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Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581
Thank you, everyone!
Rich Z.
Yes, it is a two piece bell housing, but in order to get off that bottom inspection section, the headers (meaning the entire exhaust system) would have to come off.
I guess a lot depends on whether I ask the guy from Tampa to come up here to help me, or if I just take it to the Chevrolet dealer and let Shane take a look. I can see pros and cons to doing it either way.
MAN...........That SUX!
I really hope it's something simple and not a major show stopper. I can't imagine what
it must be like to drive something with that much power. Must have a tendency to
get a little "squirrelly" at the drop of a hat (or maybe pedal). Good luck finding out
what's causing the ruckus.
Andy :wavey:
Been looking over a bunch of old videos I took while the car was being worked on at Harwood's shop to try to take a look at everything involving the drive train, looking for any clues that may be pertinent to the latest problem. I was reading a vette magazine and noticed some polyurethane driveshaft couplers in an ad, and I was under the impression that Harwood put solid metal couplers on my driveshaft. I was assuming that was making some of the chattering noise because of a lack of play or flex. Well, come to find out that the Pfadt carbon fiber driveshaft doesn't utilize couplers, as apparently the shaft itself has enough flex so that the couplers aren't needed. So I wanted to take a look at that.
Yep, sure enough. No couplers. So that kind of rules out the couplers as making any noise, I guess.
I have some video of the pilot bearing install as well as the clutch being installed, and quite honestly I don't see anything wrong (from my novice viewpoint) that Harwood might have done wrong in that install. Well, except that he put in the cheaper Fidanza clutch, that is, that we found about later on. So that was replaced by Aaron at his shop. Unfortunately, I don't have ANY video of such activity while at Aaron's shop, because quite frankly I just trusted him and didn't think I needed to keep watch over my car while it was with him. Yeah, VERY unfortunate that I thought that way, in my opinion. So there is no video evidence of what might have happened when the clutch that is now in the car was installed. Plus when Aaron farmed the work out to have the engine pulled by another shop, I have no idea what may have happened at that time concerning the drive train.
I'll do a video later of that initial clutch install, but honestly, it looks like someone would have to work pretty hard to screw that up. The disks are labeled as to their orientation and everything bolts together without much room for error that I can see. As long as they read the instructions and pay attention, any way. Since Aaron told me the flywheel and pressure plate were burned because they weren't designed to hold the power the engine was putting out, I have to assume that the entire package was replaced, flywheel and all.
Oh yeah, and I specifically asked Aaron to verify that the carbon fiber drive shaft was still in the car when he pulled the trans and diff to send to RPM and he said that yes, it was still there. I can only hope that he REALLY checked it.
I haven't taken the car out for any more test driving lately. I guess I've just not been in the mood much to deal with it yet.
But today I put the car up on the lift because I wanted to inspect the flywheel to see if there were any sort of witness marks indicating that the starter gear was contacting the teeth of the flywheel when it shouldn't be. But no, I didn't see any indication of that. So while I was there, I decided to check around for everything that might look out of place or be not as I think it should be.
Well yeah, I can see that at least one bolt holding the torque tube bell housing to the engine is not even close to being tightened down, much less torqued to specs....
I can't see any of the other bolts at the top of the bell housing, so no telling if there are others loose up there as well. Honestly, with the number of bolts I have found loose or completely missing, I have to face the possibility that there are bolts loose or missing on the clutch itself, or even the flywheel possibly being the cause of this racket I've heard.
Well, I'll cross my fingers for you it's just the bell housing that's loose. Not that even that is a quick or easy fix. I still can't get over that these guys get paid to goof off working on someone else's car. They clearly didn't pay attention to any details, which is why they get paid to work on cars. Otherwise anyone could build them. Mind boggling.
There is still an unexplainable "why" to this. I'm having trouble coming to grips with any reason why I would have been treated like this by someone who is supposed to be competent and has an otherwise good reputation.
Very true, but still seems simple. One dude was lazy and incompetent, the other clearly didn't want to deal with someone else's left overs, and at the end just wanted your car out of his shop. No one should be treated this way, no one.
Just a couple more months and you can probably be a certified mechanic with all the documentation you have here!
Very true, but still seems simple. One dude was lazy and incompetent, the other clearly didn't want to deal with someone else's left overs, and at the end just wanted your car out of his shop. No one should be treated this way, no one.
Well yeah, maybe I guess. I can understand getting frustrated and just giving up, but in my opinion I would think anyone reflecting THEIR quality of workmanship (or lack thereof) in such a blatant manner as I have found expressed on my car would embarrass the hell out them if they had even a shred of a conscience or pride in themselves. 14 months and $22K later THIS is what they consider as acceptable to tell a customer that their car is ready to go? I am sorry, but that just boggles my mind.
Well if the guys who worked on my car are considered as "certified mechanics" then that certainly doesn't appear to be a very difficult target to hit, in my opinion.
Not that I have any intention of going that route, of course. I believe that all the wrenching I have had to do on this car has really screwed up my elbow. So becoming a mechanic is certainly never going to be in the cards for me. I'm not sure how much I am going to be able to do even on my own vehicles any longer.
Yep, couldn't agree more. I'm seeing this kind of work more and more in every aspect of workmanship. No one takes the extra effort without charging you double...for still only doing half of what they could actually do, but making you believe they are doing double for you. It's getting ugly out there and I believe there are A LOT of parents that need to be slapped! This kind of lack of respect for others starts at a very young age...seems side tracked, but I think I'm right on track.
BTW, I talked with Shane at Champion Chevrolet again today. I told him I was ready to just bring the car into the shop and let him tear the drivetrain apart to find out what is going on. Seeing that loose bolt on the bell housing spooked me, so I'm thinking there is no telling what might be loose elsewhere in that drivetrain. But he said it would be best for me to drive the car some more to try to be able to recreate the problem. It's going to be a rather large expense pulling the drivetrain out to perhaps not find a smoking gun, or else the problem is being caused by something else entirely that would be a LOT cheaper to fix. He wants me to try to be able to make the noise happen on demand so he can more easily trouble shoot the problem.
Makes sense, I guess. I'm just worried about either breaking down along the road, or even whatever is causing that noise possibly causing even more damage to something. But yeah, I realize this is probably the best thing to do.
Need to get out of this funk I am in about even driving the car and just forge ahead.... But this is a SERIOUS downer to my life right now.... Connie's feeling the strain as well. She is still supporting my keeping the car and getting it fixed, but I can tell it is wearing on her.
Didn't take out the car since storms have been flitting all around here. Not that I am getting any rain HERE on the property, of course, but just all AROUND us.
Probably more than I would need if I decide to do this drivetrain stuff in my garage, but I tend to over spec things a bit anyway.
I was over in the garage today and decided to put on the set of Elite Engineering frame rocker rails that I've had sitting on the workbench since right after my C5Z first went into the shop. My elbow didn't give me too much trouble, but I did favor it a bit, just in case. Not that this required any real wrenching. But anyway, now I can pull the car onto the lift and just set up the lift arms without worrying about the hockey pucks.
Well, that's just great. Connie and I went to a couple of stores, and they were ALL completely OUT of Excedrin. Now what am I going to do? :willy:
The guys over on CorvetteForum say I am going to have to pull my F.A.S.T. intake manifold again to pull the drivetrain. I hate to doubt anyone, but isn't there a way to get around this?
The reason I even ask is because when Aaron Scott found a washer in my #7 piston, he swore that he never had my intake manifold off up to that time, which was six (6) months after the car was towed to him. So he claims there was no way that washer could have gotten in there on his watch.
Well, he pulled the drive train in that time frame to send the transmission and differential to RPM Transmissions, and also replaced the clutch. I checked back in my records in this thread and the drivetrain was removed and shipped approximately 10/21/10 to RPM. By 11/17/10 the transmission and differential were back from RPM and installed in my car. It wasn't until 03/18/11 that Aaron claimed my engine blew a head gasket, which he thought may have had something to do with the washer found to have bounced around in that cylinder, damaging the piston. The engine was pulled then, by the way, and not from the bottom, but from the top out through the engine compartment.
So if Aaron says he never pulled off the intake manifold prior to the "head gasket" problem and subsequent engine pull, then how DID he extract the drivetrain to be sent to RPM, and also replace the clutch without doing so? Is this telling me that it is POSSIBLE to do?
BTW, I looked over the situation, and it appears to me that possibly the engine COULD have been tilted back without impacting the firewall except for the fact that the old MAP sensor is still back there, and directly underneath that is a hose line that I think is for the air conditioning. That appears to be the limiting factor. That MAP sensor will hit against that hose as it is RIGHT underneath it. I don't think I can move it any, but honestly, can I just cut off the electrical end of it, leaving the vacuum end still sealed in the manifold itself? I really REALLY don't want to pull of the intake again. I guess I'm just scared to death that something else will break or get screwed up. Too much bad mojo going on here....
Anyone got any thoughts on this? I'm really bummed out about this snowballing job doing this drivetrain thing. Not that I'm going to jump right in NOW and do it, but I really have my doubts that my driving the car is going to turn up any sort of miracle indicating that I will be able to dodge this bullet.
I can feel your frustration and concern about what else might be about to happen with this car. Sometimes I think you just have to fix what you can see and try it and see if it improves the situation. Something I remind myself about with my car if I start to sense something is not right but can't put my finger on it is this.
Worry is like a rocking chair
It gives you something to do
But you don't go anywhere.
Just wondering if after you tightened that bolt did it change anything in the noise you hear.
Do you mean the loose bolt I found on the bell housing? Heck, it's not tight as I couldn't get a tool on it. I just finger tightened it enough to be a little snug. And I haven't had the car out since I first heard that noise, but the noise didn't sound like that loose bell housing bolt could have been causing it. But heck, if other bolts there that I can't even see are loose, I guess that if the bell housing were flexing and causing a misalignment of the drive shaft in the clutch and pilot bearing, I suppose that could make some noise.
But I guess that is a long shot. Since the bell housing is aluminum, I would guess that multiple bolts being loose would cause stress on the ones that ARE tightened at the bottom and crack the bell housing. At this point I really can't rule out anything....
My elbow is starting to feel somewhat better, so the longer I delay aggravating it, I'm guessing the faster it will heal. So I'm really not in any hurry to do this quite yet.
I was talking to a fellow today who has been building high performance cars for over 20 years. I mentioned your problem with your clutch and the noise you hear. He said he had a Chevelle that did something similar. He said that it's problem was the bell housing moving under torque from the bolts not being evenly torqued causing the drive line to not be in line. Thought I would pass this on to you. Hope all you have to do is re tighten the bell housing.
Do you mean the loose bolt I found on the bell housing? Heck, it's not tight as I couldn't get a tool on it. I just finger tightened it enough to be a little snug.
I would assume with the proper amount and proper combination of extensions and wobbles, that the bolt *should* be able to be tightened. it will be trial and error on the socket size (shallow vs deep well) and then the different combinations of where to use a wobble and what extensions to use where to be able to tighten down the bolt.
I'm not saying it can be done, but I wouldn't rule the above out.
I would assume with the proper amount and proper combination of extensions and wobbles, that the bolt *should* be able to be tightened. it will be trial and error on the socket size (shallow vs deep well) and then the different combinations of where to use a wobble and what extensions to use where to be able to tighten down the bolt.
I'm not saying it can be done, but I wouldn't rule the above out.
Sometimes I find it easier to stand back and sight down a long extension to see if there is a path it can go through to get to the bolt. Up close is like not being able to see the forest for the trees. With that in mind it may be possible to get to all the bell housing bolts. As already said you may have to empty the tool box to get the right combination of tools.
Man, that would be GREAT if that is all this is. I don't have any wobble extensions, so I'll have to get some. Still, all said and done, I might not really be able to get to the bolts without removing at least the headers and the tunnel plate. I looked at some spring wound flexible socket extensions, but they don't appear to be able to deliver more than a foot pound or three of torque.
Well, this is a glimmer of hope.............. Thanks!
Man, that would be GREAT if that is all this is. I don't have any wobble extensions, so I'll have to get some. Still, all said and done, I might not really be able to get to the bolts without removing at least the headers and the tunnel plate. I looked at some spring wound flexible socket extensions, but they don't appear to be able to deliver more than a foot pound or three of torque.
Well, this is a glimmer of hope.............. Thanks!
If you are buying extensions get one that is 24" and one that is 36". I wish I had a 36" for my tool box because I often am adding a 12" to my 23" extension to get to something.
