427 engine (part 2) - RHS block

[Gannet]

And to clarify, even if you go to a "big" shop, if you ask for a complicated one-off build, a 9 to 12 month turnaround is not at all unusual.

 

[Rich Z]

There's a lot to be said for not doing this. :crazy03:

Amen, brother!!!!!

OTOH, in my case, and I think perhaps in Rich's, it was one of those things I always wanted to do, ever since I was a kid, and I was getting to a point in life where I had to start doing some of those things or else write them off.

Yeah, I hear that! In my case I just wanted a 427 in my C5 Z06. And figured I might as well go whole hog with it. But realistically, and in hindsight, this isn't the sort of thing to do later on in life when you want things to be smoothed out in your life. Besides, now I'm wondering if I will actually live long enough to drive my car again. Sounds far fetched? Heck back in October if you had told me that nine months later I STILL wouldn't have my car back on the road, I would have thought THAT was far fetched....

So yeah, Dave, when our cars are done, we'll have to tip a few Sprites and exchange "war" stories....

 

[shakedown067]

So yeah, Dave, when our cars are done, we'll have to tip a few Sprites and exchange "war" stories....

I say a photoshoot will be in order. I'll volunteer my time and camera for ya!

 

[Lou G]

And to clarify, even if you go to a "big" shop, if you ask for a complicated one-off build, a 9 to 12 month turnaround is not at all unusual.

Thanks Gannet. I don't intend to do anything like that but I don't think I could handle not being able to ride my car for that long.

I am sure that it will be worth the wait for you and Rich but I would be going nuts by now.

 

[vetteguy61]

Hey Rich what's the status of your car? Any word from Chris on when the parts will be in and installed? Chris was going to put my shortblock in last Friday. Haven't heard anything from him so I don't know if it was or not.
Sure hope you get yours back soon!!!!!!

 

[Rich Z]

Didn't hear from him yesterday, but got an email from him today around 3pm saying he was tied up in meetings for his new building. He's supposed to call me back this evening.

So no, I don't know if anything has shown up to get this thing moving along again.

 

[vetteguy61]

Well I sure hope he calls you. I may run out there Thursday to see if my motor is in. I have a bad feeling it's not in yet.

 

[Rich Z]

Well, I never did hear back from Chris today, so I have no idea what is going on. If he doesn't have those parts from Edelbrock or a confirmed ETA for this week, then he's going to have to come up with a PLAN B to get this back on track.

 

[Rich Z]

Well, I talked to Chris today and he says the stuff from Edelbrock won't be showing up till Friday.... :banghead: So yeah, another week down the tubes. Heading rapidly towards the 10 month mark since I pulled the car into the shop. :shrug01:

 

[Bob K]

Well, I talked to Chris today and he says the stuff from Edelbrock won't be showing up till Friday.... :banghead: So yeah, another week down the tubes. Heading rapidly towards the 10 month mark since I pulled the car into the shop. :shrug01:

I would be calling the damn supplier to see what the hold up is. What a damn shame is all I can say.

 

[vetteguy61]

Sorry to hear that Rich. Mine has been there over 5 months now and I still don't know if the short block was put in last Fri. Maybe I'll have a nice Christmas present when I get it back.

 

[Gannet]

I would be calling the damn supplier to see what the hold up is. What a damn shame is all I can say.

Now, what does the "damn" supplier have to do with it? This is the way the high-performance business, and indeed pretty much any low-volume specialty business (which all hot rodding is) works. This ain't Sears. The suppliers don't have a lot of inventory sitting around, especially since the economy crashed, because they can't afford it. That cascades, in that they themselves have to work with their suppliers, usually on short runs. That all takes time, not necessarily because anybody is sitting on their hands, or doesn't care, but just due to the economic facts of life. Believe me, all the suppliers would love to ship the same day, and hence get paid, so they could buy their kids the GI Joe with the Kung-Fu Grip.

This is why these big custom projects take so long, and why every shop that does them loses money on them. Shops do them for the pleasure of it, the reputation, the advertising, etc, but not to make a buck. Indeed, more than one good shop has gone broke by taking on too many of these. Having your hoist and/or floor space tied up on one job for months on end is not an efficient use of capital.

For anyone considering one of these for your own car, this is how it is, and if you can't remain calm and good-natured (mostly, at least) during the process, it's not for you.

But if you want that extra-special car, something that will often be the "top" car at a gathering, something that everyone will crowd around, well, you either do this, buy one that somebody else did, or do it yourself. The alternative is to drive something mostly stock, and enjoy your car, but accept that yours will be very like thousands of others. You pays your money (and sometimes your time, and patience) and you takes your choice.

Sorry for the soapbox routine, Rich.

 

[Gannet]

To give one example, it took two months to get my crankshaft. They make them in batches, and it so happened I ordered right after they had just sold the last of the previous batch. The batch cycle time is two months. So...it took two months.

 

[RevXtreme 1]

Dang it Gannet! You have a better understanding on this than most in the biz! Have to agree with everything you have said here. Just in time inventory is the norm nowdays, not many keep a fortune tied up in inventory like the old days. Drop shipping is also far more common than I ever thought.

When I had the drag team, it didn't matter that we had a $100k race to run the next week, if the crank/pistons/cam we needed was not available, it was a wait no matter how we screamed. So the expense on carrying a spare $20k motor, $4k trans, $several $1200 converters, etc. was the only way we could compete like we did. We would be on the road sometimes 2-3 months without a break and the stacker had a gantry & hoist for changing engines and virtually a complete shop inside.

Now, what does the "damn" supplier have to do with it? This is the way the high-performance business, and indeed pretty much any low-volume specialty business (which all hot rodding is) works. This ain't Sears. The suppliers don't have a lot of inventory sitting around, especially since the economy crashed, because they can't afford it. That cascades, in that they themselves have to work with their suppliers, usually on short runs. That all takes time, not necessarily because anybody is sitting on their hands, or doesn't care, but just due to the economic facts of life. Believe me, all the suppliers would love to ship the same day, and hence get paid, so they could buy their kids the GI Joe with the Kung-Fu Grip.

This is why these big custom projects take so long, and why every shop that does them loses money on them. Shops do them for the pleasure of it, the reputation, the advertising, etc, but not to make a buck. Indeed, more than one good shop has gone broke by taking on too many of these. Having your hoist and/or floor space tied up on one job for months on end is not an efficient use of capital.

For anyone considering one of these for your own car, this is how it is, and if you can't remain calm and good-natured (mostly, at least) during the process, it's not for you.

But if you want that extra-special car, something that will often be the "top" car at a gathering, something that everyone will crowd around, well, you either do this, buy one that somebody else did, or do it yourself. The alternative is to drive something mostly stock, and enjoy your car, but accept that yours will be very like thousands of others. You pays your money (and sometimes your time, and patience) and you takes your choice.

Sorry for the soapbox routine, Rich.

 

[Bob K]

I emailed Bryan at LME about this, since realistically this is his problem, but so far no response.

Why in the world RHS doesn't offer the parts themselves to fix this complication sure beats the heck out of me.

Chris told me he found what he needs from Edelbrock, which I assume is a bung and a timing chain cover, so those are what I am assuming is on order. I still haven't gotten any reply from Bryan at LME about this. I sure would like to know why I am having this silly-assed problem right now with that EXPENSIVE engine they built for me.... :toetap05:

And to clarify, even if you go to a "big" shop, if you ask for a complicated one-off build, a 9 to 12 month turnaround is not at all unusual.

Was Rich told 9 to 12 months?

Well, I talked to Chris today and he says the stuff from Edelbrock won't be showing up till Friday.... :banghead: So yeah, another week down the tubes. Heading rapidly towards the 10 month mark since I pulled the car into the shop. :shrug01:

Sorry to hear that Rich. Mine has been there over 5 months now and I still don't know if the short block was put in last Fri. Maybe I'll have a nice Christmas present when I get it back.

Now, what does the "damn" supplier have to do with it?

Sorry for the soapbox routine, Rich.

Does this help clarify what I mean? If you still don't get it send me a PM. I might also add that more than a few of us have had engines built and if you keep going you're going to need a ladder to get off that box you put yourself on.

 

[Rich Z]

Now, what does the "damn" supplier have to do with it? This is the way the high-performance business, and indeed pretty much any low-volume specialty business (which all hot rodding is) works. This ain't Sears. The suppliers don't have a lot of inventory sitting around, especially since the economy crashed, because they can't afford it. That cascades, in that they themselves have to work with their suppliers, usually on short runs. That all takes time, not necessarily because anybody is sitting on their hands, or doesn't care, but just due to the economic facts of life. Believe me, all the suppliers would love to ship the same day, and hence get paid, so they could buy their kids the GI Joe with the Kung-Fu Grip.

This is why these big custom projects take so long, and why every shop that does them loses money on them. Shops do them for the pleasure of it, the reputation, the advertising, etc, but not to make a buck. Indeed, more than one good shop has gone broke by taking on too many of these. Having your hoist and/or floor space tied up on one job for months on end is not an efficient use of capital.

For anyone considering one of these for your own car, this is how it is, and if you can't remain calm and good-natured (mostly, at least) during the process, it's not for you.

But if you want that extra-special car, something that will often be the "top" car at a gathering, something that everyone will crowd around, well, you either do this, buy one that somebody else did, or do it yourself. The alternative is to drive something mostly stock, and enjoy your car, but accept that yours will be very like thousands of others. You pays your money (and sometimes your time, and patience) and you takes your choice.

Sorry for the soapbox routine, Rich.

No worries..... Trust me, I try to keep objective about this and not become paranoid and delusional that God just hates my guts. I know this is just as much a pain in the butt for Chris as it is me, which is why I'm trying hard for us to not go for each other's throats when the frustration level just overwhelms us. I know he just walks away from my car sometimes because he is tired of seeing it. I don't like it one bit, but I do understand it. Neither one of us expected what this has become, and I'm actually surprised that he didn't gleefully welcome my pulling the car out of his shop a little while back when I threatened to do so. I think if he could have done so and still retained "face" over the whole thing he certainly would have done it in a heartbeat.

To give one example, it took two months to get my crankshaft. They make them in batches, and it so happened I ordered right after they had just sold the last of the previous batch. The batch cycle time is two months. So...it took two months.

Yeah, that's pretty much what happened with us concerning the RHS block. The biggest wrinkle in this whole mess was that Warhawk crap from World Products. Had the original engine been of decent quality, We would have had my car finished long ago.

Dave, btw, do you have a thread anywhere describing what you are having done to your car? I would like to read it if you don't mind.

 

[Gannet]

Dave, btw, do you have a thread anywhere describing what you are having done to your car? I would like to read it if you don't mind.

I apologize for being mysterious; it's not my way. I haven't had a whole lot to say per a request from someone who is helping me with obtaining parts. The whole Vette community will know about it after it's done, I'll say that much.

I couldn't totally hold it in, though, so there are pics of the engine here: Head Thread and here Complete Engine Pics. If any of our "banned" members can't open these, let me know and I'll work something out. :lmao:

Here's the basic spec:

427, 9.8:1 scr, F1-A blower, 10 psi w/"street" pulley and tune, 17 psi w/"race" pulley & tune. As far as power goals, it makes what it makes. But I'm hoping for 725+ in "street" tune and 925+ in "race" tune.

All engine work by Fast Forward Racing Engines of Zephyrhills, Florida, with the exception of heads by West Coast Cylinder Heads.

Parts list:

GMPP LSX block, standard deck, 2nd design
Callies Dragonslayer 4" crank
Oliver Speedway rods
Diamond custom pistons, H-13 pins
Calico skirt coating
Total Seal ring set, steel top ring, .043 1/16 3/16
Calico coated main and rod bearings
ATI SuperDamper, 7.5" LS7 8-rib supercharger
ARP head studs ("6 bolt")
ARP main studs
GMPP LSX head gaskets
GMPP LSX/LS7 heads
Del West Ti intake valves
REV stainless exhaust valves
PRC EHT valve springs
Stage 2 head porting, combustion chambers opened up to 73cc, setup, and assembly by WCCH
LS7 intake and throttle body ported by Pete Incaudo
Custom Comp cam 232/256 .630/.630 114/110, inspired by Ragin' Racin'
Morel link-bar lifters, .750" rollers
Trend double-tapered 3/8" pushrods, .080" wall
Stock LS7 rockers w/CHE bushing conversion
Cloyes Extreme HexAdjust timing set
Katech valve covers and coil mounts
ProCharger F1-A head unit
ProCharger 8-rib bracket and pullies

 

[Rich Z]

Yeah, looks like you bit off a BIG chunk too, with this... :thumbsup:

Has your wife been smacking you alongside your head like Connie has been doing to me? :lmao:

 

[Rich Z]

Oh, just a note... I can't see the pics in those links you provided. Perhaps it's because I'm not logged into LS1tech.com... :shrug01:

 

[Gannet]

Oh, just a note... I can't see the pics in those links you provided. Perhaps it's because I'm not logged into LS1tech.com... :shrug01:

Ok then, with your permission, here are pics:

Again, if these don't work, let me know.