn't a car sitting on it.